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Copayment issue?

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Dee1228

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California

My question is it legal for a doctor to refuse to see a patient due to inability to pay a copayment? :confused:

I am not sure if this is where I would ask this question, but here goes. My 10 year old son was sick and had a fever and stomache cramps, I called his Doctor and made an apointment for him that same day Sept 29. I took him in and signed him in and then was told that I had a Copayment, I asked if they could bill me, I didn't have any money except five dollars. Well she then said they could not see my son because I couldn't pay it, I offered her the five dollars in my purse, and they still refused to see him. She pointed out that the policy was clearly stated on the counter, which I set my purse on top of. I asked them why they didn't state this on the phone, no comment.

Anyways, I am blessed with a brain and took my son to the ER and we found out that it was his appendix, it ruptured and he had emergency surgery.


Also, My son has been seening this doctor since he was 3 and she moved to another facility and this was our first time seeing her at this new place, with new policies.
 


ellencee

Senior Member
BelizeBreeze
I'd like to know about the issue of duty. This is the child's regular physician who normally sees the child; the only change is that the physician moved to a new facility and apparently adopted new office policy without notifying existing patients than an inability to pay at the time of service means the patient will not be seen. Following the usual protocol, the mother called and informed the physician, via his office staff, that the child was sick and the mother was instructed to take the child to the office. A delay in seeing the child could be attributed to the rupture of the appendix. This child apparently did not suffer any of the potentially serious and life-threatening consequences of a ruptured appendix. What if the child had? Did not the physician have a duty to see one of his regular patients because the physician did not provide the patient(s) with a 30-day notice of change in policy regarding ability to pay equals no service?

It is my understanding that a physician or healthcare provider must notify existing patients of any change that will affect whether or not the physician will provide treatment to the patient(s).

I'm asking because I would like to the answer according to present legal aspects of healthcare.

Thanks,
EC
 
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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
ellencee said:
BelizeBreeze
I'd like to know about the issue of duty. This is the child's regular physician who normally sees the child; the only change is that the physician moved to a new facility and apparently adopted new office policy without notifying existing patients than an inability to pay at the time of service means the patient will not be seen. Following the usual protocol, the mother called and informed the physician, via his office staff, that the child was sick and the mother was instructed to take the child to the office. A delay in seeing the child could be attributed to the rupture of the appendix. This child apparently did not suffer any of the potentially serious and life-threatening consequences of a ruptured appendix. What if the child had? Did not the physician have a duty to see one of his regular patients because the physician did not provide the patient(s) with a 30-day notice of change in policy regarding ability to pay equally no service?

It is my understanding that a physician or healthcare provider must notify existing patients of any change that will affect whether or not the physician will provide treatment to the patient(s).

I'm asking because I would like to the answer according to present legal aspects of healthcare.

Thanks,
EC
I'll do a little research as I'm not up on that aspect at present. However, the duty to inform (as stated) was performed by the notice on the counter. Also, where no life-threatening situation occurred, the doctor is not under the obligation or duty to take a patient that cannot pay.

The one GLARING omission in this post however, is that of what the doctor herself said regarding the issue? Remember, this was a front-desk person, NOT the physicial. And was this doctor, since she recently moved offices, a member of a group or practice facility or alone? If not alone, she may not have been the one to formulate the policy.

I'll do a bit of research on this specific topic when I finishe with the 'change in child custody in light of terminal illness' reading ;)
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
California, physician's duty to care:

While the University of California explains the concept of legal duty to care, it addresses only those doctors who are 'hospitalists' or affiliated with a hospital, though we can draw the conclusion that the specific language of the law could interpret this to mean any physician with whom a patient has a relationship.

Department of Medicine, Program in Medical Ethics, Division of General Internal Medicine, University of California, San Francisco 94143, USA.

"In a hospitalist system, when a patient leaves the hospital, he or she will return to a primary care provider (PCP) for follow-up and continuing care. The hand-off after discharge can compromise communication with the PCP. Physicians have a legal duty to provide follow-up care to patients with whom they have a relationship. The obligation to provide follow-up care endures even when the patient misses a scheduled appointment or does not adhere to the follow-up regimen. In general, the physician who began the care must fulfill that obligation. An essential component of follow-up care includes educating the patient about what symptoms require follow-up care and why it is important. The duty to provide adequate follow-up care is shared by the hospitalist and the PCP. Virtually no malpractice case law considers the obligations and practices of hospitalists."

What this passage doesn't address is ongoing normative care but only that followup care resulting from a physician's primary care of the patient (i.e., a heart transplant patient MUST be given followup care regarding the requirements of post operative infection, medication and associated longterm prevention).

However, as to the ethics question:

“Physicians have an obligation to support continuity of care for their patients. While physicians have the option of withdrawing from a case, they cannot do so without giving notice sufficiently long in advance of withdrawal to permit another medical attendant to be secured.”
Source, American Medical Association Code of Ethics

The first step in avoiding an abandonment claim is to be sure that patients are not dismissed without adequate cause. What constitutes “adequate cause” is of course open to debate, but generally physicians may ethically refuse to treat a patient for any of the following reasons:

1. Routinely fails to pay bills for services rendered, even after repeated warnings.
2. Receives reimbursement through Medicare, but is left without a payment option when Medicare changes its reimbursement rules such that services are left uncovered.
3. Is rude and abusive to you and your staff, or makes threats against your health or life.
4. Misses office visits on a regular basis without a valid excuse.
5. Alters prescriptions that you give to him or her before filling them, or visits a second physician to get duplicate prescriptions. You may also terminate the PPR if you suspect the patient of using you to get prescription drugs or of redistributing the medications you do prescribe.

Failure to comply with the physician’s treatment plan may also constitute grounds for dismissal. In 1982’s Payton v. Weaver, a California court ruled that a physician was not obligated to continue treating a patient with end-stage renal disease because that patient missed multiple dialysis appointments, did not abide by the doctor’s prescribed dietary restrictions, and continued to use illegal drugs in spite of their impact on her treatment.

Now, as to our specific case, the PPR has not been terminated. The only thing that occurred in this instance is that treatment for a non-continuing case was refused due to the inability of the responsible party to pay for treatment. Although, later, it was discovered that the child suffered a very dangerous condition which resulted in surgery, the physician cannot be held legally liable in this case. In fact, from my reading of the AMA journals and my search (albeit cursory) of relevant medical organizations, while a bit questionable as to timeframe and practice, I see this physician as not illegally notifying patients of a new payment policy.

Remember, although her child was ill, this physician did not refuse to see the child or offer treatment. The practice simply informed her of a new payment policy and it was well within her right to come back when that policy could be adhered to. That the child was later seen by the emergency room (and we don't know how long from the time of this incident) is immaterial to the question of the physicians right to set office policy.

That being said, if this physician had been treating the child for an appendix that "MIGHT" rupture in the future and this visit was to insure the temperature and other signs were not in fact a rupture, then yes, the doctor could be held legally liable for refusing continuing care of the patient.

so far, this is where I am. And I'm probably never going to reach a solid conclusion on this simply because the case law and statutes are being re-written as we type. Even the AMA is fluidly continuing to update their policy statements todate.

An excellent start would be the discussions here:
http://www.mdnetguide.com/specialty_editions/menshealth/urology/feature.html
http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20040400/17whye.html
http://www.shands.org/professional/ppd/practice_article.asp?ID=145
 

ellencee

Senior Member
BB
Thanks. I know that physicians and other healthcare providers send out notices with 30-day notification of changes in payment policies, .i.e., no longer part of a certain HMO, or no longer accepting Medicare but will continue to see the patient if the patient pays at the time of the appointment and the patient bills Medicare personally. A notice on the counter is not a 30-day notice; and, appendicitis is life-threatening. The physician is responsible for what his staff does. The staff didn't even direct the patient to the ER. If the mohter had simply taken the child home and the child had died, I think it is possible that the physician could be shown to have failed in the element of duty. I'm looking forward to your answer!
EC
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
ellencee said:
BB
Thanks. I know that physicians and other healthcare providers send out notices with 30-day notification of changes in payment policies, .i.e., no longer part of a certain HMO, or no longer accepting Medicare but will continue to see the patient if the patient pays at the time of the appointment and the patient bills Medicare personally. A notice on the counter is not a 30-day notice; and, appendicitis is life-threatening. The physician is responsible for what his staff does. The staff didn't even direct the patient to the ER. If the mohter had simply taken the child home and the child had died, I think it is possible that the physician could be shown to have failed in the element of duty. I'm looking forward to your answer!
EC
awwwww shucks (toe in sand) actually the situation of HMO and managed care continuing relationships is covered quite nicely in the first of the links I gave you regarding abandonment and state statute.

But this is a quite different situation than our poster's. And the staff is not qualified to offer medical evaluations, even if it's a nurse overseeing the front desk (which most times it is not). therefore, the choice of directing the patient to another alternative would be dangerous at best and illegal at worst.

Of course, it's ALWAYS possible to show in a case like this a failure of duty to provide service. However, since the physician did not see the patient in this scenario and therefore no diagnosis could be relied upon in the current situation, there was no duty attached.

Remember, the only duty (so far as I have found) is the ongoing care of the patient, NOT to see the patient on each and every occassion.

I'm travelling today so I'll look at this further when I get time.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
By the way EC, I'm sure IAAL, Stephen and even Jet would have more insight into this. I'm floundering here in uncharted waters.
 

ellencee

Senior Member
BB
I did receive some clarification from your answers. IF the physician had been currently treating the child for abdominal complaints, changed the policy, and refused to see the child due to the policy change (payment), then it would be abandonment. I agree. I see the difference, too. The physician, in this case, had no idea that the child was even sick and was not currently rendering treatment.

It is standard and routine practice for the office staff to tell a patient that can not be seen by the MD (at that time) to go to the ER if the patient believes it is a life-threatening condition or the patient believes he or she can not wait to be examined by an MD. That is not practicing medicine; that's meeting legal obligations to not dismiss the patient's concerns and risk a delay in necessary treatment. It's on most after-hour messages for patients who call after hours. I don't know of any healthcare providers who do not have such a message.

Travel safely. I shall be traveling, beginning tomorrow. Time to go and face the music in GA and maybe in Florida. Frances, Ivan, and Jeanne left their calling cards. GA property damage: 250+ year old oak tree down; contributed to major loss of power in county. Major mess left to be cleared. Flordia: total loss; waiting on insurance adjuster! Anyway--meet you back here next week?

EC
 

Dee1228

Junior Member
Wow

WOW what a response, I am so thankful that you are taking the time to look into this. I really appreciate the fact that you are researching and all of that.

My son seemed ok, just the fever and stomache cramps, I was a worried mom and took him to see his DR., the woman in the front desk was doing her job, I know that. But my problem was that I offered the money I did have and expressed how my son had a fever and cramps and if the doctor could please look at him. But I was still told no...I was disgusted at that.

I am thankful that he is ok and the reason I asked that question is because I think of the mother or father who might fail to seek Emergency medical care and all because of that kind of situation.

Thank you for looking into this, oh and by the way I took my son to ER immediately, it was four streets down from my sons Dr.

Dee
 

ellencee

Senior Member
Dee1228
As far as there being any legal action that you can take, I'm not aware of anything that you can do and there is no chance of recovering any award for damages because your son did not suffer any damage that he would not otherwise have suffered.

I believe your child's physician needs to know that your son came to her office with complaints of abdominal cramps and a fever, which turned out to be acute appendecitis requiring surgery and suffered a rupture of his appendix; and, that because you did not know you would be expected to pay $X at the time of treatment instead of being allowed to pay it later as had been the physician's usual practice, that your son's exam was unnecessarily delayed. Had you known, you would have either brought the cash or taken your son directly to the ER.

Even though the outcome would have been the same, I believe any competent and caring physician wants to know what happens in his or her name via the office staff. The physician may well want to speak with the staff about which symptoms or which patients (special needs) are NOT to be turned away. Each office has these known exceptions to the rules/policies and physicians do not tolerate being denied the opportunity to intervene in specific circumstances.

The physician may not be aware that patients need advanced notice about changes in payment policies; but, I doubt it. I believe the physician needs to be reminded that patients are people with financial concerns as well as bodies with healthcare needs.

I'm glad that your child is recovering without problem. You should be proud of yourself; your astute observations and conclusion that your child needed medical care ASAP protected your child from serious and significant complications of a ruptured appendix. I tip my hat to you!

EC
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
ellencee said:
Dee1228
As far as there being any legal action that you can take, I'm not aware of anything that you can do and there is no chance of recovering any award for damages because your son did not suffer any damage that he would not otherwise have suffered.

I believe your child's physician needs to know that your son came to her office with complaints of abdominal cramps and a fever, which turned out to be acute appendecitis requiring surgery and suffered a rupture of his appendix; and, that because you did not know you would be expected to pay $X at the time of treatment instead of being allowed to pay it later as had been the physician's usual practice, that your son's exam was unnecessarily delayed. Had you known, you would have either brought the cash or taken your son directly to the ER.

Even though the outcome would have been the same, I believe any competent and caring physician wants to know what happens in his or her name via the office staff. The physician may well want to speak with the staff about which symptoms or which patients (special needs) are NOT to be turned away. Each office has these known exceptions to the rules/policies and physicians do not tolerate being denied the opportunity to intervene in specific circumstances.

The physician may not be aware that patients need advanced notice about changes in payment policies; but, I doubt it. I believe the physician needs to be reminded that patients are people with financial concerns as well as bodies with healthcare needs.

I'm glad that your child is recovering without problem. You should be proud of yourself; your astute observations and conclusion that your child needed medical care ASAP protected your child from serious and significant complications of a ruptured appendix. I tip my hat to you!

EC
Ditto. And I tip my ....... oh well, EC knows ;)
 

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