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Witnessess at Trial

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ChoixDuJour

Guest
What is the name of your state? California

What is the name of your state? California

I understand that at a traffic infraction trial you have the right to see, hear and question any witnessess against you as it is in any other type of case.

Do I have the right to see, hear and question the party represented by the prosecution since that party is a party to the case against the person charged with the offense?

Is that party against me [the plaintiff], as a person charged with the offense, considered a witness against me?

Is there a law in the California Penal Code or somewhere that states that the party against me, as the person charged with the offense, is considered a "witness" against me?

Thank you

ChoixDuJour
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
ChoixDuJour said:
What is the name of your state? California

What is the name of your state? California

I understand that at a traffic infraction trial you have the right to see, hear and question any witnessess against you as it is in any other type of case.

Do I have the right to see, hear and question the party represented by the prosecution since that party is a party to the case against the person charged with the offense?

Is that party against me [the plaintiff], as a person charged with the offense, considered a witness against me?

Is there a law in the California Penal Code or somewhere that states that the party against me, as the person charged with the offense, is considered a "witness" against me?

Thank you

ChoixDuJour
**A: do you ever get the feeling that you are not making any sense?
 
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ChoixDuJour

Guest
Is there intelligent life out there?

I posted these questions expecting intelligent replies. I didn't realize that there were a bunch of Jay Leno wanna beeees in this forum. The court session is on April 7th and I don't really have time to be joking around. These questions are very serious.

My questions are regarding the California Penal Code relating to witnessess we have a right to question in the court as stated by the judges and commissioners in the beginning of every court session. Anyone who's ever been in a courtroom would know what I am talking about. If you don't understand my questions, please ask intelligently regarding what you don't understand so I could elaborate intelligently.

I am very new to this forum and not accustomed to the unusual humor in a legal forum.

Is there anyone intelligent enough in this forum to help me find the answers to my questions?

Thank you

ChoixDuJour

[P.S. To the un-gentleman with the wife who made the derogatory, denagrading and libelous comment about females... keep in mind that you wouldn't be in this world if it wasn't for a female... your mother. Not a very nice thing to say about your wife or your mother. I would very much appreciate the continuance of the professional atmosphere I expected from this forum, and not the denagrading ignorance of Jay Leno wanna beeeees. Maybe I should report these types of derogatory, denagrading comments to the forum administrators. Get a life!]
 
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Ramoth

Guest
Cabbage-of-the-day, perhaps if you reposted your questions in a more reader friendly way, you'd get a better answer. Use names like Fred, George, Wilma. I've read your original post twice now and I can't figure out who was charged with what, who saw it, and who's just along for the ride.
 
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oberauerdorf

Guest
To the un-gentleman with the wife who made the derogatory, denagrading and libelous comment about females... keep in mind that you wouldn't be in this world if it wasn't for a female... your mother. Not a very nice thing to say about your wife or your mother. I would very much appreciate the continuance of the professional atmosphere I expected from this forum, and not the denagrading ignorance of Jay Leno wanna beeeees. Maybe I should report these types of derogatory, denagrading comments to the forum administrators. Get a life!]
You can reach her at [email protected]

And by the way, lwpat's comment does not rise to the level of libel. Since you brought it up at least know the legal definition of the word.

Now, back (waaaaaay back in the dark ages) in commumications 101 at Kansas University, even a dunderhead like me learned that the responsibility of communicating a message is not incumbant on the receiver to 'understand' but on the communicator to deliver.

Therefore, if you wish to have your message understood, it is your responsibility to present it in an intelligible manner.

So, either come back and repost in a cogent manner or not. That's your decision.
 

lwpat

Senior Member
"The court session is on April 7th and I don't really have time to be joking around"

Then retain an attorney who might possibly be able to make some sense out of your questions.

I knew it-female.
 
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ChoixDuJour

Guest
Clearification...

Thank you all for helping me understand that I may be asking my questions in the wrong forum. I apologize for any inconvenience upon you. My questions are regarding litigation and courtroom procedures in a traffic infraction case. My area of understanding is as a legal researcher in the field of income tax both state and especially federal. I'm not as familiar with the standard, vanilla, everyday courtroom procedures as I would like to be. That's why I'm asking questions here and am now aware that I may be in the wrong forum even though this is a traffic ticket matter.

The heart of the matter is that my daughter is considered the "Defendant" in a traffic infraction trial in about 10 days. The city attorney's office prosecuting the case has violated more California Penal Codes and sections of the State Bar Act than I would even care to mention... so has the Commissioner... in this case prior to the trial. Complaints will be filed on each of them prior to the case to the Presiding Judge, California State Bar and other authoritative agencies, departments and organizations including but not limited to the Los Angeles District Attorney [especially after my conversation with one of their criminal investigators]. It just baffles my intelligence when the assistant city attorney from the office prosecuting this case tells me directly in a conversation with him that he can make up his own rules whenever he feels like it. Amazing.

However, my questions were simply asking if the plantiff within a courtroom procedure is considered a "witness against" the defendant as parties to the case. If so, where would I be able to find that stated in any manner in any of the California codes? That's all I'm asking.

To expound as to why I am asking this question... If my daughter as the "Defendant" has the right to "see, hear and question every witness against her" at the trial as stated by the Superior Court of California, wouldn't she have the right to call on and question the plantiff if the plantiff is considered a "witness against" her in this case?

By the way... "oberauerdorf", regarding the definition of the term "libel"... I do know the meaning of the term as stated in my 7th edition of Black's Law Dictionary...

"libel, vb. 1. To defame (someone) in a permanent medium, exp. in writing."

Also from the 7th edition of my Black's Law Dictionary...

"defamatory statement. A statement that tends to injure the reputation of a person referred to in it. * The statement is likely to lower that person in the estimation of resonable people and in particular to cause that person to be regarded with feelings of hatred, contempt, ridecule, fear, or dislike."

I didn't come to this forum to be rideculed or disliked by anyone. I just wanted to see if anyone could intelligently answer my questions.

Therefore, should I be a "female" and not a "male" as "Iwpat" so distinctly sterotyped me to be, then that would be a definite defamation of character within this public forum of private members in writing without any documentation to prove his sexist, prejudiced, degatory and defamatory statement. Should I happen to be "male" and not "female" as he seems to enjoy sterotyping people by their method of writing, then I pity his wife who has to put up with somebody like that who makes derogatory comments about her in a public forum like this. Regarding "Iwpat", Mr T says it well... "Pity the fool!" I suppose "Iwpat" will never know whether I am male or female.

Also, "oberauerdorf", pursuant to the Terms and Conditions of this forum which states in part...

"... Use of the Forums is subject to our Terms and Conditions which prohibit advertisements, solicitations or other commercial messages, or false, defamatory, abusive, vulgar, or harassing messages, and subject violators to a fee for each improper posting. All postings reflect the views of the author but become the property of FreeAdvice."

... I will take you up on the contact you gave me should any more of such negative comments arise.

Thank you

ChoixDuJour
 

stephenk

Senior Member
There is no "plaintiff" in a quasi-criminal matter. It is the State of California (or a specific city) prosecuting your daughter. Dont confuse civil procedure with criminal procedure.

The witnesses used by the prosecution can be cross-examined by your daughter at the trial. Just like witnesses in favor of your daughter can be cross-examined by the prosecutor.


how serious is the traffic ticket?
 
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lwpat

Senior Member
"Good grief. Where do you people come from?"

I know, I know. Her mother!

Welcome to the wonderful world of traffic court. Yes, the judges and prosecutors can and do make up their own rules as they go along. It sounds like you have assured that your daughter will be convicted and receive the maximum fine/points.

Actually, if you will post your legal situation including statute number the people on this forum will be happy to provide advice. Such as: Did you request a Trial by Declaration? Did the courtesy summons state that she was eligible for traffic school? It makes it much easier to reply if we have some facts.

Speaking of facts, have you considered that your daughter may not be telling you the complete version.
 
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ChoixDuJour

Guest
Thank you for your constructive comments...

Cool... thank you stephenk and lwpat for your positive responses with valuable information. I really appreciate your considerate contribution. As for HomeGuru, he is more than welcomed to remain in my thread should he care to contribute constructive information. Otherwise HomeGuru, please keep your negative comments to yourself or stay out of my threads.

"stephenk"... I don't know what you mean by "quasi-criminal" matter. I could not find that in my 7th edition of Black's Law Dictionary or anywhere else. As I understand it is either civil or criminal, there is no inbetween. So what is an infraction considered to be?

On the contrary to your statement... "There is no "plaintiff" in a quasi-criminal matter.", if you are referring to this traffic ticket infraction... this infraction does have a "Plaintiff and a "Defendant". How do I know this? I have a court reporter's transcript of the appearance and arraignment of this case sitting right here on my desk in front of me. It's on there just as plain as day. So maybe this is a criminal matter even though within the transcript the Commissioner states that this is just an infraction.

And your statement about "witnessess used by the prosecution can be cross-examined by your daughter at the trial" is what I am requesting here. Is the "Plaintiff" as complainant, represented by the prosecution, considered a witness for the prosecution that my daughter can question?

You also asked about the seriousness of this traffic ticket. It is just a moving violation going across a flashing red light. Traffic school was offered and the total would be over $300 for something that she didn't do. My daughter was alone in her car at midnight and did stop at the flashing red light before proceeding like she always does. When the officer gave her the ticket he said... "Well, I have to give somebody a ticket." like as if it was some kind of a quota he had to meet.

However, there is more and I will answer that here to Iwpat's most recent post where he has asked me questions and given me positive feedback to help me understand what to do here to help everyone better understand the situation.

"Iwpat"... My daughter is the one who is following my instructions throughout the court proceedings. I don't understand everything about courtroom procedure and that is why I am asking questions here. I was there as one of the witnesses in the courtroom and I was also the one who prepared her paperwork to notice the court officers of the request to them pursuant to the California Penal and Vehicle Codes. Here is only a gist of this tangeled web they are weaving...

Once my daughter got the traffic ticket, I commenced my research into the California Penal Code and California Vehicle Code. I noticed that pursuant to California Penal Code section 740 it states that "all misdemeaners and infractions must be prosecuted by wirtten complaint under oath subscribed by the complainant". I also noticed that in the California Penal Code section 853.9 and California Vehicle Code section 40513 it states that the prosecution can proceed on a notice to appear (traffic ticket) "in lieu of a verified complaint" which they are attempting to do. However, it also states in those codes that "If the notice to appear [traffic ticket] is not verified, the defendant may at the time of arraignment, request that a verified complaint be filed." I had my daughter request in writing at the night court arraignment that a verified complaint be filed pursuant to those California Penal and Vehicle Codes. A new arraignment date was calendared.

This request started a chian reaction to the point that they have made some significant errors in their proceedings to violate their own laws... when they want us to obey them. Fortunately, due to this request by my daughter the court change the courtroom for her case and sent her from the traffic infraction courtroom trailer to a civil courtroom inside the main court building where we waited for 40 minutes for the session to start while the city prosecutor apparently colluded with the commissioner after asking for my daughter's file before walking into the commissioners chambers for 20 minutes. By having her traffic case in this civil courtroom, there just happened to be a court reporter there for the day that we didn't have to pay for her presence. Everything that was said was mostly recorded on a transcript by the court reporter [which has to be redone or complaints and requests for refund will be filed since some of the information is incorrect and missing.... I know since I have a digital audio recording of the court session in my possession]. The deputy city prosecutor stated of what he "believe" is true and stated "I don't think" and what "I think" and not what he actually knows pursuant to California Penal Code regarding proceeding on the notice to appear "in lieu of a verified complaint". The commissioner agreed with the deputy city prosecutor and proceeded onto the arraignment ingnoring the notice for the verified complaint that must be filed pursuant to their Penal Code. When my daughter reminded the commissioner that she filed a notice and not a motion, he continued several times to state that her motion for a verified complaint was denied without stating pursuant to "what????". You can't deny a notice pursuant to the California Commercial Code where under public policy the courts proceed. When you are noticed you have knowledge a thing (whatever it is). But he forced her into a trial in violation of the State Bar Act, and that's where she's headed next week.

This is where my question comes in. According to the above stated codes, an infraction must (not may be or multiple choice for the prosecution to choose from)... MUST be filed and subscribed by the complainant under oath. It also states in the California Penal Code that "If a complaint, that it is made and subscribed by some natural person and sworn to before some officer entitled to administer oaths." So therefore, this plaintiff who has filed a charge against my daughter as the complainant has filed a written complaint against her that is not verified (witnessing against her as stated in Black's in other words) that they possibly don't want her to see.

Does my daughter have the right to call the complainant (plaintiff) to be questioned in court or subpeona the complainant (plaintiff) duces tecum to court with the verified complaint that must be filed against her as a witness to be questioned by my daughter?

Is the Plaintiff, who is also the complainant filing the charge against my daughter, considered a witness against her to be questioned as stated in the rights of the defendant to see, hear and question all witnesses against you in the courtroom?

Hope that is explanation enough to get the juices going?

Thank you

ChoixDuJour
 

stephenk

Senior Member
'I know since I have a digital audio recording of the court session in my possession"

I hope you mean you did not tape record the court session on your own. That is illegal. You can be in big trouble if you try and use your recording to impeach the court reporter transcript. Plus, not everything that is said in court is recorded by the court reporter. If the court requests a matter be heard off the record, there will be no record in the official transcript.

The witness on behalf of the State will be the officer who gave your daughter the ticket. He will say your daughter ran the red light. Your daughter will deny she ran the light. Judge will decide who is more credible.

Your daughter should have taken the traffic school because all of your arguments are going to have to be made by her alone. you cant represent her at the trial.
 
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