Victim of check fraud???

What is the name of your state? Happened in AZ

My friend recently moved out of state and was waiting for her final check. It's been over a month and still no sign.

Well today he received something from her last employer stating that the check had been cashed! She received a copy of the check and also the back of the check with the signature.

The horrible thing, she realized it was her mother who forged her name.

She wants to pursue this legally and get her money back, however she is curious as to what the penilties are for forgery. Maybe she'll be able to threaten her mother and get her money back. I don't know.

Her family is all pretty screwed up and this one takes the cake.

What steps does she need to take to ensure she gets her money and her mother regrets she ever did this?

Thanks.

beenscrewed said:

What steps does she need to take to ensure she gets her money and her mother regrets she ever did this?

Click to expand...

Of course, there is no way that anyone can "ENSURE she gets her money". However, the first step towards that goal is for her to contact the local police (where 'mom' lives) and file a complaint for theft and/or forgery.
The rest of the steps will pretty much become obvious.

beenscrewed said:

What is the name of your state? Happened in AZ

My friend recently moved out of state and was waiting for her final check. It's been over a month and still no sign.

Well today he received something from her last employer stating that the check had been cashed! She received a copy of the check and also the back of the check with the signature.

The horrible thing, she realized it was her mother who forged her name.

She wants to pursue this legally and get her money back, however she is curious as to what the penilties are for forgery. Maybe she'll be able to threaten her mother and get her money back. I don't know.

Her family is all pretty screwed up and this one takes the cake.

What steps does she need to take to ensure she gets her money and her mother regrets she ever did this?

Thanks.

Click to expand...

Your friend needs to tell her former employer that the endorsement is a forgery and kindly reissue the check. There is no need to have your friend file a police report, the bank that accepted the check for deposit (or cashed it) is the entity that was defrauded, let them make any police reports or track down the forger.

If your friend's employer refuses to replace the check your friend may have to resort to suing her former employer.

These rules may vary by state. Out here, the victim would be the party that is out the money. And the banks out here will generally not refund the money unless a crime report is filed as well as an affidavit of forgery.

In this case, if the employer eats the money and re-issues the check, they become the victim. If they refuse to re-issue the check, the friend is the victim since she is out money that she was entitled to.

What might complicate the matter is (as is often the case when people have been living together) if mom had ever signed the friend's name and cashed checks for her in the past - with permission.

These can be very complex dealings, and in my experience, less than half of those where a suspect is identified ever get to court for a host of reasons.

Carl

CdwJava said:

These rules may vary by state. Out here, the victim would be the party that is out the money. And the banks out here will generally not refund the money unless a crime report is filed as well as an affidavit of forgery.

In this case, if the employer eats the money and re-issues the check, they become the victim. If they refuse to re-issue the check, the friend is the victim since she is out money that she was entitled to.

What might complicate the matter is (as is often the case when people have been living together) if mom had ever signed the friend's name and cashed checks for her in the past - with permission.

These can be very complex dealings, and in my experience, less than half of those where a suspect is identified ever get to court for a host of reasons.

Carl

Click to expand...

The employer doesn't eat the money as the employer informs the drawee bank that the check has a forged endorsement and that bank must redeposit the funds to the employers account. That bank then passes the blame down the chain to the bank that cashed or accepted the check for deposit. That bank eats it (they are responsible for ensuring that the person cashing/depositing the check was who they claimed to be) and if they want their money back they have to find the person that gave them the check.

The bank can certainly request an affidavit of forgery but more the friend is under no obligation to provide one.

But if the friend doesn't want to have to resort to a lawsuit to recover her unpaid wages cooperating is the best course.

Well, I guess it's different strokes, because I know that the policies of at least three of our local banks (large chains) requires a police report and an affidavit of forgery. I think largely because they do not want to be stuck holding the bag of trying to go after someone that they know will not be prosecuted for amounts that are cost-prohibitive to sue for.

If the person who is alleging forgery or fraud does not file a police report, they will not refund the money unless the checks were reported stolen or on a completely bogus check or form.

I suppose procedures vary. But that's how it is here.

If the banks ate it every time there would be no reason I couldn't just have friends of mine forge my name to my paycheck every couple months and then claim it was stolen. It would cost the bank too much money to sue me, and it would be almost impossible to show that I was not complicit in the affair.

It would be quite a racket! I mean, it already is to a great degree ... trying to get a prosecution in these cases can be a bear!

Carl

LittleNapolean said:

Your friend needs to tell her former employer that the endorsement is a forgery and kindly reissue the check. There is no need to have your friend file a police report, the bank that accepted the check for deposit (or cashed it) is the entity that was defrauded, let them make any police reports or track down the forger.

If your friend's employer refuses to replace the check your friend may have to resort to suing her former employer.

Click to expand...

And of course, NONE of that is legally accurate. Clearly a case of too much 'television law'.

JETX said:

And of course, NONE of that is legally accurate. Clearly a case of too much 'television law'.

Click to expand...

From the UCC, not television.

If you have some specific correction or comment to make it would be welcome, pronouncements aren't.

CdwJava said:

Well, I guess it's different strokes, because I know that the policies of at least three of our local banks (large chains) requires a police report and an affidavit of forgery. I think largely because they do not want to be stuck holding the bag of trying to go after someone that they know will not be prosecuted for amounts that are cost-prohibitive to sue for.

If the person who is alleging forgery or fraud does not file a police report, they will not refund the money unless the checks were reported stolen or on a completely bogus check or form.

I suppose procedures vary. But that's how it is here.

If the banks ate it every time there would be no reason I couldn't just have friends of mine forge my name to my paycheck every couple months and then claim it was stolen. It would cost the bank too much money to sue me, and it would be almost impossible to show that I was not complicit in the affair.

It would be quite a racket! I mean, it already is to a great degree ... trying to get a prosecution in these cases can be a bear!

Carl

Click to expand...

Where I'm from the police won't even take a report from me if I reported that I never received my paycheck and my employer said it had been cashed (with a signature that wasn't mine). The police would inform me that I'm not the victim, nothing has been stolen from me or taken from me.

The initial victim is the employer, there is a forged endorsement and funds have been fraudulently removed from the employer's account. The employer seeks reimbursement from the bank the check is drawn on with an allegation that the signature is forged, that bank must in turn seek to recover from the bank that passed the check along to it. The bank that is ultimately responsible is the bank that accepted the check for deposit (or cashed it). That is the bank that is responsible for making sure that the payee endorsement is valid.

You are free to implement the scam you descibe, forcing you to file a police report and fill out an affidavit of forgery does nothing to prevent the scam itself.

LittleNapolean said:

Where I'm from the police won't even take a report from me if I reported that I never received my paycheck and my employer said it had been cashed (with a signature that wasn't mine). The police would inform me that I'm not the victim, nothing has been stolen from me or taken from me.

Click to expand...

Clearly, either that is not true, or the police may have experience with your previous calls of 'wolf'.
The victim is CLEARLY the person who the check was made out to. It was that persons name who was forged.

The initial victim is the employer, there is a forged endorsement and funds have been fraudulently removed from the employer's account.

Click to expand...

Again, not true. The employer has lost nothing. The funds were NOT taken from their account. Clearly, you have NO legal education or knowledge as to negotiable instruments. The check is an 'order to pay'. The employer has instructed the holder of his funds (his bank) to pay the specific amount stated to the named payee. As far as the employers bank is concerned, they have done as instructed. The victim in this matter is the payee.... who's funds have been diverted to another, without the payees permission. That is theft.

The employer seeks reimbursement from the bank the check is drawn on with an allegation that the signature is forged, that bank must in turn seek to recover from the bank that passed the check along to it.

Click to expand...

The employer has no obligation, nor factual knowledge, that the signature is a forgery or not. They have fulfilled their obligation in making payment to the presumed payee.

The bank that is ultimately responsible is the bank that accepted the check for deposit (or cashed it). That is the bank that is responsible for making sure that the payee endorsement is valid.

Click to expand...

Agreed. But the bank can and will do nothing until such time as they are noticed that the signature is forged.... and this is done by the payee completing a forgery affidavit, under oath. Further, the bank is well within their rights to ask for a copy of the police report also.

You are free to implement the scam you descibe, forcing you to file a police report and fill out an affidavit of forgery does nothing to prevent the scam itself.

Click to expand...

Wow!! You really don't get this do you.... the 'scam' has already happened. The forger already has the funds.

Simply, this is beyond your understanding and knowledge.

Thank you everyone. Well so far here is what has happened. My friend contacted corporate and they sent her an Affidavit of Forgery. She filled it out and had it notorized and it's now in the mail. What happens from there, I'm assuming, is that the employers bank gets the check, then it goes to the cashing bank for the account number. Is that right?

So My question is...Will her mom go to jail? She has NEVER given permission to her mother to sign her name, nor has she ever done it. Also she never gave permission for her employer to release her check to anyone!

I'm hoping the old bat goes to jail. It's so wrong to hurt people on purpose like that.