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Neighbor says my child killed her child

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rickohshey

Guest
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California

My neighbor asked me if my 5 year old daughter could go swimming with her almost 3 year old and her 4 year old. Her 16 year old daughter was going to supervise the 3 kids. She then asked me if it was okay for my daughter to go without floaties. I told her it was okay because my daughter can swim well and I felt her 16 year old was capable of watching them.

Shortly after they left for the pool which is a community pool for our complex and no lifeguard on duty, my wife who was home from work sick expressed her concern for our daughter being watched by the 16 year old. I told her I thought it was okay but I’d call the mother for some reassurance and possibly go to the pool. I used the excuse of wanting to know if my daughter had a towel and then asked if she thought her daughter was capable of watching the 3 kids. She assured me it was fine and that she had done it many times before.

About an hour or two later, we heard sirens very close and I immediately went to the pool out of concern. When I arrived the 16 year old was crying hysterically and being questioned by a sheriff. I saw my daughter running around crying heavily and picked her up to comfort her. I then asked the grandmother who had already arrived there what happened and she told me that the nearly 3 year old had drowned and it didn’t look like she’d make it. I retuned with my daughter home and told my wife who was devastated by the news as was I.

Unfortunately, the child died we found out an hour or so later. We tried to be there for their family to comfort them and offer support, but by the 2nd day we realized something was just not right and came to realize through others in the neighborhood that the mother had convinced herself that my daughter removed her child’s floaties and caused her death. We were very hurt by this and there was absolutely no evidence whatsoever to back her claim, but we decided to just give her space and not cause her grief by bringing it up.

My wife tried to approach her and see how she was doing about a week later and she told my wife that she hated my daughter and that she hated us and that my daughter was evil and other comments. My wife walked away and we haven’t spoken to them since.

We have now heard through other neighbors that she is telling everyone that my daughter killed her daughter and to stay away from her. She is also telling everyone that she is going to sue us. Her accusation has also escalated to accusing my daughter of removing the floaties and actually pushing her into the water and watching her drown. It’s sickening what she has rationalized as the truth. Comments made to my wife by her before we stopped communicating with them made us realize how distorted her thinking really was.

This whole experience has been difficult for us, but we have not spoken to their family out of respect for their loss and we don’t want to upset them in their time of grief. We also feel it is best not to say anything in case we end up in litigation over this. We are however getting to the point where we are not going to sit back and let her bash our daughter continuously. We are thinking of talking to an attorney about the matter to see if there is anything we should do at this point. It’s been over 2 months now and we’ve been more than patient about the whole thing; letting her try and get through the different stages of grief etc. Enough is enough though, and we are not going to just turn the other check anymore.

I am curious of how others feel about our situation, and encourage comments.

Thanks for listening.
 


That's Crazy!

That's Crazy!

It probably wouldn't hurt to consult a few lawyers. Most of them give some free legal advice when discussing and explaining the situation and then you can decide what to do from there.
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
Are you all nuts?

(QUOTE)About an hour or two later, we heard sirens very close and I immediately went to the pool out of concern(QUOTE)

And where were you again Dad?

The mother was sleeping as she allowed her 5 yr old to swim in the "Apartment" pool. Of course it is not her fault, and a child died due to the careless actions of all involved.

What good parent allows his 5 year old to jump in with no safety? What good mother is sleeping while the sirens are being heard?


Apparently you had been home for a while, so you just heard the sirens? Where were you? Not checking on your daughter!
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
I have three children - 10, 8 and 4. We do not let teenage girls watch them swim even though each of them swims like a fish. We may allow a Lifeguard to watch over them at a community pool WHILE WE ARE THERE.

I cannot recall a single time where an adult (competent and responsible) was not directly supervising our children even at a community pool with lifeguards. My 4-year-old does not need floaties, but sure as heck does not mean I would EVER let him go off to swim without direct supervision by my wife or I. It just would NOT happen.

This whole event is sickening. And I have pulled drowning victims from the water ... and children from pools ... and it is the most tragic thing the police and/or fire personnel who responded will ever have to do.

There is ample blame to go around. The children were not properly supervised. To put that responsibility on a 16-year-old child - no matter HOW responsible she is - is plain wrong. That poor girl will now have to live with the guilt (and possibly the self-blame) of her sister's death.

There is not a whole lot you can do about them "bashing" your daughter except to move. They can say almost anything they want to. As long as it is not knowingly false, I doubt there is much you can do. Keep in mind that they are grieving, suffering and feeling guilt ... they will eventually move past it. But it takes time.

In the meantime, hopefully EVERYONE has learned the importance of directly supervising their children. Particularly when they are swimming. It's not like the girl was watching the kids while mom went shopping ... she was watching three kids who could probably barely swim! My God! I wouldn't want to do that, and I used to BE a lifeguard!

My prayers will be for that little girl and her family.

Carl
 
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rickohshey

Guest
Moderators. After further review, I realize this is probably not the best category for this post. I understand if you find the need to move it.

PARIDISE

I’m not sure if you are completely understanding the facts, or just wanting to pass judgment on us.

I realize it’s easy to sit behind a screen name and act as if you’ve never made a bad decision and your crud don’t stink etc. I’ve also noticed that many posts here are just people trying to cause trouble and get off on stirring the pot. If that’s what blows your skirt up, then knock yourself out.

In case I wasn’t clear in my original post, my daughter is a very good swimmer. There are people who go their whole life without learning to swim, so age isn’t the entire indicator of when you let a child swim unassisted. Whether my child had floaties on or not is irrelevant. She’s not the one who died here. If something had happened to her, I’m sure I would have been hating myself for having a false sense of security about her swimming abilities. In fact, this incident has made many of us more aware of how dangerous pools are. Unfortunately, a child usually has to die for us to put our guards up when we start to let them down.

The fact is, this tragedy could have happened whether my daughter was present or not. She was invited to the pool by the mother of the child who drown. I entrusted her 16 year old with my daughter’s life and I was fortunate that it was not my daughter who drown. Would I do it again? Heck no! I wish we could all be perfect as others think they are, but it doesn’t always happen.

If you feel the need to get up on your almighty soap box and pass judgment on me and my wife, then feel free. I realize that many wouldn’t let their 5 year go off with a 16 year old, and in hind sight, we second guess our decision as well.

I guess I’m lucky I live in a condo and not a trailer park. It seems to have quite a bearing on the responses in this forum.

Java,

Thanks for your thoughts. We feel the 16 year old daughter has to bear some of the blame, but the ultimate responsibility is on the mother. There’s certainly blame to go around, but to blame a 5 year old is ludicrous in our opinion. The actions of the mother can end up having a very negative effect on my daughter and it’s natural for us to want to protect her. You might be right; we may have to move to really get this thing behind us, although it will always be there to some degree.

Our prayers are with their family as well, regardless of the circumstances.
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
(QUOTE)About an hour or two later, we heard sirens very close(QUOTE)

AGAIN.. Where are you ? You stated you and the wife we're in your apartment for a couple of hours while this is taking place.
 
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rickohshey

Guest
rickohshey said:
I’m not sure if you are completely understanding the facts, or just wanting to pass judgment on us.
Thank you for clarifying ;)

Now that we have established your stance on our abilities as parents, I’m curious as to your opinion on our daughter being subjected to accusations that she is a killer, and being blamed for the death? Any input on that?

I realize you aren’t the only one who feels we lacked judgment for allowing the 16 year old to watch our daughter, but getting past that, any comments regarding the rest of the situation?
 
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Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
rickohshey said:
Thank you for clarifying ;)

Now that we have established your stance on our abilities as parents, I’m curious as to your opinion on our daughter being subjected to accusations that she is a killer, and being blamed for the death? Any input on that?

I realize you aren’t the only one who feels we lacked judgment for allowing the 16 year old to watch our daughter, but getting past that, any comments regarding the rest of the situation?

She is 5 years old, I would think you as a parent would not subject her to hearing accusations of her being a killer. Where is your head?
 
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rickohshey

Guest
After searching your posts on other threads, I now understand why you frequent this forum and what you are trying to accomplish.

Good luck to you…….
 

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
rickohshey said:
After searching your posts on other threads, I now understand why you frequent this forum and what you are trying to accomplish.

Good luck to you…….

I post very rarely, but that is not the point. A child is dead due to YOUR negligence, and the mother of the child who passed away.

You don't understand anything, except looking up post's, when you should be caring for your 5 yr. old.

Bash me all you want. Tell me your opinion all you want. I am not the one who is seeking help here am I?

Your daughter is probobly in a crises, and one can only hope that you get help for all involved.
 
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rickohshey

Guest
--PARIDISE-- said:
I post very rarely, but that is not the point.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco, California
Posts: 563 :eek:

I realize you think you’ve got it all figured out, and have all the answers. It’s unfortunate that many of the posters here don’t see right through you as I do and end up feeling worse than they did before asking for help.

Real people with real problems reaching out for help. I’m not sure if you think its funny, or what your motivation is, but your sad little game is surely going to push someone without the sense to see you for who your really are over the edge.

You’re so quick to pass judgment on others when you have so little knowledge of their situations. You try to point out the irresponsibility of others any chance you get. You are worse than the ones you accuse by your reckless comments and what you try to pass off as advice.

I suggest you leave the responses to people who can contribute to the threads in a positive manner and find another way to make up for something you are certainly lacking.

If you think I don’t regret the decisions we made that day you’re sadly mistaken. Like the others you’ve tried to intimidate, we think about it every day. To suggest that I’ve foregone my child’s welfare in lieu of making a post here is a pathetic attempt to discredit me. My whole family was in a counselor’s office shortly after the incident. We’re trying to get on with our lives like others here with difficult situations. What good do you think you are doing by putting them down?

Regardless of what I say, you will try to come back with another witty response. You can remind me that a child is dead all you want but it is not necessary; I think about it all the time. I look forward to the day our lives can get back to as close to normal as possible.

I’m truly sorry you feel the need to make so many people feel worse then they already do and I hope some day you are able to reach way down and come to terms with whatever it is that is causing you to do this.

Like I said before……..Good luck to you, I think you’re really going to need it.
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
I have a question - how do you know the mother's claims aren't true, i.e., your kid, the excellent, no-floatie swimmer, didn't think that everyone else doesn't need floaties and take off the 3 year old's? Presumably, if there were any witnesses, the 3 year old wouldn't have drowned, so how does anyone know what "really" happened? (For all we know, the 4 year old could have done it to her and the mom just can't handle that idea).


Being that the truth is a defense to slander, this becomes a rather important inssue.
 

nextwife

Senior Member
Whether your child removed the gloaties or not is irrelevent. A 5 tear old is not capable of understanding consequesnces and floaties should NEVER be relied on with young kids!!!!! My daughter used them. but ONLY when we were on vacation and walking around the big pools. so that IF she fell in, she'd be safe for a moment until we followed her in and fished her out. She only used them in deeper water WHEN WE WERE in the water next to her. teaching her. It is insane to have kids in above their nose water at that age, floatie or not. I restrict my kid to water that she can stand in, unless I am literally next to her. No three year old should be allowed in water above their head unless an adult is in the pool next to them supervising attentively.

If the sitter SAW the floaties being removed, WHY was she not immediately in the pool removing the child or reloacting them to the shallow end. Why wasn't she in the pool the whole time. NEXT to the kids, keeping them all in arm's length? Who ever told any of you that RELYING on floatation devices should ever be done with little kids?

You were all wrong to allow kids that age in a guardless pool in above the head water, but the 5 year old is NOT responsible.

BTW-Counseling might be a good idea to help your child deal with all this..
 
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rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
The police haven't suggested your child was at fault or you for her not being supervised by you.

It is legal in California for a 16 yearold to supervise younger children, but is it advisable is another question if they are not a lifeguard.

The mother of the dead child is grieving and feeling guilty because she knows that she is responsible and it is a natural response to try to find som reason to share that guilt.
1. She should have been supervising them herself.
2. Neither the 3 or 4 yearold swam well and she knew it.
3. It was her daughter supervising them.
4. She invited your child or at least extended her children's invitation.
5. She assured you her daughter was capable of supervising the 3 small children.
6. The pool has signs up disclaiming responsibility because therre is no lifeguard.
So she has 6 reasons to look for someone else to blame and you and your daughter are the only ones to share responsibility.
YOU do share responsibility on a moral basis at least.

Tragic deaths by drowning are not limited to children living in trailer parks or apartments, it happens nearly everyday during the summer, even famous people.
Can she sue?
Can she sue the Apartment?
Will anyone take her case?
Will she win?

We have only the facts you present here but she can cause a lot of damage without bringing a lawsuit and cost you a lot of money you likely won't recover if she sues and you fight it or she loses, because she lives in an apartment with no real property to attach and who would go after a grieving mother?

Has anyone made a report to CPS, is she capable of caring for her children at least during her grief?

You can sue her for slander if what she is saying in not true, but what is there to collect and how does that look?

You can get a restraining order while you consider options, make sure you report her threats and harassment to the police, they may counsel her and also give you advise as to how to obtain the order. You can contact your local youth and family services, there may be services available, also check with the schools even though it is summer, they can contact the local "critical incident" management team to provide community counseling services & guidance, perhaps to come out to the apartment complex to provide some conseling and help organize some safety programs for the residents, the police may also have similar services.

As tragic as this is, there may be ways to keep it from happening again.

Is the apartment pool still open? Have they changed the rules to only adult supervision?
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
nextwife said:
Whether your child removed the gloaties or not is irrelevent.
I beg to differ. The OP wants to know what she can do to stop the other mother up from saying the OP's child killed her child. A suit for slander would work, but not if her kid really did kill the other one. Ergo, my question - how does anyone know what actually happened at the pool? Was there a witness? Who?

I didn't ask for negligence reasons (which is suggested by the wording of the rest of your reply). Even I wouldn't hold a five year old responsible for something like that...
 

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