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My Fault, or his?

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amdworld

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?
California (I'm on vacation), but I live in New Hampshire.

Recently, a person asked me to accept payments in the US by bank wire transfer, and to transfer the received money through Western Union to his place in Estonia. I agreed, but said that I would take no responsibility for any problems that can arrise.
Anyways, I recently received a wire transfer of 5000 USD, and the person confirmed it was his. It turns out, the person is selling rolex's, and well, I wasn't surprised by the large sum.
Just as he asked, I sent him payments by Western Union. Now, the catch is, he isn't responding to my e-mails at all. Therefore, I can't confirm if he sent the rolex or not to the buyer.

Now... does the buyer take the fault of actually buying the rolex from the person in Estonia without doing proper research?
Or is it fully my fault because I accepted the payment and sent it through WEstern Union?
 


jojowood

Junior Member
personally, i would not sent him any money. a ripoff is probably involved. i would contact the police or go the fbi website or something. you are not responsible for his actions, only your own, but this sounds like money laudrying to me. he is using you to hide his trail
 

kat1963

Senior Member
The chance of this being a fraudulent wire transfer is 99.9%. (ex: Identity theft and account takeover, uncollected or fraudulent deposits used to fund a wire transfers.) So getting the Rolex to the other guy is going to be the least of your worries. Try paying the bank back 5 g's & knowing that you gave your bank account information to a scam artist. DOH! Hope you don't have direct deposit!
KAT
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
Or is it fully my fault because I accepted the payment and sent it through WEstern Union?
When you received the payment from the buyer, you became an "agent" for the seller. If the buyer doesn't get his Rolex, he can come after you, as the seller's agent, for reimbursement, and it will be up to YOU to travel to Estonia and try and recover your losses from the seller.

Now... does the buyer take the fault of actually buying the rolex from the person in Estonia without doing proper research?
Well, normally I would say that someone buying something so expensive from someone they don't know from a country that, frankly, isn't really known for being a trustworthy place for buying luxury goods, is stupid, or at least really careless.

However, since the seller has an agent (you) in the U.S., if something goes awry -- and it will -- the buyer can take recourse against the agent in the U.S., up to and including an enforceable court judgment. So the buyer is looking pretty smart now.

So, you can add that to everything the others said above, and good luck.
 

amdworld

Junior Member
I'm sorry, I dont' know much bout law..
But once the buyer places a law suit against me and asks for a court martial thing...
If i can provide him with a 5000 USD refund..
it can all be solved, am I correct?
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
I'm sorry, I dont' know much bout law..
But once the buyer places a law suit against me and asks for a court martial thing...
If i can provide him with a 5000 USD refund..
it can all be solved, am I correct?
Yeah, you'll probably be square with the buyer, but then you'll be out $5,000 -- and it'll be up to you then to go after the guy in Estonia (or wherever he REALLY is) to get your $5,000 back. It ain't Western Union's fault, so you can forget about going after them.

Where is the buyer from???
Good question. I assumed from the post that the seller was in Estonia and the buyer was in the U.S., and the OP was acting essentially as the seller's U.S. agent.

If the buyer is also outside the U.S., then he'll have to travel to the U.S. to sue the OP.
 

amdworld

Junior Member
Hm.. thanks for the info people.
The buyer, I believe, is in the States, and I am more than willing to pay him back the 5000 USD, if he accepts to receive payment over the course of 2 years... (Yea.. it does seem a lot, but that's the only way i guess).
About the fraud dude in Estonia, I'm pretty sure he's in Estonia, tallin, to be exact.
I have an IP, which did point to estonia, and the payments using Western Union were to Estonia.
Sooo...
i traced his IP, and it led to an internet company in Tallinn, and they seem to have an address, phone number, and name, which they are willing to give out once my lawyer contacts them.
And on top of this, Western Union has a contact info also about the person who received the payment in tallinn. SO, I got two leads, and that's pretty good news.
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
and I am more than willing to pay him back the 5000 USD, if he accepts to receive payment over the course of 2 years...
I guess you can hope he will -- but he's not obligated to -- he could still take you to court and obtain a judgment against you if he is unwilling to accept payments.

i traced his IP, and it led to an internet company in Tallinn, and they seem to have an address, phone number, and name, which they are willing to give out once my lawyer contacts them.
And on top of this, Western Union has a contact info also about the person who received the payment in tallinn. SO, I got two leads, and that's pretty good news.
Good luck.
 

Happy Trails

Senior Member
amdworld said:
What is the name of your state?
California (I'm on vacation), but I live in New Hampshire.

Recently, a person asked me to accept payments in the US by bank wire transfer, and to transfer the received money through Western Union to his place in Estonia. I agreed, but said that I would take no responsibility for any problems that can arrise.
Anyways, I recently received a wire transfer of 5000 USD, and the person confirmed it was his. It turns out, the person is selling rolex's, and well, I wasn't surprised by the large sum.
Just as he asked, I sent him payments by Western Union. Now, the catch is, he isn't responding to my e-mails at all. Therefore, I can't confirm if he sent the rolex or not to the buyer.

Now... does the buyer take the fault of actually buying the rolex from the person in Estonia without doing proper research?
Or is it fully my fault because I accepted the payment and sent it through WEstern Union?
This appears to be another creative way to scam people.

Follow the links: (Jetx has some links inside the free advice forum posts that may be helpful.)

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=193982&highlight=Nigeria

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=181211&highlight=Nigeria

https://forum.freeadvice.com/showthread.php?t=190678&highlight=Nigeria

Run your own forum search under 'nigeria'.

Also a Yahoo search "scams', 'Nigeria', these scammers have been at it for years. Our bank actually had a brochure available for people on this very problem.

Some links from a Yahoo search:

http://www.doshelp.com/Scams-fraud/wire_transfer_scams.htm

http://www.goldhaven.com/scam_page/Nigerian1.htm

http://bmwcentral.com/help/fraud.html

Didn't you stop and ask yourself why this guy needed you to be a party in this transfer? Did he offer you something in return for your trouble?
 

amdworld

Junior Member
Damn..
I feel sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo stupid..
Yes, the guy gave me commission, and like everyone here states, my greediness over took me.
Luckily, though, the fee I'll owe is only about 5000 USD, and this amoutn can be reached.
Well, I'm going to contact the lawyer, and inform him.
Thank you everyone on Freeadvice.com for your help :)
Btw, i'm gonna also inform the FBI, and once/if I get the guy in Estonia, he is up for the ride to ....

ya, peace out, and thanks everyone.
 

amdworld

Junior Member
oh yea.. and one more question..
I'm trying to seek consultation with a lawyer, and since I live in New Hampshire, i found a person using the "Post your case to an attorney.. no cost, etc..." on freeadvice.com

Can anyone recommend me a very good internet fraud lawyer?
I know it may be easier for me if the person is in New Hampshire, where I live, but I would prefer quality of the lawyer more than anything.
 

kat1963

Senior Member
I read this twice & I'm STILL not sure who you are going to pay?? The wire transfer was a fraud, the BANK is going to be coming after you for 5 G's too. You see, someone out there has the Western Union 5g's that were in YOUR account. You are the one that is left holding the bag. You want to be out 10k by paying the buyer who is most likely part of the scam??? NO. Dude, you are in over your head. I have no lawyer suggestions in your area but highlly suggest you speak to one now.

KAT
 

amdworld

Junior Member
Why was the wire transfer a fraud...
well, like.. the buyer is legit, and he payed me 5grands.
I'll pay him back 5 grands, and with that, I have no issues pending.
From there, I will place a claim to the FBI, give them all the info I got, which is a lot. (IP tracing back to Estonian ISP, who has a contact information to the fraud seller.)
And western Union also has info on the person who claimed the 5 grands I sent.
 

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