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Former employer refusing to pay up

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Iamupset

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What is the name of your state? Illinois
I was recently employed as an account executive for a local manufacturing company. My compensation structure was a draw against commissions. The person I was reporting to made a habit of calling me "Inexperienced" in front of peers, and in one on one conversations. I have 12 years of experience in the industry but, at the time had minimum experience in a sales capacity. I was also lied to in regards to a potential client, was given an existing account list with either names, addresses, or phone numbers missing, estimates on my projects took at times, 3 to 4 days to complete resulting in loss of business.

After approx 4 months on the job, I felt that I could not succeed under the conditions at that company. I quickly accepted an offer with another company and resigned without notice. My employment was "At will". The former employer has been refusing to pay me for the two week period prior to my resignation. Claiming that I have left the company in a position of liabilty, and also stating that my resignation was "Unprofessional". The company even went as far as making the direct deposit into my bank account on the date that I was to be paid. They then went into my account later that day and reversed the deposit without my authorization. This could have put me in serious financial problems. If I did not check my account online 3 or 4 times that day, I would have just proceeded to cut checks for billls, assuming the money was there.

Either way, I understand that my pay structure was basically a loan from the company to cover living expenses, etc. This money was to basically be repaid through sales generated. But, I should be entitled to that money since I was representing the company to existing and prospective clients during the two week period prior to my resignation. I have filed a claim with the Dept. of Labor...The former employer has protested and I am currently waiting for the outcome from my rebuttal. I fear that this claim is not going to go far. Is there any other actions I can take?? What other routes can I go to get the money owed, and at this point, interest on that amount???

Someone out there, please help!!!!
 


Beth3

Senior Member
You've done exactly what I would have advised you to do - file a claim with the DOL. At this point, you need to be patient and let them rule.

The other possibility is to file a claim in small claims court but I think you should wait for the DOL ruling first.
 
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Iamupset

Guest
Thanks Beth3...So, are you saying that even though my salary structure was a draw against commissions rather that a straight salary, I am still entitled to that money? My former employer is stating that the sudden resignation and my salary structure is the reason they are not paying...Since that job was my first in a sales capacity, I am really uncertain on where the line is drawn on what's owed and what's not owed. The two weeks prior to my resignation is simply my opinion..I am treating it as if I were a salaried employee....Thanks.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I don't think Beth or anyone else here can say conclusively whether you are or are not entitled to anything; it will depend upon the commission agreement and your state law, in conjunction with each other. That's what the DOL will do - determine if you are owed it and if so, assist you in getting it. Resigning suddenly is not a valid reason not to pay wages and if you were paid either hourly or on salary they could not legally withhold wages for time already worked no matter how little notice you gave, but a commission draw is another matter altogether. Let the DOL handle it for now.
 
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Iamupset

Guest
Thanks cbg...Can you recommend a website or some kind of literature regarding pay structures? My biggest problem is, I am having a hard time determining whether I have a case or not. I have not been able to locate the exact meaning of "Draw against commissions". Obviously, my former employer did not fully explain it to me. And, I didn't think much of it at the time since I had to get back into the work force after being laid off from the job before that.

The other issue that I have is, is it not illegal for a person or company to enter another person's bank account and remove money without the owner's authorization? I find it hard to believe that I can't even nail that company on that. Regardless of whether they feel they owe me the money or not, where do they get off putting the money in there, then taking it out later the same day...This can't be legal. I was never contacted and told that it was going to happen. I discovered it on my own by checking on my account several times during the course of that day. I did that because I had a "Funny feeling" that it was going to happen. If it is legal for them to do that then, I may as well start making a living out of going in and out of people's accounts.

I apologize for the outburst. I just don't have the confidence that the Dept. of Labor is really going to do anything about this. All I've seen so far is a bunch of paper shuffling. I am an everyday Joe that makes an average amount of money and I don't think it is fully understood what kind of stress one goes through when two weeks pay is suddenly taken away from them. The fact that I resigned without notice is yes, unprofessional. But, my work history prior to this is sparkling. The reason why I did what I did was because of the way I was treated. Now, it seems as if I am getting punished because I made a decision to improve myself, my mental well being, and my and my loved ones happiness.
 

Beth3

Senior Member
1. There is no legal definition I know of for "draw against commission" or any other pay system terminology. It means what the employer wants it to mean or what the employer and employee agree it will mean. It's my understanding that that term is usually used to mean that the ee is paid a fixed salary that will be "justified" against his/ her commissions. That is often done when new commissioned sales people are just starting out and in a position where commissions are going to be non-existant at first, such as insurance sales, for example. Plus a draw against commission at least allows an individual to budget for some sort of regular monthly income.

2. Yes, it is legal for the employer to reverse an electronic deposit. We just did it here for an exempt employee who quit without notice and consequently was over paid.

3. The DOL has thousands of complaints they're handling at any given point in time. I'm afraid you're just going to have to be patient.
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
In the ordinary scheme of things, yes, it is illegal to go into someone else's bank account and take money out BUT an employer making direct deposits is permitted to reverse the EXACT amount of the deposit as long as it is done within a certain time frame - I believe but am not certain that it is 24 hours. They may not do anything except reverse the deposit they put in; they may not take more or less than the deposit itself, and they may not do even that outside of the very specific time frame permitted by law. As long as they did not reverse one penny more or less than the original deposit and as long as they did it within the time frame, whatever it is, that's permitted by law then it is legal.

My grasp of commission draw is very weak - compensation not being one of my stronger fields - so I will let someone else try to explain it to you. I just about understand how it operates but not well enough to explain it to someone else, if you follow me. Sorry, I'm not aware of any web sites that might help. If I come up with any I'll post them.

I can't help you with the strength of your case because I have not seen the commission/draw agreement, and as indicated in the paragraph above that's not really one of my strengths anyway. But I wouldn't lose faith in the DOL just yet. In my experience, they move slowly but they do move.

I'm going to preach for a minute if I may - if it's not all right you can skip the paragraph. I don't know what kind of treatment you were taking, but whatever it was, surely you could have stood two more weeks? I'm sure your new employer would have given you the time; most employers are quite prepared for their new employees to have to give notice. You could not be hurt by their unprofessional behavior any more, but your unprofessional behavior is now coming back to bite you. You might want to remember for the future that your own behavior, not someone else's, is what's going to ultimately have an affect on YOU. Don't think I don't understand about being in an unpleasant environment - I've been in work environments so poor that they almost drove me into professional therapy. But if you always behave with professionalism then the unprofessional ones don't have anything to come back at you with. Okay? End of sermon.
 
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Iamupset

Guest
Beth, I really appreciate your input but, I have to argue with your point number 2.

The deposit reversal for the employee at your firm is totally different. You stated that it was determined that the employee was over paid. Plus, he resigned without notice.

In my case, yes I did resign without notice but, the employment was at will and I signed a document that reflects that. I also was not over paid. I am seeking compensation for the two weeks prior to my resignation.

Bottom line is, and this may seem crazy but, if I do not get the money through the DOL, I will do whatever it takes to get that money. I will sue them, or whatever.

This company made my life miserable for 4 months and they cannot get away with that. Just because they think that they are this major corporation doesn't mean they can get away with messing with people's lifes.

The only satisfaction I have gotten out of this so far is, I found out the other day that the wonderful sales manager that gave me such a hard time was just let go after less than 1 year on the job.
 
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Iamupset

Guest
cbg,
I understand where you are coming from as far as me giving the two week notice. I do consider myself to be a professional human being, and would not go about doing what I did as "Habit". I developed such a dislike toward the situation that I felt the solution had to be, "Get out and get out fast".

Had I done the standard issue 2 week notice thing, I may not be going through this right now.

Anyway, I appreciate the talking to. I do have a lot of anger that is behind this and maybe I just have to realize that I am in a better situation now, and money can be replaced....

Thanks
 
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