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Can we get past At-Will here? What do you think?

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J

junkbw

Guest
What is the name of your state?Worked all over the country with a home base in an at-will state



Details/Timeline:
- Alleged offense committed off the job, on a weekend.
- Six months later, employee advised employer of a criminal charge pending.
- Surrender/Arrest of employee occurred with some local media coverage. (Employer never mentioned in media)
- Employer begins its own investigation contacting law enforcement to try to determine details and whether they want to/should/can fire employee. (They are really looking for something that could tie them to the act and open up their computer network to scrutiny which would be very bad)
- Two weeks into investigation, direct manager, with HR approval directs employee to make arrangements to simply work 100% at home. Manager states this should take care of situation to everyone’s benefit.
- One month after beginning investigation, employer sends employee out of town to do a job, direct manager citing employee as best to accomplish the objective and that the "issue" of termination “looks like it won’t happen, otherwise VP would not have agreed to send employee out of town”.
- The job was to secure an annual contract for which I would fulfill a portion of the contract as a deliverable in the contract. I was under current contracts to two other companies in different states.
- Employee returns from the out of town job, and taking vacation days to let things blow over, HR directs employee manager to call employee in to office and terminate employee. In termination proceeding and later on appeal, HR citing conduct guidelines where "If management finds that your conduct on or off the job adversely affects your performance, that of other employees, or legitimate business interests, you will be subject to disciplinary measures, including dismissal." HR not concerned about guilt or innocence, rather concerned that behavior may occur on the job and affect company business interest, if discovered.


I guess Management flip flopped from the week prior. So, fine. I guess at-will was a hard decision to make in this instance. Now please smart people, let’s get to work....

Research leads me to believe one must determine if a contract was formed to eliminate at-will?.
Can conversations with a manager create an oral contract and bind the company to remove at-will status? There were many discussions that took place. Should these be pursued?

If the position involves contracts with other companies and I am a deliverable in the contract can this remove at-will status?

If a Manager states verbally during the termination proceeding or at a dinner afterwards (yep, dinner was had at the going away party with the manager) that after "everything blows-over" and the issue is "resolved quietly, we will see about getting you back on", will this remove at-will status?

What about Performance? Employee performance is not an issue. Working at home was a normal part of the job before and after. Employee record was spotless and according to management, none of the coworkers who were questioned, mentioned having a problem with the employee’s continued employment according to the manager. Employee was a ten year veteran of the business acquired during a takeover of the original company and handicapped to boot!

What was the Breach? I guess if at-will status is beaten, the breach is obvious.

Damages? Significant economic and personal loss as a result of the employers breach of contract, if determined to exist. First, loss of wages and stocks at an estimated $1.5 million over the coming decade. Second, the employee was stripped of the means to defend against the felony charge by being fired prior to even a Grand Jury indictment, prior to entering a plea, and prior to a fair trial in a court by peers. The employer, by inserting themselves into the matter became judge and jury, when only one side could be heard. In the end the employee was left with no alternative but to plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge or face financial ruin sooner rather than later.
 


Beth3

Senior Member
Research leads me to believe one must determine if a contract was formed to eliminate at-will? True.

Can conversations with a manager create an oral contract and bind the company to remove at-will status? Yes, it's possible.

If a Manager states verbally during the termination proceeding or at a dinner afterwards (yep, dinner was had at the going away party with the manager) that after "everything blows-over" and the issue is "resolved quietly, we will see about getting you back on", will this remove at-will status? No. "We'll see" obviously does not constitute a guarantee of remployment. It only means they may consider it at a future date.

What about Performance? That's irrelevant. Doing a good job does not negate the at will employment relationship.

What was the Breach? What breach? You haven't established that an oral contract guaranteeing continuing employment or re-employment existed. If the above is all you have, then you have nothing.

Second, the employee was stripped of the means to defend against the felony charge by being fired prior to even a Grand Jury indictment, prior to entering a plea, and prior to a fair trial in a court by peers. Huh? You mean because you didn't have a job you couldn't afford an attorney or the attorney of your choice? It's not your employer's responsibility to ensure you have sufficient financial means to hire a criminal defense lawyer should you need one.
 
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J

junkbw

Guest
Thanks, let me redirect

Thanks, let me redirect then. I can see that wording in the post will be an issue. Good to know. Forget the "should's" and "could's" and assume they are "will's" and "can's". Again, the employee was led to believe that when action was taken by HR and (new information) money was spent to setup the home office, the matter of the question for employment was over.

I am looking for what I have and what I need to build a case. To eliminate at-will. Forget about anything below the details and the question of at-will.

I am assuming that the conversations with the manager are the ones that need to be documented and backed up by some kind corroboration? Surly my word against him or her is not enough? What will be needed?
 

Beth3

Senior Member
What you need is to speak to an attorney. The EXACT comments that were made, as well as your State's relevant case law, are the critical issues.

FYI - the employee being "led to believe" that something will or might happen is still a long way from having created a binding oral contract.
 

JETX

Senior Member
Beth3 said:
What you need is to speak to an attorney. The EXACT comments that were made, as well as your State's relevant case law, are the critical issues.
And since the writer has decided to IGNORE the forums rules for advising the state, any response that he/she gets is purely generic and is NOT necessarily legally accurate.
(Beth, not a slam at you.... but at the OP).
 

Beth3

Senior Member
JETX, I know you would never treat me with anything but the utmost courtesy and consideration. ;)
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
I'm going to address one that no one else has mentioned yet.

"If the position involves contracts with other companies and I am a deliverable in the contract can this remove at-will status?"

Not even close. It might or might not affect the contract but it does not even remotely affect your at-will status. Don't even waste your time considering this one; ain't gonna happen.
 
J

junkbw

Guest
Thanks CBG for sticking to the subject

Really do appreciate it.

In response to a mention of "not sticking to the rules of the forum" It is by design in order to get serious answers like CBG's and perhaps to get folks to think. Tell me why telling you the state is NY would change your response?

What about people who travel on business? A little outside the box to think maybe they are not covered by any single states at-will status? Anyone getting anything out of this beyond the obvious? Perhaps we are talking about a company who employs several hundred thousand, some who have had DUI and misdemeanor charges or convictions or worse. Perhaps this company had a reason to release the employee other than the obvious. Perhaps they needed to destroy evidence that would not have reflected nicely in the media? Perhaps they did not want to spend the millions it would have cost on discovery.

I am not interested in the standard negative remarks and discussion of Mr. Tuttle singing in a shower. Heck he didn't even know how well he sang!

I am perhaps asking too much for what I am paying here. My "experience" has shown I usually get much less than what I pay for, which BTW, is exactly what you get when you go "talk" to an attorney if you can't hand it to them on the preverbal silver platter. (consider the gauntlet thrown)

I am trying to help the case here, not be negative and be flirtatious. I read some guy sued an RV manufacturer because he had a wreck while getting up from the driver seat to go make a cup of coffee while in motion. What response would he have gotten if he had addressed this forum? What remarks would the lady who burned herself with a hot cup-o-java from McD's have heard had she asked here?

I need my cup half full. Anyone got the knowledge to poor something in? Or is this just a place to lurk?
 

cbg

I'm a Northern Girl
"Tell me why telling you the state is NY would change your response?"

Because specifically what is covered under the law varies with the state.

As far as the at-will doctrine goes, specifically what can erode the at-will condition is to a certain extent state-specific. Specifically what constitutes an oral contract varies by state.
 

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