excessive overtime

What is the name of your state? Missouri

Just a few questions.

My girlfriend works for a company that constantly requires her to work overtime. The management is usually pretty good about notifying people about the OT, but threatens disciplinary action for non-compliance for any reason. The management has gone so far as to imply that employees should not make personal plans for their non-scheduled work time, and that if they do, the employee should notify management of those plans.

Is this legal? Is this an invasion of privacy? Do employers have the right to tell employees what they can and cannot do during their off time?

Thanks for any suggestions.

Tim

uh does she want her job?

If NOT i could use all the hours she has, PLUS her normal 40 hours....

see it aint hard to replace her!

thanks reddenbakker. very helpful. maybe not being allowed to make plans to attend your son's soccer game or visit your parents on saturdays because the Company "might" require overtime, would cause you to change your tune.

Yes, the employer can require their employees to work as much overtime as they dictate. If she's non-exempt, as long as they pay her OT as required under the law, it's perfectly legal.

No, an employer can't dictate what ee's can and cannot do off the job (with a few exceptions) but they aren't doing that. They're just making it difficult for their ee's to plan and have much of a pesonal life. If your girlfriend has family plans that are important, sounds like she should let management know of those occasions so that hopefully they will excuse her from any OT requirements that are scheduled.

The bottom line is that if an individual doesn't care for the terms of their employment, he/she is always free to find a new job.

so what your saying is that terms of employment are defined by the employer at their convenience?

the employer has a business to run and it needs employees.

So here is the problem, if the employers Busy season is right now, then all hands must be able to work, and right now is very very busy time for a lot of people who's main product is mostly sold at xmas time.

So to have an unreliable employee at the most important time of the year for this business, would be grounds to be fired.

This is quite different from having a second job or a home based business, such as myself I am a DJ, so the employer could NOT legally fire me if I had signed contracts to DJ peoples weddings.

But personal time is not always your time.

so those are the questions which need to be answered, the circumstances surrounding this policy, is it critcal to the business for the employer to be this demanding?
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Lots of reasons or speculation, but as long as they pay the OT wages, she should shut up, and rake in the cash because.....

SHE MAY NOT GET THIS WONDERFUL PAY DOWN HER DEBT OPPORTUNITY AGAIN, FOR A LONG LONG TIME!!!!

You think your primary employer can't fire you if you have a contract to provide DJ services? Think again, buster.

If you don't show up for work at your primary employment because you are off providing DJ services as part of your second job, a signed contract to DJ someone's wedding doesn't mean diddly to your primary employer.

"so what your saying is that terms of employment are defined by the employer at their convenience?" Yes, that is exactly what I am saying. If an employee doesn't like the terms of employment, they are free to seek more agreeable terms elsewhere. Employers who find they cannot hire or retain good employees because their requirements put them at a disadvantage in the labor market are free to go out of business or change their practices. It's called the free enterprise system

And reddenbakker is WAY off in left field if he thinks that having a second job, home based business or a signed contract to DJ someone's wedding provides an iota of protection if his primary employer chooses to terminate him because he refuses to work the schedule or OT they are requiring.

I heard companies use the term "reasonable overtime" which is silly because even unions have not been able to define "reasonable". Or they go the otherway and hire more part time people instead of paying overtime. so really it is a blessing (the overtime) in disguise. Count your blessings, I would love to be able to work. this comp stuff ain't no fun. I missed many a Christmas morning (about 17 out of 20)and Christmas eve. New Years, ect... plowing snow and missing those things with the kids. So I am not without compassion. is the glass half full or half empty?

It is true the primary employer can fire me, but since my job IS M-F, The employer could be sued, and most importantly i would be able to collect unemployment since the employer has put me into a legal quandry on my scheduled days off.

And lets face it i dont have a great paying weekday job, if i was making 50K during the week it would be stupid of me to do this but at less then 25K....

And any employer who is the least bit PROFESSIONAL, would agree to let me DJ a signed contract from months ago...or be sued for illegal termination....I would do it just for the publicity!

After all the employer would have a right to fire me if they wanted us to work weekends, and THEN i signed contracts to work all the next months weekends as a dj....

see the difference?

I think a judge would side with who's contract was signed First for the saturday work, and in this case it would be as a dj.

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cbg said:

You think your primary employer can't fire you if you have a contract to provide DJ services? Think again, buster.

If you don't show up for work at your primary employment because you are off providing DJ services as part of your second job, a signed contract to DJ someone's wedding doesn't mean diddly to your primary employer.

Click to expand...

Your post made it sound as if you thought the contract would protect you if you scheduled a contract to DJ while you were supposed to be at your other job.

If you only DJ on weekends and your regular job is Monday-Friday then the only problem I could see is if the DJ job was getting in the way of your performing youf M-F duties adequetly; i.e., making mistakes because you'd been up till 2 the night before; making phone calls to do with your DJ job while at work M-F etc.

From what i gather from Beth, all your primary employer has to do is decide that your "2nd job" interferes with your primary M-F job, and require that you quit the 2nd job or be terminated. That's my take on it anyway. You mention that weekends are "scheduled off time,"....the same is true in my scenario. According to Beth, that doesn't prevent the employer from "claiming" this "off time" for their use. According to Beth, there is no such thing as "off time."

I would think that if the DJ contract was signed prior to employment, then it would have precedence, but i dont know for sure.

In my original post, I must say I find it rather flippant that the remedy so prevalant for this situation is "go find another job." With the lack of law protecting employees from this sort of thing, how is one to know which potential employer will or will not exploit or abuse it? Please don't hand me a line about "buyer beware" or anything linke that. I'm tired of being required to be omniscient.

"He didn't like to work overtime" is a great reference for a team player, don't you think?

Regarding the situation with my friend, during the interview and hiring process there is no mention of mandatory 2 hours OT per day, and 8 hours OT on Saturday, as needed. Basically, the employer wasn't providing an accurate description of the job. Many people have come and gone due to this policy. Married people with kids are told "your spouse should be able to pickup/take the kids," or, "maybe your spouse can find work that allows them to cover the kids," and assorted other ridiculous things. People are "written up" and "counseled" because they couldn't work OT due to weddings to attend, family illnesses and hospitalizations, even funerals. Its insane. I know, because i used to work there, and have personally heard these things said, and even been "written up and counseled" because my dad had a heart attack and I had to leave to go to the hospital and couldnt work the OT.

Needless to say, I left of my own accord.

Everybody still want the job?

My two cents.

We do not write the laws; we tell you what they say. Did you want us to tell you what the law says, or did you want sympathy?

damntim, you are misconstruing my remarks. Yes, if an employee cannot work the hours required for their job (whether it's full-time or part-time, whether it's their primary job or secondary job), the employer most likely will tell the employee they have to chose.

If redenbakker's employer wishes to accommodate his DJ and other contracts, that's great. Most agreements the employer makes don't constitute a contract. Plus they don't have a crystal ball that allows them to know that business conditions will never change and they will always be able to accommodate somebody's personal situation or outside job, such things are subject to change. If redenbakker's employer ever has to rescind their accommodation, I think he's greatly mistaken that he can sue them.

cbg: of course you didn't write the laws. I hope I didn't imply that I thought you had. If so, my apologies. I thank you for your replies and for keeping me on track. I was not seeking sympathy, I just don't feel that folks should assume overtime is always a great thing and that wanting or needing to attend to personal affairs outside "normal" working hours shouldn't constitute an infraction.

Beth: I'm sorry for miscontsruing your remarks. I was just trying to put it into terms folks could understand. As I understand it, when you hire on at a company, you are basically writing the company a blank check regarding the 'terms of employment.' This is the "at will" concept and works both ways. Nobody has a "crystal ball" and if either party's accomodations cannot be met, both are free to look elsewhere.

Thank you for your replies, and I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.

The information you've given me, along with what I've read in other posts, has already affected a positive change in the employment environment I've described. I think this is great, as that is what we were seeking to begin with. Give yourselves a pat on the back, and know that your efforts are worthwhile.

Thanks again, and keep up the good work.

Tim