Petty Theft

[Mom o'stupidkid]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

My 18 year old son stole a bottle of liquor from a local grocery. He was caught outside the store and the bottle was returned. He was arrested and given a ticket that it is a petty theft misdemeanor/charge. His court date is set for next month. What kind of plea can/should he make?

Yesterday, he received a letter from an attorney stating that he needs to pay $325 for a civil suit case that has not yet been filed by the grocery company. It threatened him with a lawsuit which could result in even more attorney fees and court costs if he didn't pay the money or make arrangements within 20 days.

Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

It seems to me that this small theft (though it is still shameful and illegal) should be small claims activity. How much monetary damages can they legally ask for?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

A: Yes; one lawyer can do both the civil and the criminal case.


Q: It seems to me that this small theft (though it is still shameful and illegal) should be small claims activity. How much monetary damages can they legally ask for?

A: The value of the item could've been one cent; that is totally irrelevant. What is important is that he stole something. This causes a large loss to the store owner.

 

[Mom o'stupidkid]

Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

We refuse to help him in this situation pay for the stupid mistake he made. Can he get a court appointed lawyer? We have never had any problem like this before (we are operating on TV law- how stupid is that?)

 

[seniorjudge]

Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

We refuse to help him in this situation pay for the stupid mistake he made. Can he get a court appointed lawyer? We have never had any problem like this before (we are operating on TV law- how stupid is that?)

Then tell him good luck, keep in touch, and change the locks.

 

[CdwJava]

Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

We refuse to help him in this situation pay for the stupid mistake he made. Can he get a court appointed lawyer? We have never had any problem like this before (we are operating on TV law- how stupid is that?)

The civil penalty is provided for under the law and will be in addition to any penalty he might have to pay as a result of his criminal case. So, he could end up paying a fine and restitution as well as this civil assessment (which can be as high as $500). Most requests I have seen are between $250 and $350.

Does he NEED an attorney? No. However, having one for the criminal matter is a good idea. The assessment could be paid without one, but he can always pay an attorney at least that much to help him pay it.

Now, will YOU have to pay for his attorney? That depends. He will have to find out if he qualifies for a public defender or not. If he lives at home and you claim him on your taxes, he is likely not going to qualify for a public defender unless you are destitute. He likely won't know about this until arraignment (the first court date where he will enter a plea and ask for counsel if he cannot afford it himself).

- Carl

 

[Mom o'stupidkid]

He is 18 and living at home- supposedly smart enough to be a college student (he has finished one year). He has always been very impulsive, but never before -that we know of- criminal. No tickets, not ditching school- nothing. This whole thing is so stupid and embarrassing.

Anyway, yes, we claimed him as a dependent on our 2007 taxes. I am a full time teacher and my hubby (his dad) is a substitute teacher. Our son has some money (around $1400) in his bank account (he did earn it himself working during his junior and sr year of high school). It is vital that he get the least charge possible because he is in the ARMY ROTC program at college. Who knows what will happen to him when they find he has a criminal record.

Ok so this is our plan...
1) He calls local lawyers from the phone book- ones that will consult for free at first.
2) He discusses details about his case and asks about fees (some claim they do flat fees in their ads- others say he may not have to go to court)

Then what?

 

[Mom o'stupidkid]

He found a lawyer with whom he meets tomorrow. The kid only called one lawyer and apparently talked directly to him on the phone (I cannot believe that). The guy thinks they can get the judge to be lenient since it is a first offense. What kinds of fees can he expect to pay (we are in a suburb of LA)?

We are not going to go with him because we think he needs to grow up and deal with the consequences of his actions....Is this a mistake?

 

[CourtClerk]

He found a lawyer with whom he meets tomorrow. The kid only called one lawyer and apparently talked directly to him on the phone (I cannot believe that). The guy thinks they can get the judge to be lenient since it is a first offense. What kinds of fees can he expect to pay (we are in a suburb of LA)?

A few hundred dollars in court fees and fines. He's looking at probation also. He's not going to jail on his first offense. He'll also have to pay his attorney. All of this... EVERY PENNY should come out of this $1400. What's left should go towards alcohol treatment. He's obviously drinking if he's stealing alcohol. Your kid has a drinking problem or is about to develop one.

We are not going to go with him because we think he needs to grow up and deal with the consequences of his actions....Is this a mistake?

GOOD FOR YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND!!!! Believe me, stay home. All too often parents go to court with their kids, the kids depend on their parents to help them bail them out, then you'll be repeating this in a year or two.

 

[Mom o'stupidkid]

OK- so he went to court and met with his lawyer, who told him to plead not guilty. So they have another court date in mid september. The thing is..he did steal it. Why would he be not guilty? I just don't get it. He paid $700 to the legal firm. Will he go to trial (like with a jury)?

 

[Antigone*]

What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)? California

My 18 year old son stole a bottle of liquor from a local grocery. He was caught outside the store and the bottle was returned. He was arrested and given a ticket that it is a petty theft misdemeanor/charge. His court date is set for next month. What kind of plea can/should he make?

Yesterday, he received a letter from an attorney stating that he needs to pay $325 for a civil suit case that has not yet been filed by the grocery company. It threatened him with a lawsuit which could result in even more attorney fees and court costs if he didn't pay the money or make arrangements within 20 days.

Does he need a lawyer for either of these situations?

It seems to me that this small theft (though it is still shameful and illegal) should be small claims activity. How much monetary damages can they legally ask for?What is the name of your state (only U.S. law)?

This is an all-to-common post, so I've just copied and pasted parts of an orginal post.

As a parent I feel for you, having said that we all know that accountability is a difficult lesson to teach and you have a great opportunity here to teach it. Ask your no-longer-a-child child to present himself, make the payment and offer an apology. Why spend the money on attorneys and going to court if he actually committed the petty theft.

I've made it very clear to my teenager (she and her friends love the mall) that if I ever get a phone call from the police to come pick her up because either she or her friends have done something wrong, that I will tell the officer to have her make herself at home. If she wants to behave like a thug, she can experience a thug life behind bars until I'm good and ready to come get her. It is a great thing to see that you are holding him accountable for his actions. Far to many of us parents are too chicken to let our kids learn how to handle themselves.

This may not be the "legal advice" you are seeking here but if we teach our children character, then maybe, just maybe legal advice would not be a necessity.

Carl had this advice and I just loved it!!!
Originally Posted by CdwJava

Perhaps its time to take away articles of hers as collateral ... phone, computer, radio, TV, iPod, etc. When she has paid you back, you can return these items to you one at a time - she can, in essence, "buy them back" from you like a Pawn Shop.

- Carl

I told put that advice in my tool box. Happy to say that I haven't needed it but thanks any way Carl.

 

[garrula lingua]

Well, I've seen hundreds of these cases, and I respectfully disagree with y'all

A theft conviction follows these dummies into college - no federal student aid, no after-school job (usually), no teaching credential, no law enforcement job; no graduate school, potential employers can see the theft conviction, & on & on & on. Licensing for jobs such as lawyers, nurses, etc. can be a problem.

With 18 year old first offenders, the defense attorney should be a good negotiator.
Parents coming to court DID help; school transcripts helped. It convinced a Prosecutor to do their own 'Prosecutor Diversion' and treat this kid differently than the one with a long juvie record and a future in county jail and prison.

A petty theft under $50 can be reduced by the Prosecutor [/B (only) ]to an infraction instead of a misdemeanor.
It needs a Prosecutor who will fashion a unique punishment for these young people without destroying their future (give them a chance). A good offer by a defense atty to the Prosecutor would be for yoyo to do an enormous amount of hours of CalTrans (cleaning up the freeways) or other community service. After completing the comm serv & maybe five AA meetings, show proof to the Prosecutor who will reduce the charge to an infraction or dismiss the case.
The decision to reduce or dismiss is the Prosecutor's.
I do think the parents need to help yoyo - the conviction is too crippling.
'Beer runs' and similar stupid crimes should not be lumped with habitual theft/criminal activity.

Normally, I'd say let them deal with the mess they created, but this result is too Draconian.
Justice should be the goal, and court is not the right learning environment for stupid acts - it's for criminals.
Mom, go to court with your kid. That atty should have spoken with the Prosecutor at the first appearance and come to some agreement. The Prosecutor may not want to help because it was booze and the kid is under-age (just the reason they make 'beer runs' - they can't buy it).
If it were my kid, I'd speak with the Prosecutor and just say you want to see your kid punished, but not marred for life & can the charge be changed if he does a ton of community service and other punishments the Prosecutor decides.
I would try to get this charge changed to
1. a dismissal
2. an infraction such as 'loud noise'
3. a non-theft misdemeanor, such as 'disturbing the peace' (loud music)

The consequences are too serious to let this kid muddle through on his own.
I see it as pulling your kid away from a speeding car.

 

[Antigone*]

Well, I've seen hundreds of these cases, and I respectfully disagree with y'all

A theft conviction follows these dummies into college - no federal student aid, no after-school job (usually), no teaching credential, no law enforcement job; no graduate school, potential employers can see the theft conviction, & on & on & on. Licensing for jobs such as lawyers, nurses, etc. can be a problem.

Hello garrula lingua,

Thank you for opening my eyes to another point of view - one I have not shared with my daughters. Yoo too have given me a new tool for my tool box along with me changing my course of action (slightly) if I ever so need to.

I will make it a point to have a discussion with my girls about the life-long consequences something like this could have.

 

[Peligroso27]

A theft conviction follows these dummies into college - no federal student aid, no after-school job (usually), no teaching credential, no law enforcement job; no graduate school, potential employers can see the theft conviction, & on & on & on. Licensing for jobs such as lawyers, nurses, etc. can be a problem.

Wrong about Federal Student Aid,
Who is eligible to receive Federal Student Aid?

To receive federal student aid, you must meet certain requirements. You must:

Be a U.S. citizen or eligible non-citizen
Have a valid Social Security Number (unless you’re from the Republic of the Marshall Islands, the Federated States of Micronesia, or the Republic of Palau).
Register with Selective Service if you are male and 18 to 25 years of age (go to Selective Service System: Welcome for more information).
Have a high school diploma or a General Education Development (GED) Certificate or pass an exam approved by the U.S. Department of Education.
Be enrolled or accepted for enrollment as a regular student working toward a degree or certificate in an eligible program at a school that participates in the federal student aid programs.
Not have a drug conviction for an offense that occurred while you were receiving federal student aid (such as grants, loans, or work-study)
Also:

You must not owe a refund on a federal grant or be in default on a federal student loan.
You must demostrate financial need (except for unsubsidized Stafford Loans).

 

[Mom o'stupidkid]

Thanks for the eye opening. I may not be able to appear in court. How do I find out who the prosecutor is? I can certainly write a strong letter to both the prosecutor/judge and to the defense atty. I agree that stupid mistakes can cause heartache throughout their life, but he is soooo hard headed- he HAS to be punished in some serious way to learn from his mistakes. He has been that way from the womb. Tons of hours of community service might do the trick- but then he may still be lumped in with (and influenced by) habitual offenders.

Obviously, he has some redeeming values- he did well enough in high school to be accepted into our local 4 year university. He has held down a couple of jobs when he was younger, he even was a boy scout for many years (never made it to Eagle), so his past is in his favor. Perhaps they can see beyond the impulsive challenge to steal. Perhaps they can see some of the other things about him that are positive- but I guess I will have to point it out to the defense atty and let him work the judge or prosecutor.

 

[seniorjudge]

Q: How do I find out who the prosecutor is?

A: The prosecutor MAY be assigned five minutes before the appearance. Thus, you have to be in court to find out for sure.




Q: I can certainly write a strong letter to both the prosecutor/judge and to the defense atty.

A: Do not write anything to the judge.