Will/Trust- Florida/Devisee - Inconceivable!

[ncjourneyman]

What is the name of your state? Probate in Florida / Live in NC
Mother Deceased - December 2004 - Rest Home - 97yrs. old
Estate value > $2M
NO NOTIFICATION OF ANYKIND/ANYTHING
Two Probate files show up filed "Ex Parte" to Judge
consisting of Will and Appointment of Personal Rep - March 2005
NO PROBATE DOCUMENTS copied to me.

FIND Will/Petition to Appoint PR through Clerk of Court - online database.

WILL- statement of the existence of a Revocable Trust set up in 1991.
NO TRUST INFORMATION
Appointment of the deceased Tax Representative/Friend as Personal Rep.
NO other beneficiaries/devisees listed by name
Notice of Endowment to College announced on Internet - January 2005
Petition to Administer Estate - March 2005 - JULY 2005
NO PROBATE COURT FILED COPIES TO SURVIVING CHILDREN.
NO COMMUNICATION FROM PR OR ATTORNEY FOR PR/ESTATE

RECEIVE PACKET FROM ATTORNEY FOR PR - July 21, 2005
Includes: cover Letter of Introduction*: duel addressed to both surviving children both address all correct except the actual street name.
both street names (only) grossly (purposely) in error: i.e.,
should be "Mill Run" turns out "Mile Run" for one, the other,
should be "Well Road" turns out "Woll Road". All other numbers
and names all perfectly correct. (just intended delay tactics!)
Packet includes: (1) introductory cover letter (above), (2) Letter of
Administration (already had one from clerk of court), (3) Notice of
Administration (already had one from clerk of court), (4) Petition of
Discharge/FULL WAIVER**- signed by PR but not by Attorney for PR.,
(5) Schedule of Distribution - of probate Estate Assets only - all
assets are transfered back into the Revocable Trust ~ $160K. Estate
Administration Costs ~$20K. OF COURSE - No TRUST information.

*cover letter quotes: "Under (deceased) Will her Trust receives all
of the assets of the Estate not already conveyed to her Trust, and
then, after her death, the two of you are equal beneficiaries under
the Trust. (PR) is the appointed Trustee under your Mother's Trust.
Thirty days after you receipt of this information, if we have not
received any objections from you, we will file the Petition of
Discharge (requesting FULL WAIVER, (note: **again completely
illiminate any remaining rights of accounting/accountability).
AFTER the Order of Discharge has been issued by the Court(Ex Parte),
(PR) and I will contact you to effectuate the distribution of Trust."

Question: 1) is this standard fare for Florida Probate?
2) why has communication to the Judge in the matter
of this case been "reserved" just between these
two and him?? No objections / No Motions to Deny, etc.?
3) This attorney for the PR and the PR have already
admitted / acknowledged via cover letter that my sister
and I are "equal beneficiaries under the Trust".
WHERE IS ALL THE PAPERWORK, DISTRIBUTION,
CODICILES, DEFINITIONS, NOTIFICATIONS etc.
due from the date of March 3, 2005????
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
4) Especially in this case, is it legal to demand
release of all fiduciary responsibility from Personal
Representative, the Attorney for the Personal
Representative, and the Court (Judge: for that
matter) and only then be "awarded" with "something"
after having already waived any rights to know
the specifics of anything????? Just go away,
shut up, and be happy!!

I invite any and all responses to my rather lengthy
situation, including and specifically responses from
FLORIDA!

thank you for your time!
ncjourneyman

 

[BlondiePB]

What is the name of your state? Probate in Florida / Live in NC
Mother Deceased - December 2004 - Rest Home - 97yrs. old
Estate value > $2M
NO NOTIFICATION OF ANYKIND/ANYTHING
Two Probate files show up filed "Ex Parte" to Judge
consisting of Will and Appointment of Personal Rep - March 2005
NO PROBATE DOCUMENTS copied to me.

FIND Will/Petition to Appoint PR through Clerk of Court - online database.

WILL- statement of the existence of a Revocable Trust set up in 1991.
NO TRUST INFORMATION
Appointment of the deceased Tax Representative/Friend as Personal Rep.
NO other beneficiaries/devisees listed by name
Notice of Endowment to College announced on Internet - January 2005
Petition to Administer Estate - March 2005 - JULY 2005
NO PROBATE COURT FILED COPIES TO SURVIVING CHILDREN.
NO COMMUNICATION FROM PR OR ATTORNEY FOR PR/ESTATE

RECEIVE PACKET FROM ATTORNEY FOR PR - July 21, 2005
Includes: cover Letter of Introduction*: duel addressed to both surviving children both address all correct except the actual street name.
both street names (only) grossly (purposely) in error: i.e.,
should be "Mill Run" turns out "Mile Run" for one, the other,
should be "Well Road" turns out "Woll Road". All other numbers
and names all perfectly correct. (just intended delay tactics!)
Packet includes: (1) introductory cover letter (above), (2) Letter of
Administration (already had one from clerk of court), (3) Notice of
Administration (already had one from clerk of court), (4) Petition of
Discharge/FULL WAIVER**- signed by PR but not by Attorney for PR.,
(5) Schedule of Distribution - of probate Estate Assets only - all
assets are transfered back into the Revocable Trust ~ $160K. Estate
Administration Costs ~$20K. OF COURSE - No TRUST information.

*cover letter quotes: "Under (deceased) Will her Trust receives all
of the assets of the Estate not already conveyed to her Trust, and
then, after her death, the two of you are equal beneficiaries under
the Trust. (PR) is the appointed Trustee under your Mother's Trust.
Thirty days after you receipt of this information, if we have not
received any objections from you, we will file the Petition of
Discharge (requesting FULL WAIVER, (note: **again completely
illiminate any remaining rights of accounting/accountability).
AFTER the Order of Discharge has been issued by the Court(Ex Parte),
(PR) and I will contact you to effectuate the distribution of Trust."

Question: 1) is this standard fare for Florida Probate?
2) why has communication to the Judge in the matter
of this case been "reserved" just between these
two and him?? No objections / No Motions to Deny, etc.?
3) This attorney for the PR and the PR have already
admitted / acknowledged via cover letter that my sister
and I are "equal beneficiaries under the Trust".
WHERE IS ALL THE PAPERWORK, DISTRIBUTION,
CODICILES, DEFINITIONS, NOTIFICATIONS etc.
due from the date of March 3, 2005????
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY:
4) Especially in this case, is it legal to demand
release of all fiduciary responsibility from Personal
Representative, the Attorney for the Personal
Representative, and the Court (Judge: for that
matter) and only then be "awarded" with "something"
after having already waived any rights to know
the specifics of anything????? Just go away,
shut up, and be happy!!

I invite any and all responses to my rather lengthy
situation, including and specifically responses from
FLORIDA!

thank you for your time!
ncjourneyman

FL state statutes for Estates and Trusts can be found at this link www.flsenate.gov/statutes. You will find the % of Personal Representative fee, etc. in the statutes. If I recall correctly, due to the size of the estate $160,000.00 sounds about right.

Perhaps someone else will come along and read your entire post. From what I did read, it would be prudent for you to hire your own probate/trust attorney in the county where probate is occurring. Though you can find things on-line regarding the probate case, there are very few documents you will be able to view. You must call the court house and make arrangements for the file to be copied and sent to you for a small fee.

 

[ncjourneyman]

BlondiePB - thanks for you interest and advice

Thanks
ncjourneyman

 

[Dandy Don]

How much is the endowment left to the college?

Although you have been treated somewhat shabbily by the personal representative, you must understand that the personal representative and the trustee are very busy managing the affairs of the probate and the trust (these are 2 separate actions) and PR is not yet in the position of being able to answer your question of how much you are going to get until the taxes and other administrative costs have been computed and deducted.

The reason you were not notified about the will is that there are no assets in the will, thus no reason for you to be overly concerned about this. It was probated only as a technicality/formality because a trust is also involved.

The probate is a public matter--the trust is a private matter.

All you need to do is sit back and wait to receive your check, since the PR has already told you they will be soon contacting you to effectuate distribution of the trust, and you will most likely be receiving your documentation at that time.

After you receive your check and documentation, if you have further unanswered questions, then you will need to consult with a local trust attorney. At th is present date it does not look as if you need the services of an attorney yet. Start planning on what you are going to spend your money on!

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

 

[ncjourneyman]

To DandyDon

Thank you for your advice. Not impatient for money. Just totally fed
up with Probate/Trust statute time lines and specification being "thumbed"
by court representatives, lawyers, trustees, etc.
ncjourneyman

 

[BlondiePB]

Just totally fed up with Probate/Trust statute time lines and specification being "thumbed" by court representatives, lawyers, trustees, etc.
ncjourneyman

That's because you are an heir/beneficiary, not the PR or trustee. The attorney works for the PR/trustee. If you want answers, you must hire your own attorney who can also review the papers you receive and answer your questions regarding the papers. Should you do hire your own attorney, pay him/her by the hour rather than % of the trust.

FYI, the probate division is a lot slower in the summer in FL.

 

[ncjourneyman]

Curious response-interesting spin

That's because you are an heir/beneficiary, not the PR or trustee. The attorney works for the PR/trustee. If you want answers, you must hire your own attorney who can also review the papers you receive and answer your questions regarding the papers. Should you do hire your own attorney, pay him/her by the hour rather than % of the trust.

FYI, the probate division is a lot slower in the summer in FL.

Original Post : Florida Trust - Inconceivable!

Response: I was under the apparently misguided impression that the
statement that "the attorney for the Trustee and the attorney for the
trust"(same person) means that the attorney for the Trust has the fiduciary/legal responsibility to "enforce" his client (Trustee) to act
within the parameters of the Florida Trust laws which this attorney by
oath and profession is sworn to uphold. You suggest that this same
attorney (for the Trust) can (1) disregard any or all beneficiary statutory
rights under those Florida Trust Laws, (2) charge legal fees to the
Trust,(3) allow the Trustee to charge fees to the Trust, and then
(4) require beneficiaries under that Trust to hire, for addition fees,
a separate attorney "to guard the fox that's guarding the chickens".
Gee! I wonder if the Fed's see it that way, or for that matter, the
Florida Attorney General. Someone of import must have a more
circumspect view than that. We shall see.
ncjourneyman

 

[ncjourneyman]

To Dandy Don - Florida Trust - Inconceivable

2nd Inquiry - Florida Trust - Inconceivable

How much is the endowment left to the college?

Response: Remember, I have received no information/documentation
from the Trustee. Why do you ask?
----------------------------------
[Dandy Don]:
All you need to do is sit back and wait to receive your check, since the PR has already told you they will be soon contacting you to effectuate distribution of the trust, and you will most likely be receiving your documentation at that time.

After you receive your check and documentation, if you have further unanswered questions, then you will need to consult with a local trust attorney. At th is present date it does not look as if you need the services of an attorney yet. Start planning on what you are going to spend your money on!

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])

_____________________________________________________________

2nd Inquiry to Dandy Don:Florida Trust
Please advise of appropriate contact:
1) response to Trust attorney solicitation of questions. - Done
2) Trust attorney on two-week vacation. - Verified
3) Certified copy of same letter (response to attorney) to Trustee.
Contains formal request for Trust Instrument and interim accounting.-Done
4) return receipt certification not forth coming.
5) It is now apparent, that the Trustee has scheduled the vacation time
of the Trust Attorney, to "fly under the radar screen" to be in personal
contact with my sister, i.e., to travel (fly) to Charlotte, NC., to attend
a special "family" meeting with she and her side of the family, at the
expense of time and travel charged to the Trust. It has been stated
by this Trust Attorney, that me and my sister are "equal beneficiaries
under the Trust". However: this covert meeting has neither been
announced to me nor any attempt to include nor inform me of the facts
to be relayed at this meeting. Remembering: the sister is the testator's
first successor Trustee and her son, the second alternative Trustee.
This hardly describes fair and equal treatment and muddies the attorney's
statement of "the Trustee and I will effectuate the trust within 20-30
days from 20 July 2005." This is the same time frame that all the sister's
family is to meet in Charlotte.....how convenient..the ole "conquer the
divided" routine. No telling what "this sister" will sign away. Can
nothing stop this illegal gerimandering, manipulation, and fraud!

I am relaying, via certified mail, this complaint (without editorializations)
to: (a) the other beneficiary (sister)
(b) the Trustee
(c) the Attorney for the Trustee
(d) my Trust attorney (that lives and works in Putnam County, Fla.,
the same 5th Circuit District as the Trustee and Trust Attorney.)
Any other recommendations?

thanks for your attention and any assistance,
ncjourneyman

 

[anteater]

Any other recommendations?

Yes. Now that you have an attorney, look into finding a good therapist. Paranoia can sometimes be treated.

Maybe I missed it, but I have read through this tortured prose and the only gripe seems to be that nobody is holding your hand and kissing your behind.