neighbor's fence and swingset on our land...options?

mtleblond · Jun 28, 2004

What is the name of your state? NH
We bought a house and an adjoining piece of property in Nov 2003. The person who renovated and sold us the house originally planned on building a house on the adjoining property but ran in to all kinds of problems with the neighbors and the town, so he decided to cut his losses and just sell the land with the house. There is a +/- 200' culvert that runs along the side of the property which borders our neighbor. They had a cheap wire fence erected along the entire length of the culvert seperating the properties when we moved in. I had assumed that the culvert marked the actual property line, but at closing we were given very detailed survey of the property done in order to get approval to build another house. The previous owner spend @$5000 to have this done thinking he was going to cash in on the new house.

This survey shows that in actuality the property line is anything but straight and in fact we have a block of @1500 sq ft of property that juts out beyond the existing culvert and towards our neighbor. The previous owner acknowledged that when he realized he wasnt going to build a house, he didnt spend the extra $$ to have the actual corners pinned and didnt want to get in to it with the neighbors. It was the day of the closing when i got this info so we went ahead with the closing and i went over an introduced myself to the neighbor and let it be known that his fence was on our property AND so was his swingset. I told him i was having the property staked so there wouldn't be any misunderstandings about what was what. He joked about hoping no one said anything for 3 more years so he could assert squatters right's. This is a huge chunk of what he has for a backyard. When the weather got warmer the survey company came back out and staked the property. There are 8 pins because it so odd shaped but his swingset and fence are well on our property. i Figured once he saw the stakes and how obvious the encroachment was , he would move it. Nope...So a couple weeks back, I went over and told him that he needed to move his swing set for liability reasons and i was going to put up a fence along that whole side. There is another property next to him that is a rental building and the tenants are constantly dumping stuff in the culvert so i want to seperate the properties completely. The owner of that property is fine with the fence. So the neighbor starts complaining saying it has been like that for 17 years and no one else ever had a problem. I told him i was open to negotiating for the land but it would be for fair market price. He says maybe we could just work something out quietly and i could just give him that piece of property. I tried not to laugh and told him that wasn't happening. Then he just listened and made faces never saying much besides that.

He never actually said if he was or wasnt going to move the swingset and fence, but if I have a very detailed survey and i paid for the lot lines to be staked, does he have any other recourse? I guess i could just have the fence people tear his down when mine is put up, but i'd like that swingset off my property so i don't get sued when someone takes a dive off of it. Any advice on what i should do if he doesnt comply would be appreciated. Also, what would my required setback be from the property line for the fence? Thanks.

Souix · Jun 28, 2004

mtleblond said:
What is the name of your state? NH
We bought a house and an adjoining piece of property in Nov 2003. The person who renovated and sold us the house originally planned on building a house on the adjoining property but ran in to all kinds of problems with the neighbors and the town, so he decided to cut his losses and just sell the land with the house. There is a +/- 200' culvert that runs along the side of the property which borders our neighbor. They had a cheap wire fence erected along the entire length of the culvert seperating the properties when we moved in. I had assumed that the culvert marked the actual property line, but at closing we were given very detailed survey of the property done in order to get approval to build another house. The previous owner spend @$5000 to have this done thinking he was going to cash in on the new house.

This survey shows that in actuality the property line is anything but straight and in fact we have a block of @1500 sq ft of property that juts out beyond the existing culvert and towards our neighbor. The previous owner acknowledged that when he realized he wasnt going to build a house, he didnt spend the extra $$ to have the actual corners pinned and didnt want to get in to it with the neighbors. It was the day of the closing when i got this info so we went ahead with the closing and i went over an introduced myself to the neighbor and let it be known that his fence was on our property AND so was his swingset. I told him i was having the property staked so there wouldn't be any misunderstandings about what was what. He joked about hoping no one said anything for 3 more years so he could assert squatters right's. This is a huge chunk of what he has for a backyard. When the weather got warmer the survey company came back out and staked the property. There are 8 pins because it so odd shaped but his swingset and fence are well on our property. i Figured once he saw the stakes and how obvious the encroachment was , he would move it. Nope...So a couple weeks back, I went over and told him that he needed to move his swing set for liability reasons and i was going to put up a fence along that whole side. There is another property next to him that is a rental building and the tenants are constantly dumping stuff in the culvert so i want to seperate the properties completely. The owner of that property is fine with the fence. So the neighbor starts complaining saying it has been like that for 17 years and no one else ever had a problem. I told him i was open to negotiating for the land but it would be for fair market price. He says maybe we could just work something out quietly and i could just give him that piece of property. I tried not to laugh and told him that wasn't happening. Then he just listened and made faces never saying much besides that.

He never actually said if he was or wasnt going to move the swingset and fence, but if I have a very detailed survey and i paid for the lot lines to be staked, does he have any other recourse? I guess i could just have the fence people tear his down when mine is put up, but i'd like that swingset off my property so i don't get sued when someone takes a dive off of it. Any advice on what i should do if he doesnt comply would be appreciated. Also, what would my required setback be from the property line for the fence? Thanks.

***You would get the setback info from your city or county planner, whichever it is. I hope you don't have an angry neighbor on your hands because the things you are proposing to do could make life miserable for both of you. Why not try to work something out like he suggested?***

mtleblond · Jun 28, 2004

Like what?

you think i should just give him a large chunk of property i paid for?? i am more than willing to negotiate because A) i dont currently use the land and B) my fence would look nicer in a straight line. but why would i give it to him? and the biggest issue is the liability on the swingset. according to a friend at an insurance company, his homeowners would likely try to deny any claim putting it back on mine. seems like all the risk and loss is on my side. i was more than friendly in both conversations and it's been 7 months since i told him i was having the lot pinned. maybe i was just brought up differently but i would have moved at the least the swing by now and offered cash for the property. if anyone has a good solution i am all ears.

Souix · Jun 28, 2004

mtleblond said:
you think i should just give him a large chunk of property i paid for?? i am more than willing to negotiate because A) i dont currently use the land and B) my fence would look nicer in a straight line. but why would i give it to him? and the biggest issue is the liability on the swingset. according to a friend at an insurance company, his homeowners would likely try to deny any claim putting it back on mine. seems like all the risk and loss is on my side. i was more than friendly in both conversations and it's been 7 months since i told him i was having the lot pinned. maybe i was just brought up differently but i would have moved at the least the swing by now and offered cash for the property. if anyone has a good solution i am all ears.

***I never said to give him anything, re read my post if you must, but you sound like a very angry person already. Hire an attorney to help you negotiate this.***

mtleblond · Jun 28, 2004

Hardly

actually i'm not angry at all, just frustrated. i was too nice in our first meeting and didnt want to get off on the wrong foot so by trying not to be rude i told him where the lines were but never actually requested he move anything. i gave him 7 months by not demanding then. maybe if i had been clearer the first time this would have already been resolved.

and no offense, but i think you should read my first post, the only suggestion he made was me giving him the land for free. he didnt want to talk about anything else. i just want to know if he has any legal recourse, and if i have covered all my bases. not looking to be a jerk on here or with the neighbor. seems like a nice guy but he was taking advantage of the previous owner who never knew all that land was theirs until they sold to a builder. he's convinced at 20 years the land becomes his so he was hoping no one said anything for a couple more years.

not trying to be rude or an angry jerk. didnt mean the post to come across that way. neither conversation had a hint of anger. i do appreciate the feedback though.

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

My response:

Look, this is all bull****.

The property is yours. So, take a bulldozer and take down his trespassing fence and swingset. There is NO "squatting" - - he can do that on a toilet.

This is your land, and to hell with what he "thinks" is his. He's some Yahoo who heard something about "rights" from his great-grandmother Tilly's journal from 1879, and thinks it's the law. Bullcrap!

Start acting like a property owner. You don't need anybody's "permission" to deal with your land, and to doze anything on your land.

IAAL

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

My response:

First, take photographs of the fence and swingset. Have their placements documented on your survey - - THEN bulldoze.

Then, send the neighbor the bill for the bulldozer rental and the fee for hauling away his junk. When he won't, or refuses, to pay after 30 days, sue his ass for trespass to your land, and for your incurred bills.

Your neighbor must be a Meth addict to believe he can get away with such bullcrap.

IAAL

Souix · Jun 28, 2004

mtleblond said:
actually i'm not angry at all, just frustrated. i was too nice in our first meeting and didnt want to get off on the wrong foot so by trying not to be rude i told him where the lines were but never actually requested he move anything. i gave him 7 months by not demanding then. maybe if i had been clearer the first time this would have already been resolved.

and no offense, but i think you should read my first post, the only suggestion he made was me giving him the land for free. he didnt want to talk about anything else. i just want to know if he has any legal recourse, and if i have covered all my bases. not looking to be a jerk on here or with the neighbor. seems like a nice guy but he was taking advantage of the previous owner who never knew all that land was theirs until they sold to a builder. he's convinced at 20 years the land becomes his so he was hoping no one said anything for a couple more years.

not trying to be rude or an angry jerk. didnt mean the post to come across that way. neither conversation had a hint of anger. i do appreciate the feedback though.

***No offense to you either, but I did read your long long post that could have been just a few sentences. How does 'negotiate' translate into 'give him what he wants'? You can do what IAAL says and possibly create a monster or you can negotiate, the choice is your's. Good Luck!***

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

Souix said:
***No offense to you either, but I did read your long long post that could have been just a few sentences. How does 'negotiate' translate into 'give him what he wants'? You can do what IAAL says and possibly create a monster or you can negotiate, the choice is your's. Good Luck!***

My response:

Why would a "monster" be created?

Do you believe that taking this writer's property gives the neighbor some "right" to fight for what isn't his in the first place?

Do you not agree that a property owner can do what he wants with and to his own real estate?

Screw the neighbor!! The neighbor caused the trespass! Our writer is only taking dominion over what is rightfully his, and what he's paid for, and still paying for in the way of property taxation.

I'll tell you what, Souix - - you come to my home and erect a fence around a portion of my land, and watch what happens to you!

IAAL

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

Souix said:
How does 'negotiate' translate into 'give him what he wants'?

My response:

Souix, "negotiate" implies, from its very meaning, to "give" something to the neighbor - - that the neighbor is "entitled" to something. If there's no legal entitlement to any of the property, then what is there to "negotiate"?

Can you please explain that - - or exactly what you mean by "negotiate"?

IAAL

Souix · Jun 28, 2004

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE said:
My response:

Souix, "negotiate" implies, from its very meaning, to "give" something to the neighbor - - that the neighbor is "entitled" to something. If there's no legal entitlement to any of the property, then what is there to "negotiate"?

Can you please explain that - - or exactly what you mean by "negotiate"?

IAAL

***On paper, yes the property is the OP's, but you are forgetting that this is a person you are dealing with. All I am suggesting is that the OP tell the neighbor that they will be removing his fence and the swingset.....the way I read it, they were not even going to give him any notice at all, just tear down the fence and see what happens. It is human nature for this guy to get mad, he may not have any recourse, but he still can get mad. Who wants to live next door to somebody like that? I certainly don't. So the choice is the OP's.***

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

Souix said:
***On paper, yes the property is the OP's, but you are forgetting that this is a person you are dealing with. All I am suggesting is that the OP tell the neighbor that they will be removing his fence and the swingset.....the way I read it, they were not even going to give him any notice at all, just tear down the fence and see what happens. It is human nature for this guy to get mad, he may not have any recourse, but he still can get mad. Who wants to live next door to somebody like that? I certainly don't. So the choice is the OP's.***

My response:

Oh, so that's what you mean by "negotiate" - - telling the neighbor what's going to happen before it happens. Okay, now I understand you.

I understand you're full of sh*t.

IAAL

Souix · Jun 28, 2004

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE said:
My response:

Oh, so that's what you mean by "negotiate" - - telling the neighbor what's going to happen before it happens. Okay, now I understand you.

I understand you're full of sh*t.

IAAL

***Hmmmm thats sweet, but regardless of what you think of me and what I am full of, the fact remains that it will be the OP's ultimate decision on who he or she wants to live next door to. So my advice stands. Give notice that he or she is going to remove the fence and swingset (don't just arbitrarily remove it without notice) and then talk about the situation from there on out. I've read about too many disputes on this forum and TROs regarding the issue of next door neighbors making the OPs life a living hell. OP, do a search regarding "boundaries and/or "disputes regarding boundaries" and you will see what I mean.***

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE · Jun 28, 2004

Souix said:
***Hmmmm thats sweet, but regardless of what you think of me and what I am full of, the fact remains that it will be the OP's ultimate decision on who he or she wants to live next door to. So my advice stands. Give notice that he or she is going to remove the fence and swingset (don't just arbitrarily remove it without notice) and then talk about the situation from there on out. I've read about too many disputes on this forum and TROs regarding the issue of next door neighbors making the OPs life a living hell. OP, do a search regarding "boundaries and/or "disputes regarding boundaries" and you will see what I mean.***

My response:

Oh, brother. You'll say anything to justify yourself.

These people are NOT next-door neighbors in the sense that you and I would think. These "neighbors" are about 1/4 mile or more apart from each other's "doors". How much interaction do you think these two are going to have?

Why would our writer need to "telegraph" his intentions and receive "permission", so to speak, from someone who admits his intent in trying to steal our writer's property? This "admission" occurred AFTER our writer received a certified survey and report! Read the damn post, Souix.

You're a bit loopy. It's not as if they're close enough to be throwing eggs at each other's house!

IAAL

Souix · Jun 29, 2004

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE said:
My response:

Oh, brother. You'll say anything to justify yourself.

These people are NOT next-door neighbors in the sense that you and I would think. These "neighbors" are about 1/4 mile or more apart from each other's "doors". How much interaction do you think these two are going to have?

Why would our writer need to "telegraph" his intentions and receive "permission", so to speak, from someone who admits his intent in trying to steal our writer's property? This "admission" occurred AFTER our writer received a certified survey and report! Read the damn post, Souix.

You're a bit loopy. It's not as if they're close enough to be throwing eggs at each other's house!

IAAL

***Huh? 1/4 mile is that all? I don't think it matters much how far apart they are, there would still be a dispute and someone still is going to get mad. We had a dispute with our neighbor when we moved to our 10 acre property and he was 18 acres away. I can say first hand that it is not fun living next door to an angry neighbor***

neighbor's fence and swingset on our land...options?

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