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what can you do to try to proof wrongdoing?

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haditall

Guest
what can you do to try to prove wrong doing?

Florida - what recourse do you have when a estate attorney did not protect me - a beneficaries of the Estate and cost me my inheratance. I sued the Estate and settled for one tenth of the estate but I had to sign a release from me ever suing him. I don't know he was responsible for my loss at the time. IS there any recourse?
 
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Dandy Don

Senior Member
You have not provided enough details to make a complete evaluation.

(1) Was this estate attorney the official executor of the estate or just someone hired to advise the executor about how to handle probate?

(2) Just because you signed a release doesn't necessarily mean he is free of liability. If you have proof of wrongdoing he can still face legal charges.

(3) Is this estate still open or has probate closed?

You even admit yourself that you don't know for sure whether he was responsible for your loss. Please give an exact description of exactly what happened and how you "lost" money.
 
H

haditall

Guest
Dandy Don said:
You have not provided enough details to make a complete evaluation.

(1) Was this estate attorney the official executor of the estate or just someone hired to advise the executor about how to handle probate?

(2) Just because you signed a release doesn't necessarily mean he is free of liability. If you have proof of wrongdoing he can still face legal charges.

(3) Is this estate still open or has probate closed?

You even admit yourself that you don't know for sure whether he was responsible for your loss. Please give an exact description of exactly what happened and how you "lost" money.
 
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haditall

Guest
proving wrongdoing

IN this situation the Estate Attorney for the deceased is also Estate attorney.

Question: There were so many mistakes made in the Will that I wonder if some of them were even legal i.e Attorney established a llife insurance Irrevocable Will but made me the sole beneficiary however-in my father's divorce settlement with my mother he gave her his life insurance policies upon his death as part of the divorce decree. The attorney knew this as he gave me my mothers settlemetn agreement and original divorce decree from 1981. Doesn't a divorce decree superceede the Will in this case?

Titling of assets. Is it not the job of the Estate planner to make sure that the assets that are used in the WIll for disturibution to benefeciaries titled for change if they are forming a Trust for the client. If the Will is using a revocable Will and giving the assets to the trust for division of assets. Who is responsible for getting a list of assests, type of assets and account numbers etc?

WHere do I find what the laws are for the requirements for a Estate planner to help make a Will? DO they have obligations to the client and beneficaries-I imagine there must be some rules governing this so you can make sure that the deceased family is protected against Wills that are not drawn up properly -as in my case. Do you know where I find out the requirements of an Attorney Estate Planner and the same Lawyer made the Will?

Thank you,
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
You are barking up the wrong tree in trying to blame the estate attorney for what happened here--it's not his fault--it's the fault of the deceased, for not doing what he/she was supposed to do.

As far as the life insurance beneficiaries, the will can not take precedence over whoever the deceased specifically designated as beneficiaries on the life insurance policies--so that is what you need to be finding out--who did the deceased name as beneficiary, because that's who will get the money, and the deceased had the right to change his mind at any time about who he wanted to be beneficiary IF he/she submitted a beneficiary designation change form only--the change can not be made by will.

It is NOT the job of the estate planner to get title changes or lists of assets, type of assets or account numbers--yes, they should advise the client to do this, but it is the CLIENT's responsibility to get this done and to fund the trust.

There are no laws about an estate planner's obligations to the client and no legal requirements for estate planners--their services are considered a business service offered to a client.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 
H

haditall

Guest
wrongdoing

Thank you, Great clarification!
I was the benefeciary of all of the life insurances policies. My father was sole owner of the whole life policies. THey were paid off and he renamed me as the sole beneficiary. I have copies of each of the policies.

However, the trustee of my irrevocable life insurance trust was my step mother and she never notified me that I was the beneficiary of the trust until after he died. The estate attorney told me they my trust had to go to the Trust of the estate to pay for estate taxes.

They did this and that was never able to be changed. What now if anything-can I do? Can I do anything since probabate is over and I settled?
It gets morea nd more complicated with mistakes written in the Will and there are monies now coming in from Europe that the estate went after before probabte. The money was never collected until after the estate closed. Is that money estate money or just the widows money now?

Thanks,
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
Thank YOU for providing further details which more accurately explain the situation.

Do you mean to say that the estate attorney is also the official executor of the estate named by the will? If I were you, I would NOT let the executor or the estate attorney know about the incoming money (hold on to it as a negotiating tool for more bargaining power on your side), since you were wrongly and deceitfully cheated out of your money, as you suspected!! Approximately what date (month and year) did you turn the money over?

An irrevocable life insurance trust (ILIT) is used to hold a life policy outside of an estate in order to avoid income and estate taxes. Because the trust is a separate entity from the insured's estate, the life insurance is not a part of the net worth and therefore NOT subject to income tax. Therefore, the proper use of an ILIT will enable the heirs to receive the death benefit insurance policy monies FREE AND CLEAR of ESTATE AND INCOME TAXES. So, obviously if this estate attorney told you that your trust had to go to the trust of the estate to pay for taxes, then THIS WAS AN OUTRIGHT AND DELIBERATE LIE intended to put more money into their pockets in fees charged or from the trust. Any attorney knows that insurance monies are kept outside of probate. What was the name of the trust that had your money in it, and what was the name of the other trust with your father's name on it? (Send me that info in an e-mail to my e-mail address below, please.) It also looks like your stepmother might have been in conspiracy with the estate attorney if she didn't inform you that you were a beneficiary--this is also possibly a breach of her duty as a trustee, because legally she is supposed to notify you and give you a copy of the trust (DO YOU HAVE A COPY OF THE TRUST?).

Any CERTIFIED financial planner or CERTIFIED estate planner will give you supportive, backup opinions about how and ILIT is supposed to be handled, and I strongly suggest you start interviewing a few local trust attorneys so they can advise you on how to proceed to get your money back (don't tell them the name of the estate attorney who took advantage of you until you are assured that you can speak confidentially and find out whether they have had any business dealings with this man in the past). You also need to find out by looking at the estate documents whether this man was required to post an executor's bond or a trustee's bond (if he did, then it might be possible to get your money back by filing a claim with the bond insurance company). Maybe your trust attorney even has contacts with these types of planners and can do the research for you.

However, it does look as if you might need to get your own trust attorney to file a lawsuit against this man for breach of executor duty or breach of trustee duty or incompetence or fraud or any other charges that might apply. I believe the evidence will be strongly in your favor and that you have a 90% chance of winning your case, and after you get your check, please send me a cut for my superb advice!! It will be very easy for your attorney and your financial planner/estate planner to provide evidence and principles of law that what he suggested you to do is never done according to common-sense, reasonable principles. This unscrupulous attorney might even settle out of court when confronted with the threat of a lawsuit.

Good luck and congratulations for being strong enough to fight for what is rightfully yours!!

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 
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H

haditall

Guest
wrongdoing

Thank you for your encouraging and enlightening email. Okay-now I know where to start and what to look for. However, I did sign a settlement agreement with the estate (for a very small sum of the money). I filed a lawsuit against the Estate and resigned as Executer. At the first hearing _whether to admit this into court (The judge had to see if there was reason to overturn the WIll) My lawyer never showed up in court and it was thrown out. I settled because I lost my shot at fighting this in court. The Estate attorney MADE me sign a release saying I would not sue him -ever. I asked for a mutual release he said no.. I didn't want to sign that but he said that the settlement was contigent on me signing that release for him. I signed.. I was under great duress and was confused and lied to but had no proof except suspision until now. Can I still go after him even though I signed a release on the Estate and HIM?
Sorry to bother you. THis is a very complicated Estate because the players were all associated. The executer, the CPA and myself were all executers of the Estate. The widow and the CPA (along with the estate attorney) had been friends for 3 years. I live in WA they all live in the same small town. I never had a chance.
IF I ever saw any money from this I would surely cut you in!Why not ?I paid an attorney to look out for my interestl and he got 40% of the settlement - I Arranged! He did nothing except blow the case.

I would gladly give anything to the person that helped me.\

Thank you,
 

Dandy Don

Senior Member
Only your attorney can answer the question about whether you can go after him or not after reviewing the documents you signed. That is why I suggested you find out about the executor bond or trustee bond because that might be an alternate form of getting you paid without having to go through a lawsuit.

I think there is a good chance that the release you signed might have some loopholes that would allow you to ignore it--anyway you might find evidence to support charges that are not covered by the release.

Also will want to discuss with your attorney the possibility of having a background check done on this estate attorney to see if he has faced criminal charges in the past or charges from the state board by other dissatisfied clients to see if he might have been disqualified from doing work on this estate.

Attorney will also be subpoenaing the estate tax returns (federal and/or state tax returns) to see exactly how much was paid in estate taxes (I'll bet anything this estate had enough funds to be able to pay them without getting money from you).

You still haven't answered the questions that I am most interested in:

Was this estate attorney also the executor or was it someone else?
Did you ever receive a copy of the irrevocable life insurance trust?
How much money were you cheated out of?

Of course you will want to ask your attorney to review the probate file documents (if there was a will probated) at the county courthouse to see exactly how the estate was handled, but the trust documents will have to be furnished by having your attorney subpoena the trustee.

DANDY DON IN OKLAHOMA ([email protected])
 
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