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Battery in Tort

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RandallFabiano

Guest
What is the name of your state? California

Now if I understand this correctly, battery in tort is not covered under MIRCA right? (Perry V. Shaw)... the courts in their infinate wisdom have said that battery does not arise from professional negligence... My question is this...
Can you sue for Battery, false imprisonment, and intrinsic fraud all predicated upon one incident that could seemingly also be interpreted on the negligence theory of a doctor or hospital? If so, can't you circumvent the negligence claim all together and just sue for the torts. thereby circumventing the monitary caps and the rules of civil procedure that prohibits a plaintiff from including punitive damages on the claim of action?
 
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I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
RandallFabiano said:
What is the name of your state? California

Now if I understand this correctly, battery in tort is not covered under MIRCA right? (Perry V. Shaw)... the courts in their infinate wisdom have said that battery does not arise from professional negligence... My question is this...
Can you sue for Battery, false imprisonment, and intrinsic fraud all predicated upon one incident that could seemingly also be interpreted on the negligence theory of a doctor or hospital? If so, can't you circumvent the negligence claim all together and just sue for the torts. thereby circumventing the monitary caps and the rules of civil procedure that prohibits a plaintiff from including punitive damages on the claim of action?


My response:

By its terms, Ca Civ Pro § 364 applies only to actions for "professional negligence."

This term has been interpreted by some courts to exclude causes of action for intentional torts (e.g., battery). [Noble v. Sup.Ct. (Katz) (1987) 191 Cal.App.3d 1189, 1192, 237 Cal.Rptr. 38, 40; Perry v. Shaw (2001) 88 Cal.App.4th 658, 668, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d 70, 77]

However, in a different context (the Ca Civ Pro § 425.13 non-MICRA provisions limiting punitive damage claims against health care providers, the Supreme Court has interpreted "professional negligence" more broadly: "(A)n action for damages arises out of the professional negligence of a health care provider if the injury for which damages are sought is directly related to the professional services provided by the health care provider." [Central Pathology Service Med. Clinic, Inc. v. Sup.Ct. (Hull) (1992) 3 Cal.4th 181, 187, 10 Cal.Rptr.2d 208, 212 (emphasis added)]

Although ultimately declining to decide whether "professional negligence" as defined by MICRA encompasses intentional torts, the Supreme Court has indicated that Central Pathology's expansive interpretation (above) would not apply in the MICRA context: "Central Pathology did not purport to define the meaning of the term 'professional negligence' as used in MICRA." [Barris v. County of Los Angeles (1999) 20 Cal.4th 101, 116, 83 Cal.Rptr.2d 145, 154-155--meaning of "professional negligence" varies depending upon legislative history and purpose of underlying statute]

The Medical Injury Compensation Reform Act of 1975 (MICRA) was enacted in an effort to control the rising cost of medical malpractice insurance. [See Barris v. County of Los Angeles (1999) 20 Cal.4th 101, 108, 83 Cal.Rptr.2d 145, 149; Perry v. Shaw (2001) 88 Cal.App.4th 658, 667, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d 70, 76]

MICRA affects a "professional negligence" action against a "health care provider" by (among other things) limiting plaintiff's attorney fees and imposing the following restrictions on recoverable damages:

• A $250,000 "cap" on general damages (pain and suffering);

• The right to request periodic payment of future damages awards of $50,000 or more; and

• Abolition of the "collateral source rule" in regard to medical malpractice defendants.

Ca Civil § 3333.2 general damages cap:
The $250,000 ceiling on general damages liability passes muster under both the Federal and California State Constitutions. The statute is deemed "rationally related" to the "legitimate state interest" in alleviating the pressure on malpractice insurance rates (limiting recoveries is a rational means of curbing rise in medical malpractice insurance costs). [Fein v. Permanente Med. Group (1985) 38 Cal.3d 137, 211 Cal.Rptr. 368; Yates v. Pollock (1987) 194 Cal.App.3d 195, 200, 239 Cal.Rptr. 383, 385-386--per Fein reasoning, no unconstitutional abridgement of right to jury trial; see Perry v. Shaw, supra, 88 Cal.App.4th at 667-668, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d at 77]

Medical battery (unconsented/deceptive procedure):
A medical battery based on a medical procedure performed without the patient's consent (as where the patient consents to one type of treatment and the physician performs an entirely different procedure) is not subject to the MICRA statutory cap on noneconomic damages (Ca Civil § 3333.2). "[T]here is nothing in the legislative history generally or with regard to section 3333.2 specifically to suggest that the Legislature intended to extend the $250,000 limitation to intentional torts." [Perry v. Shaw (2001) 88 Cal.App.4th 658, 669-670, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d 70, 78--MICRA cap inapplicable where P's emotional distress damages resulted from "overlapping" medical battery and medical negligence (unwanted surgery)]

Most likely, medical battery would be outside the scope of other MICRA provisions (Ca Civil § 3333.1 abolition of collateral source rule, Ca Civ Pro § 667.7 periodic payment of future damages, etc.) for the same reasons identified in Perry. But the Perry court dealt only with Ca Civil § 3333.2.

Other intentional torts?
Whether the Perry reasoning removes other intentional torts in the rendition of medical services from the purview of MICRA is an open question. The Perry court emphasized that its holding was limited to lack of consent medical battery cases. [Perry v. Shaw, supra, 88 Cal.App.4th at 662, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d at 72, fn. 2]

Limitation on Damages Recoverable for "Noneconomic Losses" (Ca Civil § 3333.2):
Under Ca Civil § 3333.2, damages for "noneconomic losses" in an injury action against a health care provider based on professional negligence cannot exceed $250,000. [Ca Civil § 3333.2; Fein v. Permanente Med. Group (1985) 38 Cal.3d 137, 157-164, 211 Cal.Rptr. 368, 382-387; Western Steamship Lines, Inc. v. San Pedro Peninsula Hosp. (1994) 8 Cal.4th 100, 107, 32 Cal.Rptr.2d 263, 266; compare Perry v. Shaw (2001) 88 Cal.App.4th 658, 669-670, 106 Cal.Rptr.2d 70, 78--§ 3333.2 cap inapplicable in medical battery action because not "based upon professional negligence"]

IAAL
 
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RandallFabiano

Guest
Thank you for the intelligent response...

the thing is I am involved right now in the pre-litigation process against a doctor and hospital for these torts. I took my soon to a hospital's emergency room, they wanted to cathterize him. Before the proceedure began I told the Nurse and Doctor to stop and peform the Bag cathter, they emphatically refused my request.. I told them stop and tried to remove my child to which they called security and said they would hold my son until a court order to intervene was made... The thing is I never signed a consent form for the hospital, I was never provided any paperwork what so ever.. My son's condition was also not a qualified emergency.. Which is why I wanted a second opinion.. When I called the hopsital the next day, the administrative executive had pulled my sons' file. She admitted that there was a series of reckless mistakes in paper work and level of care.. She said she apologized and that she said the hospital would take care of my sons medical expenses. To this dfate which is a month later I have never received a medical bill from the hospital. In fact now, they are claiming that the medical records are missing...
So I have begun the process of suing them for battery, negligence, false imprisonment, invasion (Intrusive) of privacy, negligent infliction of emotional distress among other things.. I think I have a good case.. Since I am law student I was thinking about proceeding with this case pro se on behalf of my son and myself.. Any draw backs? Take in mind the was proximate injury caused which was the ripping and tearing of his urethra which caused him to be hospitalized two days later at a different hospital, where they found significant bleeding in the urine.. . He is okay now, but I want justice for my son... This was ridiculous... Any thoughts?
 
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Consentlaw

Guest
Well Mr. Fabiano.

I dont know, your case seems a little simple but equally complex. The long and short answer is this. You do have a case for Medical Battery, Actually I could even see civil battery. The false Imprisonment claim is weak, although if you explain more maybe I can help. You should claim them as seperate counts of course but You should latch them. What I would do is this.

1) Dont listen to people on this board, chances are they aren't lawyers and you are getting bad advice.
2) Send them an Intent to sue letter based on the claims.
3) Wait to hear back from them. If the hospital think you have a good case or the Doctor chances are they will want to settle. If they offer 350,000.00 take it. If its anything less proceed to court.

I am not going to take the time with explaining the legal applicability but I will say this. You are attempting to take on the big boys! They will eat you up for lunch, be careful how you proceed. I think you have a good case, but even the best cases can get demurred.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
Consentlaw said:
I dont know, your case seems a little simple but equally complex. The long and short answer is this. You do have a case for Medical Battery, Actually I could even see civil battery. The false Imprisonment claim is weak, although if you explain more maybe I can help. You should claim them as seperate counts of course but You should latch them. What I would do is this.

1) Dont listen to people on this board, chances are they aren't lawyers and you are getting bad advice.
2) Send them an Intent to sue letter based on the claims.
3) Wait to hear back from them. If the hospital think you have a good case or the Doctor chances are they will want to settle. If they offer 350,000.00 take it. If its anything less proceed to court.

I am not going to take the time with explaining the legal applicability but I will say this. You are attempting to take on the big boys! They will eat you up for lunch, be careful how you proceed. I think you have a good case, but even the best cases can get demurred.

My response:

You have stated no authority for your "opinion" - so, your opinion is worthless. Therefore, I will presume that Randall will read this post, and your other entry on the contract issue, and come to the same conclusion I have - - that ConsentLaw is an idiot.

IAAL
 
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Randall

If your a law student why not just tell them that your a lawyer and since you didn't sign a consent for them to treat your son that you would sue them. You don't make no sense. I have 3 kids and there is noway in hell that if I didn't want them to do something to them that they are going to do it. It sounds more like your putting your homework on here for other people to do or you just want some money from the hospital. I say it's your homework. To everyone that is answering RANDALL'S questions on here he should tell you thank you since he is a LAW STUNDENT. So you are doing his home work for him instead of him doing it. It's real nice of everyone to do his work for him. I just don't think people should use this site to have other people do their homework when there is other people out there that can really use the advice and help.

RANDALL DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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Consentlaw

Guest
Look In as far a Law Practice...

I would love to know if your a member of the Bar association. Maybe you should read a little about ethics. Thirty thousand posts of copying and pasting laws into this site is ridiculous. Doctors dont usually sue for liquidated damages you triffling lump. In this ladies case I believe thats called nominal damages. Your ignorance of the law my friend is trivial at best.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
Consentlaw said:
I would love to know if your a member of the Bar association. Maybe you should read a little about ethics. Thirty thousand posts of copying and pasting laws into this site is ridiculous. Doctors dont usually sue for liquidated damages you triffling lump. In this ladies case I believe thats called nominal damages. Your ignorance of the law my friend is trivial at best.

My response:

And this from a PepperShmuck!

Boy, everybody to you is just a cut & paster, huh? I guess that's why you don't cite any authority for your stupid, worthless, opinions - - because you're too good for copying and pasting. Gee, I guess you write all of your pleadings from the top of your head, right? You must enjoy "reinventing the wheel" every time you write something, huh? So, don't give me your stupid crap about copying and pasting.

Could you be any more of a dope? We're talking about a "legal issue" pal. Not whether anybody sues for nominal damages. Oh, and the collection agency just might.

By the way - - you're still thinking like an employee. You appear to still have a "thing" about how many posts me, and JetX have written to this forum. Why is that? If we were employees like you, I could understand your concern. But, you're just talking out of your ass, er, mouth again. Pal, check out my profile. Want a job? You'll feel like the dufus that you are after you read who I am, and my credentials.

On your "best day", I'm far and away better than you. Don't even bother trying to compete - - you can't.

IAAL
 
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Consentlaw

Guest
Please I would dream of it

You couldn't keep up!
Three person law firm and you graduated from Stanford, I guess thats your problem, you went to Stanford. Whats the matter LSATS too low to get into Harvard! If you are a lawyer why don't you give me your license number, I would love to forward your posts to the bar association for review. You should be stoned for your worthless advice. Its unfounded and very dangerous.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
Consentlaw said:
I would love to know if your a member of the Bar association.

**A: consentflaw, you are an idiot. The word is you are, spelled you're, as in, if you're a member of the Bar association. And the attorney's that post on this website indeed are ABA members.
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
Consentlaw said:
You couldn't keep up!
Three person law firm and you graduated from Stanford, I guess thats your problem, you went to Stanford. Whats the matter LSATS too low to get into Harvard! If you are a lawyer why don't you give me your license number, I would love to forward your posts to the bar association for review. You should be stoned for your worthless advice. Its unfounded and very dangerous.

My response:

Wow! You're still coming up with "conclusions". You have no basis in fact for saying "worthless advice. Its unfounded and very dangerous."

You know, I'M THE ONE who keeps asking you for "authorities" for your opinions and yet, not once have you cited any statutes, case law, or any other legal fiat for your opinions. I have. Why can't you? Did you receive your license in a Cracker Jacks box? Perhaps you might go back to that law library on the hill (you know where it is) and spend some quality time there.

Tell me EXACTLY what is "worthless" and "unfounded". C'mon, you can do it! Start out by quoting me, and then give me your opposition using legal authorities. Don't just tell me I'm wrong, Schmuck. You graduated from Pepperdine! Ha, ha, ha, ha. Anybody can graduate from Pepperdine! And obviously, anybody did - - YOU!

Is that how you learned to practice law at Pepperdine, PepperSchmuck? The old "dazzle 'em with bullcrap" routine?

By the way, if you want a job, I'll be glad to hire you. That way, I can't teach you how to practice law properly. Keep thinking like an employee, PepperSchmuck - - because that's all you'll ever be.

IAAL
 
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JETX

Senior Member
Just curious... where did this 'ignorantlaw' say he went to pepperdick??? I re-read his posts and viewed his profile.... and can't find anywhere that he even claims to be an attorney.
So, you ask IAAL for his bar number..... if you (ignorantlaw) are an attorney (which we certainly doubt), what is YOUR bar number???
Or more likely, lets all guess what grade ignorantlaw is in.
From his poor writing style and being grammatically 'challenged' I would guess maybe..... freshman in high school. Anyone else have another guess??

Hey, that's an idea... how about a raffle. Closest to guess 'ignorantlaw's real grade gets to boot him off the forum.
I say ninth!!!
 

I AM ALWAYS LIABLE

Senior Member
My response:

You know, I have always tried to support the local law schools (Pepperdine is one, and is local to me) and in the past 5 years, I've hired 3 graduates of Pepperdine as Associates, and all with a couple of years "under their belt".

However, I've had to let each of them go because, for some reason, Pepperdine graduates can't research their way out of a shoebox. I don't know what they're teaching these people, but it's quite sad. It must be something in the water, or spending too much time at the beach. They conduct their practice just like ConsentLaw; spout off with conclusions, and no authority for their positions. It's like they make up their own law, or they completely misunderstand how to spot issues and then wind up misapplying the law.

I'd have to fire ConsentLaw eventually - - and it really takes a lot for me to fire someone.

IAAL
 

You Are Guilty

Senior Member
JETX said:
Just curious... where did this 'ignorantlaw' say he went to pepperdick??? I re-read his posts and viewed his profile.... and can't find anywhere that he even claims to be an attorney.
So, you ask IAAL for his bar number..... if you (ignorantlaw) are an attorney (which we certainly doubt), what is YOUR bar number???
Or more likely, lets all guess what grade ignorantlaw is in.
From his poor writing style and being grammatically 'challenged' I would guess maybe..... freshman in high school. Anyone else have another guess??

Hey, that's an idea... how about a raffle. Closest to guess 'ignorantlaw's real grade gets to boot him off the forum.
I say ninth!!!
Here you go: https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=189845


And if no one took 11th, I'm in for $20.
 
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