J
Justice?
Guest
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? FL
Re rmet4nzkx: "I have read your other posts and this rambling one. It seems you are frustrated but what is your question?
I'll try to reiterate my questions that never seem to get answered. I don't really understand why there is so much confusion about my inquiries. My first one stated I was falsely accused by my employer of a criminal offense during the course of carrying out my job, and I was therefore fired, and consequently blackballed from the teaching profession. What difference does it make as to what the false criminal offense was, or as to what profession I am in? (ANSWER PLEASE) Whether I am a cashier at a grocery store, a nurse, a car mechanic, or a teacher (which I am/was), isn't a criminal offense a criminal offense, and a false allegation a false allegation? (ANSWER PLEASE) The employer said he was opting not to report it, like he was doing me some kind of favor. Without question, by law, he was legally obligated to report it, and by not doing so he was putting himself in legal jeopardy. (This we do not have to debate as I know it is the law for anyone who works with children.) Right there he is in the wrong legally, and don't you find it odd that he would not report a criminal offense at the expense of his own career? (ANSWER PLEASE) Doesn't it kind of make you realize that he knew there was nothing to report, and therefore he had nothing to fear by not reporting it? I wanted him to report it as I knew, and he very well knew by his own admission, his accusation would not be supported by the authorities. Yes, it sounds nuts. It is nuts. But, I'm not the one who is nuts, he is. So, please don't shoot me, the messenger. All I have been trying to do is find out what steps, if any, I can take to restore my good standing in the teaching profession? (YES, THAT IS THE QUESTION I WOULD MOST LIKE ANSWERED)
You can accuse me of rambling, but I don't know of any other way to make this clear to you. Substitute any criminal offense or accusation you like for each time I say "criminal offense" in the above paragraph; what difference does it make? I was accused of murder, I was accused of rape, I was accused of theft, I was accused of child abuse, I was accused of ..... The point is it never happened, I know it, my employer knows it, and furthermore we don't have a victim; no one was murdered, raped, robbed, abused, or anything else. I stated in my first post that I have been denied access to a security camera video tape that I believe supports my innocence. Why am I not entitled to have access to that video? (ANSWER PLEASE)
Given this background information, my question was and is: How can he, or any employer get away with this? (ANSWER PLEASE) My only reply was from Beth3, who said without knowing the profession and the specifics of the accusation, it's very difficult to comment. And no, Beth, he will not be providing false information to other employers as he and I both know he could then be sued for slander; he's too smart for that. But he does know, and he told me that as a principal he knows, that in this profession the no rehire option, the silence, and the absence of a recommendation speaks volumes, and will end my career. Even with glowing references from previous employers over many years prior, a teacher is only as good as his/her last job reference, and this employer is very well aware of that. School districts ask for reference forms rating the teacher in several areas (e.g., knowledge of subject matter, professionalism, interactions with peers, parents, and students, coopertiveness with administration, appearance, attendance, record keeping, classroom management, etc.) He is refusing to fill out these forms, and I know this is his right, and I understand that. But believe me, he knows that opting to exercise this right will insure I do not get a job.
How come none of you HR people want to comment on the tragic demise of the poor truck driver accused of the unauthorized use of a credit card? Could you, just for fun, assume the facts are the facts as posted by this individual? You only found that to be "rambling", what do you think of someone being railroaded, or is it that as far as you people in HR are concerned there is no such thing as an employee being railroaded, and there is never a legitimate need for recourse, and there should not be any recourse for anything an employer does? Don't you even acknowledge that while it may be well within an employer's right to fire workers at his/her pleasure with lies, it may not necessarily be moral? (ANSWER PLEASE)
I'll take the insult of rambling with a grain of salt; I've seen your posts, too, and I don't think they are necessarily profound concise pearls of wisdom. I think even one of the senior members asked you what the heck you were talking about in a couple of your long posts that appeared to be irrelevant. But if being insulting is your style, then I guess it is. I personally don't see my post as rambling (i.e., to move about at random over a wide area.) I think I clearly stated how I happened to get involved in reading the posts at this web site, and stated what I think I was learning from them. I was simply requesting that someone verify that what I think I have learned in reading these posts is accurate, hence the title, CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.
I don't know how familiar you are with English grammar or sentence structure, and I am not an expert myself, but I think questions are the ones followed by the mark "?". If you, or anyone else looks for those marks, you can pretty easily pick out the questions, that's what I do.
The questions were:
1) Not only did he get fired for something that could not be proven and he most likely did not do, but who wants to hire a guy who obviously was out using his employer's credit card for his own personal use?
2) Okay, so the guy gets fired. That's one thing, but what about his ability to get another job with a record of "unauthorized use of a credit card" being related by his previous employer?
3) Am I to understand that when he applies for a new job with that as the reference, the prospective employer will give him an opportunity to explain/defend the circumstances when his previous employer did not?
4) Or is this guy's livelihood, home, health, family, and future in jeopardy?
5) You guys tell everyone to "get over it"........how do you "get over" or overcome a previous employer's lies that prevent you from getting another job?
RE rmet4nzkx: HOW CAN WE GIVE YOU ANYTHING MORE THAN GENERAL ADVICE IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO CIRCUMSPECT? What's circumspect about being accused of a criminal offense? Does it matter what the criminal offense is? If so, please explain.
Re rmet4nzkx: "FROM WHAT YOU POSTED ONE WOULD ASSUME YOU WERE FIRED FOR STEALING A PENCIL WHICH IS ABSURD..........."
I think your assumption is absurd, I don't know how you could assume that. If one were to read the post from cbg that stated, "If what was said is a LIE as opposed to a differing opinion, there is recourse", one might understand that the scenario of the "borrowed and not returned pencil" was a hypothetical one. I did preface it with "As far as a "lie"...... What I was getting at in that hypothetical situation is HOW does one differentiate between a LIE and a differing opinion, or more precisely, WHO makes the determination of what is a LIE as opposed to a differing opinion? If there is no due process allowing one to defend oneself, how, when, and by whom is that differentiation made? Is it not a slam dunk for the employer if there is no right to due process? Cbg says there is "recourse"........what is it and how do you get it? I guess I'll have to check with him/her.
If you think my posts are too long and rambling, that's too bad. I thought this was a forum to ask questions and learn. I see that many of you toss around ideas and ask questions of each other, and get into discussions...........is that a private privilege reserved for HR personnel?
You'll be happy to know that if this post, and one more to cbg, does not get any relevant answers to my questions, I'm outa here.
Re rmet4nzkx: "I have read your other posts and this rambling one. It seems you are frustrated but what is your question?
I'll try to reiterate my questions that never seem to get answered. I don't really understand why there is so much confusion about my inquiries. My first one stated I was falsely accused by my employer of a criminal offense during the course of carrying out my job, and I was therefore fired, and consequently blackballed from the teaching profession. What difference does it make as to what the false criminal offense was, or as to what profession I am in? (ANSWER PLEASE) Whether I am a cashier at a grocery store, a nurse, a car mechanic, or a teacher (which I am/was), isn't a criminal offense a criminal offense, and a false allegation a false allegation? (ANSWER PLEASE) The employer said he was opting not to report it, like he was doing me some kind of favor. Without question, by law, he was legally obligated to report it, and by not doing so he was putting himself in legal jeopardy. (This we do not have to debate as I know it is the law for anyone who works with children.) Right there he is in the wrong legally, and don't you find it odd that he would not report a criminal offense at the expense of his own career? (ANSWER PLEASE) Doesn't it kind of make you realize that he knew there was nothing to report, and therefore he had nothing to fear by not reporting it? I wanted him to report it as I knew, and he very well knew by his own admission, his accusation would not be supported by the authorities. Yes, it sounds nuts. It is nuts. But, I'm not the one who is nuts, he is. So, please don't shoot me, the messenger. All I have been trying to do is find out what steps, if any, I can take to restore my good standing in the teaching profession? (YES, THAT IS THE QUESTION I WOULD MOST LIKE ANSWERED)
You can accuse me of rambling, but I don't know of any other way to make this clear to you. Substitute any criminal offense or accusation you like for each time I say "criminal offense" in the above paragraph; what difference does it make? I was accused of murder, I was accused of rape, I was accused of theft, I was accused of child abuse, I was accused of ..... The point is it never happened, I know it, my employer knows it, and furthermore we don't have a victim; no one was murdered, raped, robbed, abused, or anything else. I stated in my first post that I have been denied access to a security camera video tape that I believe supports my innocence. Why am I not entitled to have access to that video? (ANSWER PLEASE)
Given this background information, my question was and is: How can he, or any employer get away with this? (ANSWER PLEASE) My only reply was from Beth3, who said without knowing the profession and the specifics of the accusation, it's very difficult to comment. And no, Beth, he will not be providing false information to other employers as he and I both know he could then be sued for slander; he's too smart for that. But he does know, and he told me that as a principal he knows, that in this profession the no rehire option, the silence, and the absence of a recommendation speaks volumes, and will end my career. Even with glowing references from previous employers over many years prior, a teacher is only as good as his/her last job reference, and this employer is very well aware of that. School districts ask for reference forms rating the teacher in several areas (e.g., knowledge of subject matter, professionalism, interactions with peers, parents, and students, coopertiveness with administration, appearance, attendance, record keeping, classroom management, etc.) He is refusing to fill out these forms, and I know this is his right, and I understand that. But believe me, he knows that opting to exercise this right will insure I do not get a job.
How come none of you HR people want to comment on the tragic demise of the poor truck driver accused of the unauthorized use of a credit card? Could you, just for fun, assume the facts are the facts as posted by this individual? You only found that to be "rambling", what do you think of someone being railroaded, or is it that as far as you people in HR are concerned there is no such thing as an employee being railroaded, and there is never a legitimate need for recourse, and there should not be any recourse for anything an employer does? Don't you even acknowledge that while it may be well within an employer's right to fire workers at his/her pleasure with lies, it may not necessarily be moral? (ANSWER PLEASE)
I'll take the insult of rambling with a grain of salt; I've seen your posts, too, and I don't think they are necessarily profound concise pearls of wisdom. I think even one of the senior members asked you what the heck you were talking about in a couple of your long posts that appeared to be irrelevant. But if being insulting is your style, then I guess it is. I personally don't see my post as rambling (i.e., to move about at random over a wide area.) I think I clearly stated how I happened to get involved in reading the posts at this web site, and stated what I think I was learning from them. I was simply requesting that someone verify that what I think I have learned in reading these posts is accurate, hence the title, CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG.
I don't know how familiar you are with English grammar or sentence structure, and I am not an expert myself, but I think questions are the ones followed by the mark "?". If you, or anyone else looks for those marks, you can pretty easily pick out the questions, that's what I do.
The questions were:
1) Not only did he get fired for something that could not be proven and he most likely did not do, but who wants to hire a guy who obviously was out using his employer's credit card for his own personal use?
2) Okay, so the guy gets fired. That's one thing, but what about his ability to get another job with a record of "unauthorized use of a credit card" being related by his previous employer?
3) Am I to understand that when he applies for a new job with that as the reference, the prospective employer will give him an opportunity to explain/defend the circumstances when his previous employer did not?
4) Or is this guy's livelihood, home, health, family, and future in jeopardy?
5) You guys tell everyone to "get over it"........how do you "get over" or overcome a previous employer's lies that prevent you from getting another job?
RE rmet4nzkx: HOW CAN WE GIVE YOU ANYTHING MORE THAN GENERAL ADVICE IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE SO CIRCUMSPECT? What's circumspect about being accused of a criminal offense? Does it matter what the criminal offense is? If so, please explain.
Re rmet4nzkx: "FROM WHAT YOU POSTED ONE WOULD ASSUME YOU WERE FIRED FOR STEALING A PENCIL WHICH IS ABSURD..........."
I think your assumption is absurd, I don't know how you could assume that. If one were to read the post from cbg that stated, "If what was said is a LIE as opposed to a differing opinion, there is recourse", one might understand that the scenario of the "borrowed and not returned pencil" was a hypothetical one. I did preface it with "As far as a "lie"...... What I was getting at in that hypothetical situation is HOW does one differentiate between a LIE and a differing opinion, or more precisely, WHO makes the determination of what is a LIE as opposed to a differing opinion? If there is no due process allowing one to defend oneself, how, when, and by whom is that differentiation made? Is it not a slam dunk for the employer if there is no right to due process? Cbg says there is "recourse"........what is it and how do you get it? I guess I'll have to check with him/her.
If you think my posts are too long and rambling, that's too bad. I thought this was a forum to ask questions and learn. I see that many of you toss around ideas and ask questions of each other, and get into discussions...........is that a private privilege reserved for HR personnel?
You'll be happy to know that if this post, and one more to cbg, does not get any relevant answers to my questions, I'm outa here.