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Waiting for 9 Hours or more

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monnickasmommy

Guest
What is the name of your state?az

Example : My sister took her 2 year old daughter in the ER yesterday per doctors request with difficulty breathing. She waited for 3 hours and then asked how much longer do you think it will be ? The ER clerk said it can be along, along, time , maybe not until 3-4 in the morning. ! This is at 7:00 at night she went in.
( I listen a police scanner, the scanner last night had no emergency calls )

Can a Hospital ER Department make someone wait more then 9 hours to be seen ?
 


enjay

Member
There are no laws that specify how quickly someone must been seen in an emergency room. The sickest or most injured people are treated first and everyone else waits their turn.
 
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Sparky13

Guest
Incorrect! There definitely *are* laws regulating the amount of time spent waiting to be seen in a hospital ED. In the case of a child with trouble breathing, which is considered a VERY high priority case, the wait time should be brief if there is any at all. Unless there is a disaster or a mass casuality incident, every patient should be seen within a reasonable amount of time, and any patient with problems with the ABCs (airway, breathing and/or circulation) needs to be bumped to the top of the pile.

I am an emergency medical techynician with my local fire department here in Maryland. If we have a patient who is clearly in respiratory distress, there is no wait time at all. If our patient is not in need of immediate attention, he or she will at the very least be triaged and assigned a priority (either 1, 2 or 3, depending on their presenting symptoms). Now, it can take nine hours for a patient to be seen, treated and discharged. That, actually, is to be expected. However, it is unheard of to make a patient wait 9 hours before being examined.

Now, in the case above, if the patient actually had a minor problem and was not harmed by the delay, then there is nothing that the parents can do but complain to their state's office of emergency services. Should the child need to be taken to the ED again, it would be best for the parents to ask the child's doctor to phone ahead and alert the ED that that the child is coming in with the parents and what priority the doctor feels that patient might be.
Sparky (not a lawyer, just an EMT)
 

ellencee

Senior Member
Sparky13
enjay is correct: There *are* NO laws that state how long a person can or can not wait in an emergency room.

et al

There ARE standards of care that include patient triage and medical response.

This child did not have difficulty breathing sufficient to warrant an ER visit or the kid would have been dead in 9 hours!

The pediatrician should have been notified by the parents and told the ER could not see the child for a minimum of 3 hours. Then, the pediatrician could have made arrangements to see the child in the ER or call in a prescription or put some 'oomph' into his or her request that the ER MDs at least check the child.

EC
 

stephenk

Senior Member
So how long did your sister actually wait at the ER before her daughter was seen? What does "difficulty breathing" mean?
 
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Sparky13

Guest
Ellencee,
I went back and checked my state's EMS protocols and, true enough, there is no specified wait limit. The protocols simply state that patients need to be seen in a timely manner. Vague, but fair enough.

I took the writer to mean that the child was not so much as triaged for several hours. Triage, too, needs to be timely, but, again, no time limit is specified.

In my experience, a child (or an adult) can have breathing problems that go on for hours but do not necessarily end in death. I've transported people who state that their symptoms began the day before or even longer. Some of these people were high-priority patients, who really ought to have called 911 a lot sooner. The child in question probably didn't have a high-priority condition and I hope that she (or he? Can't recall.) was at least triaged immediately upon arrival. If not, then shame on that hospital! I'd like the original poster to come back and tell us what the diagnosis turned out to be. Also would like to know how long it was before he WAS seen, since the poster didn't tell us this, either.

Several years ago, my mother was transported by a friend to the ED at a local hospital for sub-sternal chest pain. She sat, untriaged, in the ED's triage waiting room until I arrived. For quite some time I attempted to have her brought to the triage assessment area, saying that this is a chest pain patient with a history of heart disease and two previous angioplasties, but they said she had to wait because they were very busy. The last time I approached the triage nurse, I saw that they were evaluating a person with a broken hand. At that point I told the triage nurse that either they evaluated my mother right away or I would call for a medic unit via 911 to pick her up and take her to another hospital. I was raising my voice by this time, as my mother had been waiting for over an hour. They let her back, assessed her, deemed her to be having a heart attack, and took her to the ED proper right away. She spent the next week in the hospital.

So, you see, I'm a little bit sore about long hospital wait times, not just on account of my mother, but because I hear about and see it all the time as an EMT. But, you are correct, no definitive time limitations exist.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
Sparky13
I know that ERs everywhere have the same problem of lenghty waits, sometimes with significant damages to the patient. Triage is a high priority standard in ERs because of these lawsuits.

The lack of available, affordable healthcare has forced many persons to seek treatment in the ER for conditions that routinely would be taken care of in a doctor's office. Other people can't get off of work to see a doctor during regular office hours and are left with no option but to go to the ER to see an MD. Then, of course, there are those persons who go to the ER once a week, sometimes I think for entertainment; and, there are the drug-seekers.

Hospitals are trying to dodge liability in ERs by having ER staff independent of the hospital. It used to be just contract MDs; now its the whole team that is contract. They even bill separately from the hospital. I don't think the hospitals have managed to dodge liability in the courts, but in the public opinion, it's no longer the hospital's fault but the contract providers who are to blame.

I don't have the records from this poster's situation and if I did, I'd like to see the records from the time the parents called the child's MD. I suspect the on-call MD 'dumped' his or her responsibility of seeing patients after-hours by sending the child to the ER. It's common practice--don't interrupt the on-call physician's Friday night--go wait for hours and hours in the ER. It creates a mess for the patient and the ER and everyone who is affected by the ER referral.

I think we have great healthcare skills and superior treatments in this country, but we have a heck of a mess in the delivery and availability of both.

I'll pass along a tip to readers--if you are going to the ER with a true emergency, call ahead. Tell the ER you are on your way with a child having difficulty breathing or with a person who believes he or she is having a heart attack, or whatever the true emergency is. Make sure the person with whom you speak knows that you know their name--say something like--"OK, Marsha Brady RN...we are leaving now, 2:10 PM and expect to arrive at 2:45 PM. I am expecting someone to meet us at the door."

EC
 
M

monnickasmommy

Guest
She waited for 3 hours, she was Triage about 1 hour after she signed her in- She left after the 3 hrs when she was told it would be not until the am for her child to be seen- The child now is on a breathing machine at home.
Child was seen at the doctors office at 5:30 pm, (doctors office stays open late) the doctor she see's is the ER Head DR- He was the one that told her you need to take her to the ER as soon as she can (she had to take her son to a babysitter) and if they give you problems call my office first thing in the AM, or befor you get discharged-She did he was mad-
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She took her 1 year old son in the ER the day befor and he was not Triaged for 2 hours, he had a small fever 102 - he has RSV and yes they released him- --------------------
When I took my son in the same hospital last year, I went in 4 pm and did not get seen until 11:30pm after the 2nd time he barfed all over me, fever of 104. He had to spend 3 dyas in the hospital with RSV I got a room at 2:30 in the am. I did compalin with the hospital on that ! They even released him WHILE I went to lunch with my husband- WE where bent - Like I want to give my baby RSV !! (2900.00 visit)
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2 years ago-When I was 3 months pg with my daughter I was so sick I was barfing in the ER I had to wait 7 hours (friday) I had to spend 3 days in there with hypothyrodism-on med's to control it-

Our hospital you have to take a 575.00 ambulance ride to be seen.
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I know a Attorney that has a lawsuite going against our hospital already- I have to give them some nasty letters the hospital sent me. Reguarding Billing issues- I went way over there head and they did not like it-
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We have seen people have seizures in the hospital and they make them wait -
THe emplyees are always eating or sitting down cracking jokes
 
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Sparky13

Guest
M's Mommy,
Wow! It sounds like this hospital is in dire need of some reorganization, to say the least. Might I suggest that you contact your county and/or state representative and give him or her the same information you presented here. If you have a chance to meet face-to-face with someone, that would be even better. Nothing will change until those with power are made aware of the problems with your hospital's ED. Since you and others have had long waits and have seen the hospital's staff sitting around doing nothing while people are seizing and whatnot in the waiting room, you could get everyone you know who has had problems sign a letter. It's better than nothing and it could be the beginning of good changes to the way emergency care is provided in your area.
Sparky
 
M

monnickasmommy

Guest
I have never thought about that I will do that-

The day I had took my son in there for RSV- some guy had everyone that was there that night that waited for hours to be seen write there name down on a paper that they had to wait for along time -
I have a newspaper clipping on my file cabnet - In public Notice : ANYONE WHO HAS HAD Problems with treatment at XXXHospital in the ER Contact me at XX , No I did not contact them because I did not have all my infomation at the time- But I am going to write my state representative and I will encourage others to do so too- As of Jan 1st our hospital lost alot of good ER doctors due to contract-
 

smorr

Member
Unfortunately, the ER's in our country are in real need of a major overhaul! This seems to be a chief complaint around the country. Massachusetts is no better. One hospital in particular is being currently scrutinized for allowing a 6-year old child (and her mom) to sit for hours. This particular hospital is being charged with allowing a child to sit in the ER for six hours and the child was having an asthma attack. Go figure....
 

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