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Old photos

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S

stingb

Guest
I live in Illinois.

I was wondering if someone could provide an input on reproducing old photos. I have a number of old family photos, some of them are in pretty bad shape. They range in age from 90 to 60 years old, and were all taken outside of the USA. I've decided to scan them, edit out the blemishes and imperfections in PhotoShop, and re-print them - all with strictly archiving purposes, for family use only. However, the last time sales person in the local store (I probably should not name any names, just mention that it is not a specialty photo shop but rather a department store with a PictureMaker machine) refused to let me make a copy. When I stated that the pictures are over 75 years old, she said "How can you prove that?" I had to call two managers before I could have the picture printed.
Could someone elighten me here - does the copyright say that there is no way to make a copy of an old picture? Some of them are taken at home, some of them in the studio - although there is no way to track them down after so many years. The salesperson seems to think that any old black-and-white picture is copyrighted. Does this law even apply to the picture taken outside of the USA? Especially home taken picures? Does the fact that I have altered picture in PhotoShop matter here?
What can I do or say to have those picture reproduced?

I will greatly appreciate any input on this.
 


divgradcurl

Senior Member
The problem you are running into here is that Walmart, or whoever is providng the printing servies, is terrified of being held "contributarily liable" or "vicariously liable" (more likely) for copyright infringement -- because they have deep pockets, they are a prime target for lawsuits. So, they err on the side of hyper-conservative in order to prevent themselves from being named on a complaint for infringement.

When I stated that the pictures are over 75 years old, she said "How can you prove that?"
That's the crux of the problem -- how do you prove it? How do you prove you own the pictures? How do you prove how old they are? Plus, how much proff do you need to show -- sure, if this were a court we could figure out how to do it, but how do you "prove" it to a 19-year-old Walmart employee who only knows that he or she has been told not to allow people to reproduce "copyrighted" photos?

Besides, 75 years isn't "quite" old enough -- pictures taken before 1923 are in the public domain -- anything newer than that may or may not be...

Could someone elighten me here - does the copyright say that there is no way to make a copy of an old picture?
Unless the picture is old enough to have moved into the public domain, the age of the picture is really irrelevant. So, if the picture is not quite old enough to have moved into the public domain, then whether or not you can reproduce a picture that you don't own the copyright to will depend on whether or not your reproduction is a "fair use" of the work or not -- again, how are you going to explain THAT to the aformentioned employee!

Some of them are taken at home, some of them in the studio - although there is no way to track them down after so many years.
And that brings everything back to a "proof" issue!

Does this law even apply to the picture taken outside of the USA? Especially home taken picures?
Maybe.

Does the fact that I have altered picture in PhotoShop matter here?
Well, if you have "sufficiently" altered them, you may have created a "derivative work" which YOU own the copyright to -- unfortunately, if the underlying work is still covered by copyright, that doesn't really do you any good...

What can I do or say to have those picture reproduced?
What did they say when you asked them?

This isn't a court of law we are talking about -- it's a department store, and they can set up their regulations however they want. If you can't get them to print out your photos, maybe somewhere else can. You can't make them do it -- you can only work with them, and hope they allow you to make the prints.

Is their any way you could just buy your won printer and do it yourself? That way you wouldn't need to worry about it. The newer inkjet printers in the $250 range produce pretty damn fine output with glossy photo paper -- and besides, that's all Wlamart is using to print your photos anyway.

Sort of off topic: In reality, even though a picture taken after 1923 is potentially still covered by copyright, before 1976, you had to include a copyright notice on your pictures or it would immediately move into the public domain. Further, you needed to register your photos with the copyright office, and pay fees to renew the copyright terms. So, practically, unless the pictures were taken by professionals, the pictures are almost certainly in the public domain, and you are free to reproduce them or create derivative works from them without limit.

The trouble, again, is convincing the department store of that...
 
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