getting court martialed in 2 weeks

rx7punk2 · Nov 30, 2004

What is the name of your state? im in MT

first of my name is arnold im 20yrs old ive been in the air force for about 19months, im facing a court martial on dec 16 and ive been realy bothered by some questions.

i went to canada about 7 months ago and did some stupid stuff, now im being charged with multiple use of mushrooms, use of percoset, distributing percoset (cause i gave one away) and stealing the percocet from a friend (i didnt do that though, hes just trying to save his ass too). i was drugtested shortly after the incident and im guessing they came back negative beacause they would have pressed charges a long time ago. one of the guys that went with us was actually working with OSI(office of special investigation) triyng to get dirt on a fellow airman. up there he was begging me the whole time about giving him a pill, trying to get me to sell my pills and daring me to go talk to some girls knowing that i was married, when we got back he kept buging me for a pill so i gave it to him so he would leave me alone... distribution of percodin is the charge for that. the worst part of all of this is that i gave OSI a statement saying i did the mushrooms, and gave a percocet to 2 arimen. my questions is...
- can they prove i did it just on my word?
- do i have the right to see my drug test results?

me and the other airman that got in trouble, work in the same place and due to our related problems became realy good friends..
- what would happen if i or him refuse to testify against each other?

i realy im a good airman when im doing my job, always was complemented on my abilities and preformance. about a couple of months ago i went to the shrink cause the stress was making me go insane to the point i started to self mutilate, he diagnosted me with cronical depressions and they have been a part of me for a long time. im not a bad person, im the kind of guy that buys candy for kids when they come visit their parents at the work center, i offer myself for anything involving helping others... i dont think im a bad guy, but life has its ways, and worst things have happened to better people. so whatever the outcome of this doesnt realy bother me cause i have to deal with my actions.

today my paralegal dude called me and told me to call my lawyer cause of a positeve "rare" thing happened and i called my lawyer to find out what it was, and the goverment threw a "deal" for me. for some reason my buddy got this so called "deal" also, wich makes me belive they just want to make me plead guilty to make their job easyer. they are offering to drop the charge i didnt commit about stealing the percodin, and giving me a pre-court agreement for a maximum of 3 months in confinement. still open for the bcdischarge and forfitetures he wants to impose.
- is this a deal i should consider?
- if theres any alternative or something i should know before this, please help me out.
i come from a military family and id do anything not to let my pops and grandparents look down on me...

thanx,
arnold

badapple40 · Nov 30, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
What is the name of your state? im in MT

first of my name is arnold im 20yrs old ive been in the air force for about 19months, im facing a court martial on dec 16 and ive been realy bothered by some questions.

i went to canada about 7 months ago and did some stupid stuff, now im being charged with multiple use of mushrooms, use of percoset, distributing percoset (cause i gave one away) and stealing the percocet from a friend (i didnt do that though, hes just trying to save his ass too). i was drugtested shortly after the incident and im guessing they came back negative beacause they would have pressed charges a long time ago. one of the guys that went with us was actually working with OSI(office of special investigation) triyng to get dirt on a fellow airman. up there he was begging me the whole time about giving him a pill, trying to get me to sell my pills and daring me to go talk to some girls knowing that i was married, when we got back he kept buging me for a pill so i gave it to him so he would leave me alone... distribution of percodin is the charge for that. the worst part of all of this is that i gave OSI a statement saying i did the mushrooms, and gave a percocet to 2 arimen. my questions is...
- can they prove i did it just on my word?
- do i have the right to see my drug test results?

me and the other airman that got in trouble, work in the same place and due to our related problems became realy good friends..
- what would happen if i or him refuse to testify against each other?

i realy im a good airman when im doing my job, always was complemented on my abilities and preformance. about a couple of months ago i went to the shrink cause the stress was making me go insane to the point i started to self mutilate, he diagnosted me with cronical depressions and they have been a part of me for a long time. im not a bad person, im the kind of guy that buys candy for kids when they come visit their parents at the work center, i offer myself for anything involving helping others... i dont think im a bad guy, but life has its ways, and worst things have happened to better people. so whatever the outcome of this doesnt realy bother me cause i have to deal with my actions.

today my paralegal dude called me and told me to call my lawyer cause of a positeve "rare" thing happened and i called my lawyer to find out what it was, and the goverment threw a "deal" for me. for some reason my buddy got this so called "deal" also, wich makes me belive they just want to make me plead guilty to make their job easyer. they are offering to drop the charge i didnt commit about stealing the percodin, and giving me a pre-court agreement for a maximum of 3 months in confinement. still open for the bcdischarge and forfitetures he wants to impose.
- is this a deal i should consider?
- if theres any alternative or something i should know before this, please help me out.
i come from a military family and id do anything not to let my pops and grandparents look down on me...

thanx,
arnold

Arnold,

I've represented (as an ADC), and continue to represent (I'm a reserve Appellate Defense Counsel, in fact, if your case goes up on appeal, you have a shot of me handling it), airmen in the situation you are in.

Have you talked to your defense counsel about an entrapment defense, especially regarding the distribution charge?

Regarding the confession you gave the OSI dudes, what, if anything, did they do to have you "spill your guts?" Did they give you your Article 31 rights prior to questioning? tell you all the charges you were suspected of?

Keep in mind, they aren't proving it only on your confession. They are also proving it with their informant, and possibly your co-defendant.

Have you considered asking them to drop the distribution charge as well? In the long run, the usage convictions aren't going to sting nearly as bad as the distribution conviction. You may want to look at the possibility of resigning in lieu of the court-martial.

And yes, you have the ability to see your drug test results. Your defense counsel should be requesting that in discovery, and the military justice system has broad discovery rules.

I think the writing is on the wall that you are going to get a BCD. My goal, were I representing you, would be to minimize confinement and get rid of the stealing and distribution charges (making it a simple possession case).

You may private message me if you want to discuss this further. I do know the area defense counsel up at Malstrom.

I am hesitant to do this, as I do not know your situation, but you may want to look into retaining civilian counsel. It may cost you $15,000 or so, but TRUST ME, 10 years from now, you are going to wish you did. I can give you a short list of attorneys I know personally who you need to be looking at to retain.

rx7punk2 · Nov 30, 2004

possibility of resigning in lieu of the court-martial???

whats this all about?? i've heard some stuff in the internet but im not sure how it works... i find ur information to be quite useful but 15k is a lot of money, specially when i already have to pay a bonus back... if i could afford it i would do it, but its almost impossible with this bling bling airman pay

badapple40 · Dec 1, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
possibility of resigning in lieu of the court-martial???

whats this all about?? i've heard some stuff in the internet but im not sure how it works... i find ur information to be quite useful but 15k is a lot of money, specially when i already have to pay a bonus back... if i could afford it i would do it, but its almost impossible with this bling bling airman pay

I wrote this half awake. RILO is only available to officers facing court martial. You may want to consider getting a loan to pay for civilian counsel. Trust me, 10 years from now, you'll wish you had.

What is the ADC telling you? Did you try mentioning what I told you to above, to get the distribution business kicked?

rmet4nzkx · Dec 1, 2004

in addition to what Badapple40 said,
Was the Rx for Percocet from the USAF?
Was the Diagnosis of Chronic Depression Dx by USAF doc?
What other Rx are you currently taking, have taken and/or treatment?
What as not worked or reactions?
It is possible to possibly get out on a GD rather than BCD if your Rx was related to treatment and that you were, impaired, not totally adjusted to a treatment plan and/or have some personality disorders, and possible to stay in possibly if treatment is successful. It is a long shot, but I have seen it work.

GUIDE TO PERSONALITY DISORDERS Alan R. Kolski, Maj, USAF, BSC. ... "A recommendation for discharge under this ... In general, these individuals avoid making demands on others for fear of jeopardizing ...
http://public.charleston.amc.af.mil/Base_Agencies/Life_Management/PD GUIDE 2001.DOC

Robert}. Ursano, MD Ann E. Norwood, MD ... Naval Medical Center, and Malcolm Grow USAF Medical Center ... to less- a state of chronic deprivation and ... In general, these individuals had difficulty adjusting to ...
http://www.usuhs.mil/psy/PrisonerOfWar.pdf

Complete Summary ... toward detection of associated general medical conditions. ... mental health concerns before discharge from the ... also present with enduring, chronic symptoms which ...
http://www.guideline.gov/summary/pdf.aspx?doc_id=2585&stat=1&string=
... patient has no other mental health concerns before discharge from the ... General Considerations. ... to impairment from a number of other chronic medical conditions. ...
http://www.guideline.gov/summary/word.aspx?doc_id=2585&stat=1&string=

rx7punk2 · Dec 1, 2004

badapple40
about the distribution charges, i had given one to my friend earlyer and at the end of the canada trip i gave one to the informant... so i still distributed to my friend, so there goes the entrapment, or so the ADC says.

rmet4nzkx
the percodin was from the air force but it wasnt prescribed to me at the moment... it was later prescribed for wisdom teeth surgery about a month after the incident... for my depression issue i was prescribed effexor for about 2 weeks but after not being able to sleep well they changed it to zoloft and had the seme outcome than effexor only it took about a month for it to affect my sleep. so they took me off all medications. the reazon i went to the shrink was beacause i got in to an argument with my wife and ended up destroying some belongings and inflicte wounds upon myself with a knife and when the depression got realy bad i started to burn my skin for unknown reasons... just puting out more info out there since u guyz have been a great help for me so far... for some reason i feel that military lawyers are trained to convict you and not really help... i just feel like they are bs'ing me whenever i talk to them... im going through some realy tough times, but i have to keep on this for my own future... im not even sure if im taking the "deal" or delegate... but thats life... thanx for all the help so far... anything else anyone can add just let me know..
thanx again,
arnold

badapple40 · Dec 2, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
badapple40
about the distribution charges, i had given one to my friend earlyer and at the end of the canada trip i gave one to the informant... so i still distributed to my friend, so there goes the entrapment, or so the ADC says.

rmet4nzkx
the percodin was from the air force but it wasnt prescribed to me at the moment... it was later prescribed for wisdom teeth surgery about a month after the incident... for my depression issue i was prescribed effexor for about 2 weeks but after not being able to sleep well they changed it to zoloft and had the seme outcome than effexor only it took about a month for it to affect my sleep. so they took me off all medications. the reazon i went to the shrink was beacause i got in to an argument with my wife and ended up destroying some belongings and inflicte wounds upon myself with a knife and when the depression got realy bad i started to burn my skin for unknown reasons... just puting out more info out there since u guyz have been a great help for me so far... for some reason i feel that military lawyers are trained to convict you and not really help... i just feel like they are bs'ing me whenever i talk to them... im going through some realy tough times, but i have to keep on this for my own future... im not even sure if im taking the "deal" or delegate... but thats life... thanx for all the help so far... anything else anyone can add just let me know..
thanx again,
arnold

Arnold,

Where did you get the percocet? How exactly do they have you charged? (e.g. what articles? 112a? How many counts/specifications?) A PTA in this case may or may not be a good idea. There are SERIOUS penalties for the distribution charge (like 15 years imprisonment).

I would re-approach the ADC, indicate you are willing to enter pleas to all the charges of possession, in exchange for the prosecution dropping the larceny (theft) charge and distribution charge and agreeing to cap confinement at 3 months. Indicate that it was ONE pill that was distributed, and, while they technically can prove their case on it, assuming no one changes their stories, it is fundamentally unfair to convict you of a charge of distribution when that charge is typically reserved for major drug dealers, not recreational users who hand one pill to one friend (and then you've got the entrapment issue as respects the informant).

As I indicated, you are going to be looking at a BCD. I think thats unavoidable. You could be looking at significant confinement as well. Do not let them talk you into trial by judge alone. Tell them you want trial by officer members (don't let them talk you into trial by 1/3 enlisted). Again, propose a counter to their PTA. Make sure the ADC takes it to the SJA/legal office -- remind him he has a duty under the ethical rules to do so. If he won't, tell him you'll retain civilian counsel.

I seriously think you need to look at hiring civilian counsel.

Let me give you a short list:

1. Charles Gittens

Law Offices of Charles W. Gittins
P.O. Box 144
Middletown, VA 22645
phone: 540-868-0949
fax: 540-868-0976
eMail: [email protected]

2. Frank Spinner

Law Offices of Frank J. Spinner
7035 Campus Drive, Suite 904
Colorado Springs, Colorado 80920
phone: (719) 598-6494

3. David Sheldon

Law Offices of David P. Sheldon
Barracks Row, 512 8th Street, S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20003
Tel (202) 546-9575
Toll free (866) 546-9575
Fax (202) 546-0135

Charles Gittens and Frank Spinner have been known to take cases where there has been an injustice and represent the client for free. I doubt you'll be looking at that here, but you may want to call them and see.

rx7punk2 · Dec 2, 2004

i got the percoset froma fellow airmen in the dorms, they have me with multiple use of percoset in 2 ocations that i specified, and one of them was after it was prescribed to me, im guessing it was 112a...

rmet4nzkx · Dec 2, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
i got the percoset froma fellow airmen in the dorms, they have me with multiple use of percoset in 2 ocations that i specified, and one of them was after it was prescribed to me, im guessing it was 112a...

OUCH!

Did they charge the person who gave you the Percocet?

rx7punk2 · Dec 2, 2004

nope, he hasnt been charged.. or talked about it... well im guessing justice has preference... cause also, the guy that gave me the mushrooms dindt get charged with distribution....

rmet4nzkx · Dec 2, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
nope, he hasnt been charged.. or talked about it... well im guessing justice has preference... cause also, the guy that gave me the mushrooms dindt get charged with distribution....

Did you tell them who gave you those things?
Are you inferring that if they were prosecued that would upset the balance there?

badapple40 · Dec 2, 2004

Have you tried offering to give up all of your sources and your full cooperation in the prosecution of those sources in exchange for them dropping the distribution and theft charges?

Base legal wants the bigger fish-- trust me. Go to the ADC, tell him thats what you want to do.

rx7punk2 · Dec 2, 2004

theres nothing to offer that i havent already said... i did talk to the lawyer and shes going to try and get that dist. charge droped, to single distribution

badapple40 · Dec 2, 2004

rx7punk2 said:
theres nothing to offer that i havent already said... i did talk to the lawyer and shes going to try and get that dist. charge droped, to single distribution

Which is fine, but she should really try to push getting all the distribution charges dropped. The base legal office gets an easy drug conviction, showing they are tough on drugs without having to work for it, you probably get a BCD, making their life easy.

You are already paying a hell of a price with the BCD and 3 months in the poke. It just seems to me that you weren't doing enough "bad" to deserve the label of "drug dealer" that the distribution charge is going to get you. Especially when you look at the informant issue when you didn't even want to give the guy the percocet in the first place, and, as respects your friend, you gave him one pill...

Tell the ADC to also argue that you came forward, cooperated, and want to provide assistance to the legal folks to nail the real drug pushers on base.

Let me explain something else to you -- in the long run, its better to agree to 6 months in jail and them dropping the distribution charges than it is 3. Sure, it doesn't seem that way now, but down the road, in terms of an eventual pardon, in terms of an eventual discharge upgrade, and a host of other things, the distribution charge will sting. Its the gift that keeps giving. You need to avoid that first and foremost.

IT2(SW) · Apr 26, 2005

Currently stationed in Hawaii

BadApple, I noticed in this thread (among others) you had mentioned upgrading discharge status. Please note this is simply a question relating to that. I am not currently looking at a discharge this is just for my information. I am currently under the impression, as is I am assuming most of the AD service members in the military right now, that discharge upgrades are limited to those who can prove that they were not guilty of the charges they were convicted of.

Is there a place you can direct me to where I can study this in more detail? Or could you instruct me in this?

Please accept my appologies for listing this question in this thread, I just wasn't sure if i should post a new thread to ask a short question.

getting court martialed in 2 weeks

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