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fence moving and location

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upshoss

Guest
What is the name of your state?i live in missouri,recently purchased home,neighbors fence is on my back property line by 3 feet.when lot was purchased by builder neighbor was made aware of the fence being over the property line,he is now being obstinate about moving it,have lived on property 6 mths. would like to now my options as to how to make him move fence and to how close to property line he can put fence.Thank you.
 


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upshoss

Guest
yes i have recent survey, was resurveyed right before i moved in 6 mths ago
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
Then send the neighbor a certified (RRR) letter demanding he remove the fence within 5 days or you will have it removed.
 

Ciarraine

Member
BelizeBreeze said:
Then send the neighbor a certified (RRR) letter demanding he remove the fence within 5 days or you will have it removed.
He may have a hard time getting it to happen in 5 days. Give him a reasonable amount of time to hire contractors to do this. I'd suggest 14 days. But you're well within your rights to have the fence removed from your land.
 

geryon

Member
I suggest you get more information about Missouri laws before tearing down the fence. As ridiculous as this sounds, if you were in California and tore down the fence against your neighbor's wishes, you could be prosecuted for forcible entry despite having title to the land the fence is on. "Self help" is frowned on by the legal system.

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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
geryon said:
I suggest you get more information about Missouri laws before tearing down the fence. As ridiculous as this sounds, if you were in California and tore down the fence against your neighbor's wishes, you could be prosecuted for forcible entry despite having title to the land the fence is on. "Self help" is frowned on by the legal system.

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And of course you can give us the California citation for the statute that this references? (not holding my breath)
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
geryon said:
I suggest you get more information about Missouri laws before tearing down the fence. As ridiculous as this sounds, if you were in California and tore down the fence against your neighbor's wishes, you could be prosecuted for forcible entry despite having title to the land the fence is on. "Self help" is frowned on by the legal system.

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**A: what the heck are you talking about?
 

geryon

Member
The CA Civil Code of Procedure is 1159:

1159. Every person is guilty of a forcible entry who either:
1. By breaking open doors, windows, or other parts of a house, or by any kind of violence or circumstance of terror enters upon or into any real property; or,
2. Who, after entering peaceably upon real property, turns out by force, threats, or menacing conduct, the party in possession.
The "party in possession" means any person who hires real property and includes a boarder or lodger, except those persons whose occupancy is described in subdivision (b) of Section 1940 of the Civil Code.

Now, this doesn't sound to me like it would apply, but I wanted to take down a fence on my property against the neighbor's will and received a letter from their attorney citing Allen et al., v. McMillon et al and quoting from the opinion: "one in peaceful though wrongful possession of real property may sue in tort for non-statutory forcible entry and interference with that possession even in the absence of injury to his person or goods." This opinion goes on and on, citing other cases, and statements like "It is a general principle that one who is or believes he is injured or deprived of what he is lawfully entitled to must apply to the state for help. Self-help is in conflict with the very idea of the social order. It subjects the weaker to risk of the arbitrary will or mistaken belief of the stronger. Hence the law in general forbids it."

Our RE attorney agreed that we could get in lots of trouble taking the fence down ourselves.

I would like to believe these guys are wrong, but I haven't seen anything that would convince me that they are. And, there was also a case in the news in Palo Alto a couple of years ago where a builder cut off the neighbor's deck that was protruding onto his lot. The builder ended up in jail.

I would love it if you guys could tell me this is all wrong because I have another fence with the same problem.

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BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
geryon said:
The CA Civil Code of Procedure is 1159:

1159. Every person is guilty of a forcible entry who either:
1. By breaking open doors, windows, or other parts of a house, or by any kind of violence or circumstance of terror enters upon or into any real property; or,
2. Who, after entering peaceably upon real property, turns out by force, threats, or menacing conduct, the party in possession.
The "party in possession" means any person who hires real property and includes a boarder or lodger, except those persons whose occupancy is described in subdivision (b) of Section 1940 of the Civil Code.

Now, this doesn't sound to me like it would apply, but I wanted to take down a fence on my property against the neighbor's will and received a letter from their attorney citing Allen et al., v. McMillon et al and quoting from the opinion: "one in peaceful though wrongful possession of real property may sue in tort for non-statutory forcible entry and interference with that possession even in the absence of injury to his person or goods." This opinion goes on and on, citing other cases, and statements like "It is a general principle that one who is or believes he is injured or deprived of what he is lawfully entitled to must apply to the state for help. Self-help is in conflict with the very idea of the social order. It subjects the weaker to risk of the arbitrary will or mistaken belief of the stronger. Hence the law in general forbids it."

Our RE attorney agreed that we could get in lots of trouble taking the fence down ourselves.

I would like to believe these guys are wrong, but I haven't seen anything that would convince me that they are. And, there was also a case in the news in Palo Alto a couple of years ago where a builder cut off the neighbor's deck that was protruding onto his lot. The builder ended up in jail.

I would love it if you guys could tell me this is all wrong because I have another fence with the same problem.

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Please tell us what this statute has to do with MISSOURI law? :rolleyes:
 

geryon

Member
BelizeBreeze said:
Please tell us what this statute has to do with MISSOURI law? :rolleyes:
I didn't say it had anything to do with Missouri law. I was just suggesting that the poster should make sure about Missouri law before doing anything. When this situation arose for me in CA, the first two attorneys I talked to also told me that I could just take the fence down. No problem. That is apparently not the case. All the advice the poster is getting may very well be correct, but after all it is the poster who will suffer the consequences if it is not. I'll defer to the experts and shut up now.

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Ciarraine

Member
geryon said:
I didn't say it had anything to do with Missouri law. I was just suggesting that the poster should make sure about Missouri law before doing anything. When this situation arose for me in CA, the first two attorneys I talked to also told me that I could just take the fence down. No problem. That is apparently not the case. All the advice the poster is getting may very well be correct, but after all it is the poster who will suffer the consequences if it is not. I'll shut up now.

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Things happen a lot more abruptly in the red states.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
geryon said:
I didn't say it had anything to do with Missouri law. I was just suggesting that the poster should make sure about Missouri law before doing anything. When this situation arose for me in CA, the first two attorneys I talked to also told me that I could just take the fence down. No problem. That is apparently not the case. All the advice the poster is getting may very well be correct, but after all it is the poster who will suffer the consequences if it is not. I'll shut up now.

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And no one here told this poster to just 'take the fence down'. What I told this poster to do was notify the owner of the fence and demand resolution before taking action. Which, by the way, is required by Missouri law.
 

Perrianne

Junior Member
I live in Alabama and am having a similar problem with a neighbor's fence that encroaches 9.9 feet onto my land. I saw a lawyer yesterday and he suggested the self-help, but -- to first get a telephone monitoring device, give the neighbor one more week (she's had one week already) then call her.
Be very sugary, first get her to admit she knows her fence is on my land, then have it removed myself. If she comes over trying to make a production, to whip out the tape and play it back to her. I plan to do this and also ask would she object to me having the fence moved.

The lawyer said the monitoring would be perfectly legal; if it doesn't work, to let him know. I asked him about writing this lady a letter, but he declined, saying he no longer does that, as when he writes a letter he doesn't bluff, it makes people mad and ends up in court and would be costly.
 

Ciarraine

Member
Taping a phone conversation isn't legal in a lot of states without consent. I think BelizeBreeze's advice about sending a letter via certified mail, return receipt requested, is a far better way to go.
 
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