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Land Laws?

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jnchayes

Guest
What is the name of your state? Oklahoma
My grandfather inherited 12 Acres of land in NW Oklahoma from his father. He was born on this land, his father's original farm. A rich Oil man from Oklahoma put up a fence encompassing this land. The fence was in place "he says" for 17 years. My grandparents lived in Kansas up until a month ago and were not able to keep checking on the land. My grandfather took down the fence 5 years ago, then a year ago, then again about a month ago when they moved to Oklahoma. He has now been served with a lawsuit from this man who is trying to claim the land as abandoned. The taxes are kept current every year and he doesnt want to sell. This man has offered to buy the land over the last 20 years and since my grandfather doesnt want to sell, he said he will fight them in court "from now until doomsday and take every cent they own and will still get the land." What are the laws concerning this matter? And what should they do to prepare for court? Thanks for the input on this, it is greatly appreciated! Crystal
 


BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
If gramps or his father have paid the taxes on this land then tell gramps to hire a Real Estate attorney and be done with this idiot.

OR, offer to sell the land for $20 million. Sounds fair to me :D
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
By the way, just to help ease your mind:

FRANCIS v. ROGERS
Case Number: 94607
THE SUPREME COURT OF THE STATE OF OKLAHOMA

To establish adverse possession the claimant must show that possession was hostile, under a claim of right or color of title, actual, open, notorious, exclusive, and continuous for the full statutory period. 10 The statutory period for title by prescription is fifteen years. [ 40 P. 3d 486 ]

¶13 Furthermore, possession must be open, visible, continuous, and exclusive, with a claim of ownership that notifies persons seeking information upon the subject that the premises are not held in subordination to any title or claim of others, but against all titles or claimants. Acquisition by prescription is disfavored, and not to be made out by inference. The party claiming title adversely has the burden of proving every element by clear and positive proof. In questionable cases, presumptions favor the record title holder.
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
Many Thanks

Just wanted to say Thanks for taking the time to ease my mind on this. Shouldn't be my worry but since I love them very much, their worries are mine too. Thanks again... Crystal :)
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
another question

I found this and it concerns me since the man insists he's had a fence up for 17 years. My grandparents are elderly and lived in another state for all of those years. How much water does this hold? Thank you for your time and response to this. Crystal


ADVERSE POSSESSION

Many landowners are surprised to learn that under certain circumstances,
a trespasser can come onto land, occupy it and gain legal ownership of
it. The trespasser may acquire a few feet of property or whole acres in
this way. If someone is using your property, even a small strip on the
edge, you should be alert to the risk.

A trespasser may also gain a legal right to use part of someone else's
property; this is called a prescriptive easement. (See "Easements,"
below.)

The legal doctrine that allows trespassers to become owners is called
"adverse possession." Although the name sounds nasty (and the results
can be), the trespasser is not necessarily an intentional evildoer--far
from it. The trespasser may simply have made a mistake--relying on a
faulty property description in a deed, for example. In rural areas, the
person who moves in and occupies several acres may believe he owned it,
having purchased it from a scoundrel who sold someone else part of the
Brooklyn Bridge. Questions about ownership often wind up in court after
an absent owner of rural property discovers that someone is living on
his land or, when a piece of urban property is sold, a title insurance
company refuses to issue insurance because the neighbor's garage is
found to be standing squarely on the property. If the people involved
can't work something out, the property owner may sue the trespasser, or
the trespasser may bring a lawsuit to quiet title--a request for the
court to settle who owns what.
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
Thanks again

Thanks for easing my mind for a second time today!! :D I just can't stand the thought that they have to go through this for what is rightfully theirs. I think this man is a creep for upsetting them when they should be enjoying their life. Crystal
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
It's worthless.

Who paid the taxes on the property? QUOTE]

Why do you say the info is worthless? Most states don't require that the adverse possessor pay the taxes on the property, and simply paying taxes on the property is insufficient to overcome AP if the possessor can meet the (relatively high) burden of showing all of the elements of AP. If the guy put up a fence and acted as if the property was his own for the statutory period, all he has to prove is "under color of title" (which may be difficult in this case, but is unrelated to the tax issue) to show AP.

But your advice to hire a Real Estate attorney to quiet the title is dead on.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
To show AP in OKLAHOMA All elements must be present and the burden of proof is upon the person making the AP claim. That means that the plaintiff must prove open and notorious use and possession of the land including the fence, uninterrupted for 15 years, taxes and improvements on the land, AND payment of taxes and levies.

If any one of the elements can't be proven beyond doubt, then AP is not allowed. In fact, Oklahoma is one of the few states that require a very high degree of proof by the plaintiff assessing an AP action.

In this case, based on the poster's information that the fence was taken down twice AND that the taxes were paid by the parents, the AP claim is at best precarious.

And DIV, I suggest you read the case I referenced.

13 Furthermore, possession must be open, visible, continuous, and exclusive, with a claim of ownership that notifies persons seeking information upon the subject that the premises are not held in subordination to any title or claim of others, but against all titles or claimants. Acquisition by prescription is disfavored, and not to be made out by inference. The party claiming title adversely has the burden of proving every element by clear and positive proof. In questionable cases, presumptions favor the record title holder.
The case regards an abandonned railroad easement that two property owners claimed on AP.
 
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J

jnchayes

Guest
Thanks for the input

I appreciate the advice. I'm sure it will take a while with our legal system being so burdened at this time, but I will be happy to post the outcome if you are interested. Thanks Again.... Crystal :)
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
Another question

I just found out that my grandparents are thinking of selling because this guy has intimidated them so much. They have not been served with the lawsuit as of today. My husband is wanting to buy the land to keep it in the family. He is a Soldier in the ARMY and says that under the Civil Soldiers and Sailors relief act this man could not come after the land if my husband owns it. I don't pretend to know the law concerning all of this so my question is could this man carry his suit forward and come after us (even if he cannot prove Adverse Possession since he has not paid the taxes)? How much of a headache could this cause us? Thanks again for being so patient with me.
Crystal
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
Transfer of the land will start the AP clock new. So, if there is no notice of a lawsuit at present, your grandparents can sell to your husband, your dog or me and it's over.

And whomever purchases he land should write immediately to the person who put up the fence a certified (RRR) letter demanding they remove the fence within 5 days or face civil action.
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
Thank You

Your knowledge of the law has been very helpful and I very much appreciate your time in helping with this matter.
Crystal :)
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
jnchayes said:
Your knowledge of the law has been very helpful and I very much appreciate your time in helping with this matter.
Crystal :)
Make sure you contact a local real estate attorney to review the situation BEFORE proceeding. We can only direct you. Without a FULL review of the issues I can't say for certain that you OR your grandparents will be protected but it's likely the won't be problems with the transfer is no legal action has been started.
 
J

jnchayes

Guest
Ok

Thank you, we will have it reviewed before we make a final decision. Some very good advice under the circumstances. I would hate to lose the land or the money for something that I have overlooked. I appreciate the input that you have provided for myself and my family. Have a happy holiday.
Crystal :)
 
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