railroading to confession

What is the name of your state? Texas

My son and a friend were out on prom night. There was an incident where water balloons were supposedly thrown off of an overpass and caused around $2000 in damage to a car. Two weeks later we were called to the local police station to be questioned about the incident. Both my son and his friend have said that they were not involved in this incident. The only thing the officer could tell us was the truck was a dark color,no specific time other than when the incident was reported,and that some kids at school alledgely said that the boys had gone to school and bragged about this incident.
We offered to let the boys take lie detector tests,and when they administered the test,were not allowed to go into the room with them,and were told the test had been altered by our son because he held his breath. We also were told by the investigator that the car's owner was on his back to get her car fixed. What are our rights,as no charges have been filed? Is this considered a form of harrassment?

How old is the boy ?

Was he advised of his rights ?

What is the boy's accounting of the interrogation ?

You offered for him to take a lie detector test ?without? stipulating that you agreed to this only if you were allowed to be in the room ?

Did you have legal cousil prior to making that offer to the investigators ?

My son is 16, we thought that a polygraph would be ok because he insists that he is innocent. Yes we did inquire if we could be in the room,and we weren't allowed even though the investigator was allowed. Our son was visibly upset when he came out of the room. It was not an independent test,one paid for by our law enforcement. What puzzles us is the fact that they have no solid proof of anything except the statements of some other kids that were out that night that say the boys did this and went to school and bragged about it,no one actually saw what happened. The investigator asked us if the boys were innocent then why would other kids say they were guilty-well,DUH! I Haven't yet figured out why kids will lie on other kids except to keep themselves out of the hot seat.

lngentr said:

..... we did inquire if we could be in the room,and we weren't allowed ....

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I wouldn't have allowed the procedure without legal counciling, preferably with legal council present during, or at least myself present during.

lngentr said:

Our son was visibly upset when he came out of the room.

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There may be a taperecording of the polygraph test. See if you can get a copy. They puposely try to catch people in a lie, catch them off guard, make accusations and "read" their reactions, in other words, record and interpret their nervousness, and attach meaning to it.

lngentr said:

The investigator asked us if the boys were innocent then why would other kids say they were guilty-well,DUH! I Haven't yet figured out why kids will lie on other kids except to keep themselves out of the hot seat.

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EXACTLY !!!! Maybe you should ask the PD if they have any "sword affidavits" from these so-called witnesses. Ask too, if charges are going to be filed. I wouldn't "offer" these investigators anything else, except the business card of an attorney, and then, only if charges are actually being filed.

Harrassment? I don't think they've done enough for that to stick, they're just doing their job (albeit zealously) but you are making offers ..... quit it out.

On your next encounter with them, tell them so far you've cooperated, but that it's gone far enough now. Ask them to leave you and your son alone (without any threats). If they persist, stay quiet and get a lawyer. Don't threaten to get one, just get one.

"Maybe you should ask the PD if they have any "sword affidavits" from these so-called witnesses."

I heard that "saber affidavits" are more to the point.

stephenk said:

"Maybe you should ask the PD if they have any "sword affidavits" from these so-called witnesses."

I heard that "saber affidavits" are more to the point.

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*snort* You're a sharp one.

OP - the cops aren't required to tell you what evidence they do or don't have. Your kid needs a lawyer.

I'm SO amused by typos ....

Simple things for simple minds.

I said "ask the PD ......" I didn't say they were "required" to comply ..... at least not until they level charges ..... then they are required to ...... does the word "discovery" ring a bell ?

Gee, nothing funny to say about the other typo "taperecording"?

It wasn't the typo per se that was funny, but the way stephenk used his rapier wit. Get it? Sword, saber, rapier?

And I was commenting to the OP's apparent belief that the PD is doing something wrong by not disclosing their evidence to Mom & Dad. Lighten up, Peety - noone's gonna pee in your Wheaties today.

Peety, please describe a "sword affidavit". What is in one?

Mr

Thanks for everyone's input. We did indeed contact a lawyer,who has told us these things: Do not divulge anything else,call him if charges are filed,and he wonders if our police don't have anything more important to do than try to make this a case. BTW-we did get a police report,there were 2 vehicles supposedly involved,about an hour apart in alleged incident. One had no damage,the other,according to police report,had $300 in damage. When we first talked to the police ,they told us the damage was $1900,a felony amount.
Also,the car is very OLD,not even worth $1900. What is your take on this?
Also,time of incident was after the boys were home- does it make sense that they will not drop this investigation?

lngentr said:

Also,the car is very OLD,not even worth $1900. What is your take on this?

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My take on it? Regardless of the age/worth of the car - the kids involced in damaging it should be held responsible. The driver and/or passengers could have been severely injured or killed. And suppose it's the owner's only mode of transportation and the vehicle is no longer drivable?

Mr

Very true-I certainly did not mean to minimize the seriousness of the crime or the right of these people to have their car fixed. My comment was only intended to bring to your attention the difference in the reporting officer's estimation of damage and what the investigating officer said. Also-I agree,the kids who did this should be punished,but as I have indicated there are just so many things that don't add up,and everytime we've spoken to the IO he changes his story just a little bit. I know they are within their rights to fabricate in order to get a confession,however,if my son was home at the time the alleged incident occured,and the other evidence is questionable at the very least,why would they pursue this?

lngentr said:

and he wonders if our police don't have anything more important to do than try to make this a case.

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Yeah. God forbid they DARE to investigate dangerous and criminal acts! The gall fo the police!

lngentr said:

When we first talked to the police ,they told us the damage was $1900,a felony amount.

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Since most of us are not professional assessors, we tend to make estimates based upon our own personal experience, statements of the victim (their estimate), and perhaps standard rates as set elsewhere (Kelly Blue Book, auto repair shops, etc.). Fortunately, the final charges are usually modified to reflect the accurate appraisal. Initially, however, we HAVE to set a dollar amount - so we make the best estimate we can. And usually it IS high. Its an easier task to reduce a charge than it is to raise it.

lngentr said:

Also,the car is very OLD,not even worth $1900. What is your take on this? Also,time of incident was after the boys were home- does it make sense that they will not drop this investigation?

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Apparently SOMETHING has given them some reason to think that the boys were involved. What that might be, none of us can say. If the police and prosecutors can't show it was them, then the case against them won't go any further. But remember, you only have the statement of the boys to go on - you were not there. And frankly, kids lie - especially to avoid trouble. Its a sad fact of life.

Carl

Mr

Correct on all counts-I was not there,and kids do lie-all kids,not just mine. Whatever happened to the idea that they are innocent until PROVEN guilty. The IO told us he went to the high school and talked to some kids_ do you suppose they were lying or is it just the two that offered to take a polygraph test to prove their innocence? I know my child well enough to know that after continued questioning he would eventually falter in his story-and so far that hasn't happened.
It was prom night -I don't suppose any other kids could possibly have been responsible for this and are lying to get the heat off of them,now could it? As for the criminal act-
it's been 2 months- don't you think if they had enough evidence they should have done something by now. I have no problem with the police dept in our town-they do a good job. I just think this investigator is trying to prove a point and he is not looking at all of the possibilities.