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What Can He Do??

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T

Teen15

Guest
Florida

15 Years Old Caucasion

I (Male) was walking down the street with a friend (male). Just walking down the side walk to a theatre nearby. Allthough I told my parents I was going to the park instead. The Cop Pulled his car over and asked us to stop walking, we were just walking so he really had no reason to stop us. He then asked us where we were going, we told him. He then asked if are parents knew, and we said no. Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going. Just to see if it was ok.

Question: Did I have to obey the cop in that situation, I do not believe he had any right to stop and ask us for are parents numbers. What could he do If I said No? Please tell me what a cop can and cant do in that situation.
 


K

krispenstpeter

Guest
There is more to this story and until you come back and explain EVERY fact of this situation then we can't help you.
 
T

Teen15

Guest
Advice

Florida

Ok Here is Full Explanation.

I (Male) was walking down the street with another friend also 15 years old(male). It was Around 7 o'clock P.M. We were walking down the side walk to a theatre nearby. Allthough I told my parents I was going to the park instead. The Cop Pulled his car over and asked us to stop walking, we were just walking so he really had no reason to stop us. He then asked us where we were going, we told him exactly what we were doing. He then asked if are parents knew, and we said no. Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going. Just to see if it was ok. We gave him the numbers and left messages w/ are parents. Though are parents did not answer, he said he would leave it up to them to decide what to do, and he ended up driving us to the park. He said he stopped us because he see's alot of kids ending up being dropped off, then the kids will go somewhere else with out the parents knowing. Such as we were doing. Never had any other encounters with this cop. We were just walking, thats it. We were polite the entire time. Did exactly what he told us to do.

Question: Did I have to obey the cop in that situation, I do not believe he had any right to stop and ask us for are parents numbers. What could he do If I said No? Please tell me what a cop can and cant do in that situation.

PS- If you need more specific facts, please ask what facts are needed to just give me some advice.
 
K

krispenstpeter

Guest
Did I have to obey the cop in that situation
Yes. The police office had a right to determine if you were loitering, homeless or had a specific purpose in that area (presumed to be non-residential since there was a theatre nearby) at that time of night.

I do not believe he had any right to stop and ask us for are parents numbers.
He had every right to ask. Just as you had every right to not give it to him. Then he would have arrested you for loitering and you could have spent your time in jail.


What could he do If I said No?
see above.

Please tell me what a cop can and cant do in that situation.
There are far too many permatations to this 'situation' to tell you what could have been done. Suffice it to say you admitted that you had no business in the area in which you were stopped and the police office had every right to ascertain your purpose for being there.

We don't know what type of area it is, what type of criminal activity if any transpires there during the hours you were 'just walking' or any other relevant facts that the police office knew. For example, how many kids have been abducted in that area 'just walking'.

Instead of trying to find fault with this officer, be thankful that he cared enough to find out if you were there for a valid reason or just being some pedophile bait.

And next time, you might want to do as you say you'll do. You lied to your parents and It wouldn't surprise me if they don't let you 'just walk' around for awhile.
 
T

Teen15

Guest
Advice

1) "There are far too many permatations to this 'situation' to tell you what could have been done. Suffice it to say you admitted that you had no business in the area in which you were stopped and the police office had every right to ascertain your purpose for being there."

2)We don't know what type of area it is, what type of criminal activity if any transpires there during the hours you were 'just walking' or any other relevant facts that the police office knew. For example, how many kids have been abducted in that area 'just walking'.

3)Instead of trying to find fault with this officer, be thankful that he cared enough to find out if you were there for a valid reason or just being some pedophile bait.

4) And next time, you might want to do as you say you'll do. You lied to your parents and It wouldn't surprise me if they don't let you 'just walk' around for awhile.

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A1) Its not a crime to just walk to a destination, If I want to Change my mind on where I'm going to Im aloud right?

A2) Naples Florida.. Extremely Low Crime Rates, The Area we were is pretty much the family area of town. Low Crime. No Matter what the situation. Was still light out at the time. I'm 15, 6'4. Doubt he was worrying about me getting abducted. Yes, Me and My Friend, where "just walking" from one location to another. Straight line, not being loud, not obstructing the enviroment around us, carrying nothing with us.

A3) Not trying to find fault w/ this officer. Just wandering If I had the right to say no, and what he could have done, If I was not doing unjust.

A4) My Parents Did Not Really find anything wrong with what I did. I changed destinations, thats simply it. Still Free to "Just Walk"

There were no "Loitering Signs" Posted in that Designated Area.
 
K

krispenstpeter

Guest
Its not a crime to just walk to a destination, If I want to Change my mind on where I'm going to Im aloud right?
Wrong. If you are inside the fence at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. then it is illegal. If you are walking in a high-crime area after dark or cutting through a private backyard it is questionable.

But that wasn't your situation was it? And nowhere did I say it was a crime. That has nothing to do with your situation. It is, however, given the exact circumstances of your situation, a valid reason for the officer to stop and question you.

A2) Naples Florida.. Extremely Low Crime Rates, The Area we were is pretty much the family area of town. Low Crime. No Matter what the situation. Was still light out at the time. I'm 15, 6'4. Doubt he was worrying about me getting abducted. Yes, Me and My Friend, where "just walking" from one location to another. Straight line, not being loud, not obstructing the enviroment around us, carrying nothing with us.
Which in and of itself means nothing. The office still had every right to stop and question you. Otherwise, you might want to read up on the law. Specifically Terry.

A3) Not trying to find fault w/ this officer. Just wandering If I had the right to say no, and what he could have done, If I was not doing unjust.
And I already answered this question. But you did not say no. So there's really no point in discussing it further.

A4) My Parents Did Not Really find anything wrong with what I did. I changed destinations, thats simply it. Still Free to "Just Walk"
Irrelevant to the issue at hand.

There were no "Loitering Signs" Posted in that Designated Area.
Has no bearing on the fact that the office STILL had a right to stop and question you. Loitering is established in statute and city ordinance.

Listen kid, the next time you decide to 'just walk' realize that a police office may stop and question you. You can choose to act like a jerk or not. But I'm not going to continue this simply because what you do doesn't matter at this point.

You asked if the office had the right to detain and question you and the answer is yes. PERIOD. Anything more is for you to discover by studying the law.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Something about you caught the officer's attention .. your dress, demeanor, reactions - something. He asked you some questions and you replied. Had you NOT answered, chances are he would have found some reason to detain you anyway. I found that if I lay back long enough I'll see kids cross the street against the city code or a municipal code and that would give me cause to stop and detain.

So much of it is attitude. You tried to get around your parents, and you got caught. If you tried to do that with the cop, he may have just let it go. Maybe. Or, he may have decided you were worth paying attention to and dealt with you later.

And has already been hypothesized, the officer may have known or suspected something he sure as heck did not relate to you.

So, unless we know the officer's side of the tale, we have no idea whether you could have told him to pound sand with impunity. However, that's a sure way to GET attention you don't want.

Carl
 
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еberha14

Guest
Teen15 said:
Florida

Ok Here is Full Explanation.

I (Male) was walking down the street with another friend also 15 years old(male). It was Around 7 o'clock P.M. We were walking down the side walk to a theatre nearby. Allthough I told my parents I was going to the park instead. The Cop Pulled his car over and asked us to stop walking, we were just walking so he really had no reason to stop us. He then asked us where we were going, we told him exactly what we were doing. He then asked if are parents knew, and we said no. Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going. Just to see if it was ok. We gave him the numbers and left messages w/ are parents. Though are parents did not answer, he said he would leave it up to them to decide what to do, and he ended up driving us to the park. He said he stopped us because he see's alot of kids ending up being dropped off, then the kids will go somewhere else with out the parents knowing. Such as we were doing. Never had any other encounters with this cop. We were just walking, thats it. We were polite the entire time. Did exactly what he told us to do.

Question: Did I have to obey the cop in that situation, I do not believe he had any right to stop and ask us for are parents numbers. What could he do If I said No? Please tell me what a cop can and cant do in that situation.

PS- If you need more specific facts, please ask what facts are needed to just give me some advice.
Hi.

Before I begin, I'd like to caution you not to pay attention to the other responses you've received, because they are grossly inaccurate. I can provide you with proof of my legal education if you care to email me.

You claim to have been walking down the sidewalk at the time, en route to a destination in the early evening. Anyone, whether it be a hot woman who spotted you and wanted to introduce herself, or a police officer who wants to know if everything's okay, may ask you to stop to talk to you. This is regardless if you're 18 yet or not. And for all the officer knew, you were 18. BTW, this has nothing to do with loitering.

Now, the question is not whether or not he had the right to ask you to stop and talk for a moment, but whether or not you were legally required to answer his questions and whether or not he had the right to arrest you.

Given the story and purported facts as you state them, it is likely that he did not.

1) "He then asked us where we were going, we told him exactly what we were doing".
***You are not legally required to answer this question. But since you were unaware at that moment why he had stopped you, it probably would have been logical to tell him you were en route to "somewhere" or that you were simply "taking a walk" until you learned more about why he stopped you.

2) "He then asked if are[our] parents knew, and we said no.
***Again you are not legally required to answer this.

3) "Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going.
***Again, certainly did not have to answer this legally.

4) " Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going."
***Same answer.

5) "Though are parents did not answer, he said he would leave it up to them to decide what to do, and he ended up driving us to the park. He said he stopped us because he see's alot of kids ending up being dropped off, then the kids will go somewhere else with out the parents knowing."

Okay, here's where your rights were likely violated. The police officer is likely guilty as a tortfeasor who committed false arrest (a type of false imprisonment). In general (and simply stated), when the arresting party knowingly holds someone who has not committed a crime under such circumstances, he is guilty of false arrest. He apparently was not leaving it up to you whether or not you wanted to go with him in the car: "he said he would leave it up to them[parents]." He then apparently abused his authority as a police officer by making you go with him in his car, and took you to a location to which you did not consent to go to, which btw, was not your home.

Now, regarding cases involving minors, courts do take this into effect with reason. For instance, if two five year olds are wandering off down the road unsupervised, a police officer would have justifiable reason to detain them until finding a guardian in order to protect their safety. This would not apply in your case as a young man in high school (a 6'4" one, no less). Other reasons may include if there was a dangerous situation in progress, like a beginning riot, etc. A law for minor curfew would clearly not be the case here in the event there is one in your area (it was 7:00). Besides, the police officer gave his reason for detaining you. It had nothing to do with suspicion of you committing a crime, etc. There was no protected legal privilege or warrant in this case.

If you feel bothered by this and wanted to sue, I'd recommend sitting down with your parents and discussing it in a mature and formal manner, letting your parents know you feel embarrassed and bothered by the situation, and that it offended your dignity; and that you are not a little boy any more but a young man and feel that your rights were violated and that it's important for you pursue this legally. Many attorneys give free consultations, and you may be able to get attorney's fees and costs with a successful suit. In the event that your parents didn't want to make an appointment with an attorney, you may still be able to sue after turning 18 if the statute of limitations hasn't run out (I doubt it).

Regardless, remember what I have told you for the future. But also be aware that reality sometimes can complicate a situation. For instance, the police officer may lie about what happened. In fact, if he were sued, you could probably expect it. And in general, most wise people (even attorneys) will cooperate with police in many instances to a 'reasonable point' even when they know the officer is wrong or exceeding his authority, often because of fear that the officer will be corrupt and make something up if you piss him off, plus you can always sue them afterwards. In your case, there are two of you, and it does help a lot for convincing a jury.

Good luck!
 
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еberha14

Guest
krispenstpeter said:
There are far too many permatations to this 'situation' to tell you what could have been done. Suffice it to say you admitted that you had no business in the area in which you were stopped
This information is incorrect. He was en route to a destination using a public sidewalk. That's what sidewalks are there for. It's irrelevant whether he was walking to the park, his girlfriend's house, or the theatre. The police officer is the one who had no business here. The issue of where he was headed is the business of the parents and him only. This also has nothing to do with "loitering".

krispenstpeter said:
We don't know what type of area it is, what type of criminal activity if any transpires there during the hours you were 'just walking' or any other relevant facts that the police office knew. For example, how many kids have been abducted in that area 'just walking'. Instead of trying to find fault with this officer, be thankful that he cared enough to find out if you were there for a valid reason or just being some pedophile bait.
He isn't eight. He's a young man in high school. And it was 7:00 and light outside still; not that it matters. I can barely stand to read your postings. You're clearly saying this to mess with his head in a particular way that you know a guy his age will be most offended by. Yes, a young man in high school shouldn't be able to walk somewhere during daylight hours down the sidewalk without grandma with him. What he had to deal with with the police officer with mental problems was bad enough without having to deal with you on top of it. Every one of your postings is either extremely offensive and provocative, ignorant, or usually a combination of both. I really wish someone would ban you and the other senior member nickname you post under. All you do is provide misinformation while lying about your knowledge, make people feel bad, and waste bandwidth. How many thousands of people do you have to do this to before you get banned.
 
K

krispenstpeter

Guest
I really wish someone would ban you and the other senior member nickname you post under. All you do is provide misinformation while lying about your knowledge, make people feel bad, and waste bandwidth. How many thousands of people do you have to do this to before you get banned.
If you weren't so sad you'd be funny. Instead of trolling for clients on an internet forum why don't you study something useful....hmmmmmm....maybe law?

Now, just to entertain myself for a bit why don't you TELL ME and the rest of this forum whom you THINK I am. Come on now, since you've made accusations based on a lack of facts at least support them?

And while we're at it, why don't YOU ban me? Oh wait, you CAN'T. I guess impotence works on other things too.

Okay, here's where your rights were likely violated. The police officer is likely guilty as a tortfeasor who committed false arrest (a type of false imprisonment).
This is funny. Now since you made that claim why don't you tell this young man the statute the officer violated? Or better still, fly down to florida and represent him free of charge?

. It had nothing to do with suspicion of you committing a crime,
And of course you know this because you've spoken with the officer in question and have the police logs from that night.

If you feel bothered by this and wanted to sue, I'd recommend sitting down with your parents and discussing it in a mature and formal manner, letting your parents know you feel embarrassed and bothered by the situation, and that it offended your dignity; and that you are not a little boy any more but a young man and feel that your rights were violated and that it's important for you pursue this legally. Many attorneys give free consultations, and you may be able to get attorney's fees and costs with a successful suit. In the event that your parents didn't want to make an appointment with an attorney, you may still be able to sue after turning 18 if the statute of limitations hasn't run out (I doubt it).
Why go to all that trouble? Why don't you fly down there and represent this young man for free. After all, this is a slam dunk right?

Teen, this forum is much like life. You eventually have to make your own decisions. Yes, you could file a civil rights suit against the officer and the department. Hell, in this litigous country, you could file suit against a billboard or other inantimate object. The question you have to ask yourself is "is it worth it?"

No one, not I nor 'other people' can make that decision for you.

But, the reason I asked in my first post for the rest of the story is the same as why I answered the way I did. There is always more to the story than we get here. Your side and the 'other' side. And since we only get one side, we have to make determinations based on a limited amount of facts.

Now, if you want to believe that all officers have ulterior motives and will lie at the drop of a hat as 'others' have suggested here, then that's also your right. But you would be making the same mistake as those who think all attorneys are ambulance chasers and out only for money and not their client's protection.

You have to make up your own mind.
 
K

krispenstpeter

Guest
By the way Teen15, since you brought up the fact that Naples is a low-crime city, I just thought I'd enlighten you.

Naples FL Crime Statistics (2002 - New Crime Data) Crime Type 2002

Total Per 100,000 People National per 100,000 People
Overall Naples Crime Index 1103 5028.49 4118.8
Naples Murders 0 0 5.6
Naples Forcible Rapes 4 18.24 33.0
Naples Robberies 20 91.18 145.9
Naples Aggravated Assaults 52 237.06 310.1
Naples Burglaries 266 1212.67 746.2
Naples Larceny/Thefts 718 3273.31 2445.8
Naples Motor Vehicle Thefts 43 196.03 432.1
Naples Arsons 1 4.56 N/A

The statistics show that Naples has more robberies, burlaries and larceny/thefts than the national average but lower forcible rapes and murders.

So, all in all, just an average city. Not low-crime but also not high-crime.
 

n_and

Member
еberha14 said:
Hi.

Before I begin, I'd like to caution you not to pay attention to the other responses you've received, because they are grossly inaccurate. I can provide you with proof of my legal education if you care to email me.

You claim to have been walking down the sidewalk at the time, en route to a destination in the early evening. Anyone, whether it be a hot woman who spotted you and wanted to introduce herself, or a police officer who wants to know if everything's okay, may ask you to stop to talk to you. This is regardless if you're 18 yet or not. And for all the officer knew, you were 18. BTW, this has nothing to do with loitering.

Now, the question is not whether or not he had the right to ask you to stop and talk for a moment, but whether or not you were legally required to answer his questions and whether or not he had the right to arrest you.

Given the story and purported facts as you state them, it is likely that he did not.

1) "He then asked us where we were going, we told him exactly what we were doing".
***You are not legally required to answer this question. But since you were unaware at that moment why he had stopped you, it probably would have been logical to tell him you were en route to "somewhere" or that you were simply "taking a walk" until you learned more about why he stopped you.

2) "He then asked if are[our] parents knew, and we said no.
***Again you are not legally required to answer this.

3) "Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going.
***Again, certainly did not have to answer this legally.

4) " Then he asked for are parents numbers to call them and tell them where we were going."
***Same answer.

5) "Though are parents did not answer, he said he would leave it up to them to decide what to do, and he ended up driving us to the park. He said he stopped us because he see's alot of kids ending up being dropped off, then the kids will go somewhere else with out the parents knowing."

Okay, here's where your rights were likely violated. The police officer is likely guilty as a tortfeasor who committed false arrest (a type of false imprisonment). In general (and simply stated), when the arresting party knowingly holds someone who has not committed a crime under such circumstances, he is guilty of false arrest. He apparently was not leaving it up to you whether or not you wanted to go with him in the car: "he said he would leave it up to them[parents]." He then apparently abused his authority as a police officer by making you go with him in his car, and took you to a location to which you did not consent to go to, which btw, was not your home.

Now, regarding cases involving minors, courts do take this into effect with reason. For instance, if two five year olds are wandering off down the road unsupervised, a police officer would have justifiable reason to detain them until finding a guardian in order to protect their safety. This would not apply in your case as a young man in high school (a 6'4" one, no less). Other reasons may include if there was a dangerous situation in progress, like a beginning riot, etc. A law for minor curfew would clearly not be the case here in the event there is one in your area (it was 7:00). Besides, the police officer gave his reason for detaining you. It had nothing to do with suspicion of you committing a crime, etc. There was no protected legal privilege or warrant in this case.

If you feel bothered by this and wanted to sue, I'd recommend sitting down with your parents and discussing it in a mature and formal manner, letting your parents know you feel embarrassed and bothered by the situation, and that it offended your dignity; and that you are not a little boy any more but a young man and feel that your rights were violated and that it's important for you pursue this legally. Many attorneys give free consultations, and you may be able to get attorney's fees and costs with a successful suit. In the event that your parents didn't want to make an appointment with an attorney, you may still be able to sue after turning 18 if the statute of limitations hasn't run out (I doubt it).

Regardless, remember what I have told you for the future. But also be aware that reality sometimes can complicate a situation. For instance, the police officer may lie about what happened. In fact, if he were sued, you could probably expect it. And in general, most wise people (even attorneys) will cooperate with police in many instances to a 'reasonable point' even when they know the officer is wrong or exceeding his authority, often because of fear that the officer will be corrupt and make something up if you piss him off, plus you can always sue them afterwards. In your case, there are two of you, and it does help a lot for convincing a jury.

Good luck!

Please tell me that you are not seriously telling this kid he can sue the police officer for being concerned about his safety.

That's right, the kid doesn't have to answer anything the officer asks of him. And the kid can be arrested for - hmm, not sure what the actual charge would be, but insubordination.
 
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еberha14

Guest
n_and said:
Please tell me that you are not seriously telling this kid he can sue the police officer for being concerned about his safety.
Yes, I am. The violation of the law occurred when the police officer apparently arrested the two without privileged legal justification or unusual circumstances, and without their consent took them to another location. This is false arrest. And they have every right to sue. And if I were him, I would.

If grandma has the right to walk down the sidewalk to the store unattended, why in the hell shouldn't two healthy young men be able to walk down the sidewalk in their own town during daylight hours to a local business. Yes, indeed. Let's arrest every pair of young men we see out during daylight hours running to get in shape for football or going for a walk if granny isn't with them. It wasn't a bad neighborhood. Even if it were, it does not matter.

That's right, the kid doesn't have to answer anything the officer asks of him. And the kid can be arrested for - hmm, not sure what the actual charge would be, but insubordination. [/QUOTE]
That's ridiculous.
 

n_and

Member
Please indicate where the OP states he was arrested.

You can't.

Because he wasn't arrested.

So trying to sue would be LUDICROUS.

READ posts before replying.

Idiot.
 
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