Breeder question for sale of pup

boxerbeauty · Nov 28, 2004

What is the name of your state? Ohio
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I sold a puppy to a couple in Virginia. The pup was checked by vet, no known health problems. I sold the pup without health certificate, but did say by email that I would take pup back if it had heart or cancer problems.

The couple took pup to vet's 5 of them till one diagnosised pup had HOD. We were shocked since we don't have any of that in our health history. And were skepitical since none of the other pups in litter had it.

The couple wrote and said that the vet said it could be genetic, and the vet asked them where they purchased pup? buyer said Ohio and the vet said oh that is where a lot of backyard breeders are. I was upset since I have purebred bloodlines, and never had this happen in 15 years of breeding.

The couple wants back purchase price of 400 and want to keep pup. Couple stated they had spent $1,200 in vet bills since pup had to be boarded for medication, and want to know what we can compensate for?

I don't know what really to do since they do not want us to give back full refund and pick up pup, and not sure what to do, When I refund the money and they want purchase price, how can I safeguard myself from them wanting more in the future. There was no Puppy contract between buyer and seller, or health certificate from vet. My question is how much to compensate since she is keeping pup and for how long?

Sincerely,

Box

BelizeBreeze · Nov 28, 2004

How much do you offer them? NOT one damn penny.

First, they would have to come to Ohio to file suit. Second, if your vet checked the puppy over (and other pups in the same litter) and found no congential heart or cancer problems, AND if you did not sell the puppy with a health certificate, it's buyer beware.

And, since there was no contract and therefore no expectation of breed, they buyer would have to prove that you KNEW there was a problem. If they did sue you in your state, you would have the ability, during discovery, to get the other vet reports that showed NO medical history.

Tell them to pound sand.

stevek3 · Nov 28, 2004

boxerbeauty said:
What is the name of your state? Ohio
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I sold a puppy to a couple in Virginia. The pup was checked by vet, no known health problems. I sold the pup without health certificate, but did say by email that I would take pup back if it had heart or cancer problems.

The couple took pup to vet's 5 of them till one diagnosised pup had HOD. We were shocked since we don't have any of that in our health history. And were skepitical since none of the other pups in litter had it.

The couple wrote and said that the vet said it could be genetic, and the vet asked them where they purchased pup? buyer said Ohio and the vet said oh that is where a lot of backyard breeders are. I was upset since I have purebred bloodlines, and never had this happen in 15 years of breeding.

The couple wants back purchase price of 400 and want to keep pup. Couple stated they had spent $1,200 in vet bills since pup had to be boarded for medication, and want to know what we can compensate for?

I don't know what really to do since they do not want us to give back full refund and pick up pup, and not sure what to do, When I refund the money and they want purchase price, how can I safeguard myself from them wanting more in the future. There was no Puppy contract between buyer and seller, or health certificate from vet. My question is how much to compensate since she is keeping pup and for how long?

Sincerely,

Box

I'm curious, how does a couple from Virginia end up getting a dog in Ohio in the first place? Do you advertise your kennel on the Internet or in some dog publication?

I'm assuming you provided them with a pedigree prior to purchase or at the time of purchase?

By the way, these questions have nothing to do with your current difficulty. I'm just a very curious monkey. I've traveled outside of Ohio on a number of occasions to buy quality dogs from what I know to be top-notch reputable show breeders, and they always came with an express health warranty of a set number of years. Plus, I've always made a point to research the pedigree. Without taking these common sense precautions, I'd be both a fool and an idiot. Unless you expressly provided those people with some kind of a warranty, then it's tough beans. In fact, maybe that's precisely what's causing the poor dog to go lame: They've been feeding it nothing but tough beans.

BelizeBreeze · Nov 29, 2004

Steve,
When a breeder pets out or sells otherwise pedigree liters which will not be shown, the pedigree and full health certificate will not be provided. The vet check is the max most breeders will do (including a full round of shots) when petting out stock.

I just petted out 24 Grand Champion cats in the last six month and each and every person who received a cat (valued at up to $5,000 on the show circuit) paid for spading or neutering and required shots. It was a difference of approximately $100 as opposed to $3,000 to $5,000 and no one complained.

None received the CFA registration papers either so the cats can never be shown again.

stevek3 · Nov 29, 2004

BelizeBreeze said:
Steve,
When a breeder pets out or sells otherwise pedigree liters which will not be shown, the pedigree and full health certificate will not be provided. The vet check is the max most breeders will do (including a full round of shots) when petting out stock.

I just petted out 24 Grand Champion cats in the last six month and each and every person who received a cat (valued at up to $5,000 on the show circuit) paid for spading or neutering and required shots. It was a difference of approximately $100 as opposed to $3,000 to $5,000 and no one complained.

None received the CFA registration papers either so the cats can never be shown again.

That's cats. Dogs work differently. Pedigrees going back decades can be researched with dogs. Especially now, with the Internet. Sisters, brothers, parents, grandparents. In fact, with the Siberian Huskies I have now, I was able to track a full SIX generations back.

Pet-quality dogs from show breeders are normally sold with both pedigree and health warranty. Some breeders agree to send the AKC certificate itself only after they receive evidence of the pet's subsequent spay or neuter. All reputable dog breeders do it this way.

I also have a couple of purebred Russian Blue cats. I can't track generations of anything, per se. For all I know, their relatives spent their evenings licking the borscht off of Gorbachev's balls.

BelizeBreeze · Nov 29, 2004

I can trace the lineage of my cats all the way back to 1907. And the two Giant Chows back to 1943. And the wire-haried terrier I sold recently as a pet was full AKC registered and all shots but was NOT sold with the pedigree since she was not show quality and was being sold as a pet.

And my lady friend has been one of the top 25 breeders of race horses, dogs and cats and known in Europe, Asia and South America for her quality and has sold more than 200 cats, dogs and Horses for anywhere from $3,000 to $218,000 for the last 23 years before she died earlier this year.

She had also sold breeding cats to five of the top 10 catteries in the world and two Pure Bred Arabians for stud to racing stables in Lexington, KY and White Plains, NY.

Pets are sold differently than show-quality and without a contract, the poster's original question was answered.

stevek3 · Nov 29, 2004

BelizeBreeze said:
I can trace the lineage of my cats all the way back to 1907. And the two Giant Chows back to 1943. And the wire-haried terrier I sold recently as a pet was full AKC registered and all shots but was NOT sold with the pedigree since she was not show quality and was being sold as a pet.

And my lady friend has been one of the top 25 breeders of race horses, dogs and cats and known in Europe, Asia and South America for her quality and has sold more than 200 cats, dogs and Horses for anywhere from $3,000 to $218,000 for the last 23 years before she died earlier this year.

She had also sold breeding cats to five of the top 10 catteries in the world and two Pure Bred Arabians for stud to racing stables in Lexington, KY and White Plains, NY.

Pets are sold differently than show-quality and without a contract, the poster's original question was answered.

Yes, I agree that pet-quality pets are sold differently than show-quality, but the health warranty is the same for both if purchased from a reputable breeder. With dogs, at least. If somebody is going to pay good money for a purebred puppy without any health warranty, then they might as well pick up a rescue dog from the pound or from one of those crazy people that harbors 900 rescue dogs.

torcal · Oct 23, 2005

Pup

CA

OK, you have the money and they have the dog. Do you think they will hire a lawyer in Ohio to sue you for $400, present proof of misrepresentation and put on the stand the vet who made the diagnosis? No.

I'd write them a very nice letter setting forth the facts in detail. If this is a genetic illness, have your vet test another puppy in the litter - or the parents - and determine whether this anomoly exists. If it doesn't, it seems to me that it's impossible for their dog to have it.

Remind them that they got exactly what they paid for and that you still do not understand what the real issues are.

BelizeBreeze · Oct 24, 2005

stevek3 said:
Yes, I agree that pet-quality pets are sold differently than show-quality, but the health warranty is the same for both if purchased from a reputable breeder. With dogs, at least. If somebody is going to pay good money for a purebred puppy without any health warranty, then they might as well pick up a rescue dog from the pound or from one of those crazy people that harbors 900 rescue dogs.

Please post here the health warranty this poster included in their contract for sale. Just hold it up to the monitor and I'll read it.

Breeder question for sale of pup

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