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Speeding timed by .043 miles

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J

jm1389

Guest
What is the name of your state? Pennsylvania
I was pulled over for speeding on my motorcycle while riding with two friends. We pulled out from an alley in town and started traveling together. When we pulled out there was a car approx. half a mile behind us coming through town. After approx. 1/4 of a mile after we pulled out I speed up from the other two friends while remaining still in first gear. The officer said that he clocked me doing 68.1 in a 25mph zone. The officer was behind my two friends while he clocked me using a Robic SC 800 ( Stopwatch I think ).Then he passed my friends with no lights turned on and came behind me to pull me over. My questions are: The distance that is noted on the citation is .043 in 2.27 secs. This a really short distance to be timing and I do not see how he accurately came up with this distance to time me while he was behind two motorcyclists that were traveling the speed limit behind me. Is this distance a large enough distance to be admissable? Is an officer allowed to travel over the speed limit and pass in a no passing zone without their lighting turned on? The ticket was only marked as being 161 dollars and this seems low. It was for violating section 3362 sub-section A3. Is there something that I am missing? Any help will greatly be appreciated.
Later that night I tried to go 68 miles an hour while remaining in 1st gear and my motorcycle would only go just over 50 mph while in 1st gear. For this reason I know that I was not traveling at 68 mph when this happen.
 
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J

jm1389

Guest
Thank You Paradise. I am looking for something that is more like a policy or procedure that police must follow when performing stops for speeding. Minimum timing distances and such...
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
jm1389 said:
My questions are: The distance that is noted on the citation is .043 in 2.27 secs. This a really short distance to be timing and I do not see how he accurately came up with this distance
Traffic officers often pre-measure certain distances in problem areas and use the time it takes to travers that distance to calculate the speed. And the fact that he had a stopwatch with him indicates to me that he did just that. Its a very sound principal and works quite effectively - better than radar, actually.

Is this distance a large enough distance to be admissable?
Yes.

Is an officer allowed to travel over the speed limit and pass in a no passing zone without their lighting turned on?
Over the limit - probably yes, pass in a no passing zone - probably not. But that is an issue seperate from YOUR speeding and not at all a defense to your speed.

The ticket was only marked as being 161 dollars and this seems low. It was for violating section 3362 sub-section A3. Is there something that I am missing? Any help will greatly be appreciated.
Well, there could be fees and assessments tacked on at court ... but I'm not familiar with PA traffic fines so I can't say for sure.

Later that night I tried to go 68 miles an hour while remaining in 1st gear and my motorcycle would only go just over 50 mph while in 1st gear. For this reason I know that I was not traveling at 68 mph when this happen.
That's a better argument than the one about him passing you. But, if the officer has a pre-measured distance that he frequently times, and he is primarily a traffic enforcement officer, I suspect that the officer's opinion will prevail.

I am looking for something that is more like a policy or procedure that police must follow when performing stops for speeding. Minimum timing distances and such...
And I don't think you'll find any. I don't know of any agency that has that kind of a policy, and unless there is case law in PA that establishes a minimum pace distance, I doubt you'll see one. And I have yet to hear of a min. pacing distance in the law. An individual court may not accept a pace of .043 miles if the officer is PACING someone, but if he is doing a visual timing of a pre-measured distance, I suspect they will.



Carl
 
J

jm1389

Guest
It is my understanding that in the state of PA there is a difference between a citation and a ticket. What I received indicates that it is a citation at the top of it. How can I tell the difference between a citation that and a ticket that will invovle points and everything else. As I have been told that a citation only means that I have to pay the fine and that is it.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
There IS a PA law enforcement officer on these boards, maybe he can answer your question. But I THINK the terms "ticket" and "citation" are interchangeable. Some states use the term "summons" to refer to a complaint they receive later, and that may be for a criminal act.

My guess is that this matter can be resolved by a fine only, hence the citation.

You should be notified by mail as to your options. If not, I'd suggest you contact the court and find out how to pay it off or go to traffic school if that's the route you want to take.

Otherwise, show up at the court hearing and take it from there.

Carl
 

biglittle

Member
§ 3368. Speed timing devices.
(a) Speedometers authorized.--The rate of speed of any vehicle may be timed on any highway by a police officer using a motor vehicle equipped with a speedometer. In ascertaining the speed of a vehicle by the use of a speedometer, the speed shall be timed for a distance of not less than three-tenths of a mile.

They only need 3/10's of a mile to clock you by speedometer. I don't see anything that says what distance using other devices. It just says "any two points".

"Electronic devices which calculate speed by measuring elapsed time between measured road surface points by using two sensors and devices which measure and calculate the average speed of a vehicle between any two points may be used by any police officer. "
 

Bravo8

Member
There is no minimum distance required if using any speed timing device other than a speedometer. As Biglittle posted, if using the speedometer, then a minimum distance of 3/10 of one mile is required.

If the officer timed you using Robic (basically a glorified stop watch), he would have had to know the measured distance beforehand. Robic (aka Accutrack) has no means of which to simultaneously measure distance while timing (unlike VASCAR and Tracker).

A citation is the proper term, "ticket" is bascially slang for a citation. In other words, they are one and the same.

.043 of one mile is about 200, 250 feet. Most of our pre-determined speed zones are between 100 and 200 feet, so that is certainly an accepted distance.

$161 sounds about right. The fine itself is only a small portion of that, all the costs are included in that figrue. If that sounds low to you, great....go pay your citation.
 

GMinckler

Junior Member
PA Robic SC800

I also was pulled over on a motorcycle in PA.
Robic is a timing device they use to time between lines painted on road around here.
Citation stated i was going 69.7. But I know I as not going that fast.

see calulations:

Citation states I was going 69.7 in 50 mph zone.
Officer used Robic SC800 with .043 miles timed and 2.67 sec timed.
One mile is 5280 feet so distance calculates out to 227.04 feet, cover in 2.67 seconds.
Calculated speed is 85.03 ft per second.
Multiplied by 60 to converted speed in minutes. ( 5102.02 ft per minute)
Multiplied by 60 again to convert to mph. (306121.35 ft per hour)
Divided by 5280 feet to convert to mph equals 57.97 mph.
How can he right ticket for 69.7mph???????
 

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