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Court Martial in Iraq

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kirika

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Texas

First of all, please, no judgement, just advice.

My husband is in the Army, in Iraq. He has been in the service for just about 2 years. Several people from his unit stole a large quantity of electronics from the PX, and he acted as a lookout, then recieved a $300 DVD player from them.
I'm not sure what phase of this whole court martial thing he's in. His commander has already recommended court martial, and he has had several preliminary meetings with TDS but hasn't been assigned a lawyer. I am not sure if he has formally been charged or not, but he has been told that he will be charged as an accessory to larceny.

My questions:
1. What is the maximum punishment for accessory to larceny? Also, what is the maximum punishment for receiving stolen goods? (It only makes sense that would be an additional charge) He has been told that he may be facing jail time--how likely is that if he has no previous record, not even a counsiling statement?
2. He has stated that all of the soldiers were unaware that they had been read their rights when they made statements, which seems to be the only incriminating evidence against my husband. (His DVD player was not found in the CID investigation, but he did make a statement about it.) What are the chances, in your experience, that this is true? In civilian police departments, you have to sign a paper saying that you waive your rights. Is this true for the military?
3. He has stated that it may help his case if he recieves letters from people that basically state how he is an awesome, moral person. Is this true? If so, where would it help-the decision to court martial vs article 15, or in the sentencing phase?
4. He is scheduled to return home in mid-Feburary to March. Where will his trial be held? Is it more likely they would extend his time in Iraq to hold the court martial or postpone the court martial until he returns?
5. Is there any way that I can help him?
6. Is it too late for him to get an Article 15?
7. Is there any way for me to keep track of what is going on? I plan to call my rear detachment on Monday, but any other suggestions would be wonderful.

Thank you for all of your help, and sorry if I asked too much... he's really a good guy and this is really scaring me, the thought of him going to prison.
 


rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
I don't know what to say.
My son is in Mosul.
What ever your husband's past record, he must be a big disappointment to you and to his fellow service members with whom he serves. At a time when they need to stick together and support each other, he and a few of his selfish buddys go out and steal from the PX how can they depend on him. Yet he won't be in Iraq must longer and eventually will have his CM, jail time, there is a good chance, I understand the wether in Kansas is better than Texas or Iraq.
 

kirika

Junior Member
And my best friend was in the mess hall attack. And several others have died throughout the year. And my husband has been extended twice. Shall I continue to one-up you?
We are not bad people, despite what you may think.
I am so incredibly pissed at my husband right now, but that is none of your concern.
I want advice on how to deal with what has happened. Sitting here and regretting it and wishing it away won't do anything. Hard work and faith may help, so that's what I'm trying.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
I'm not trying to one-up you and my son was there the other day as well. You should be pissed with your husband, what could he be thinking?

There is not much of anything you can do for him, other than to support him and work with his attorney they will have a better idea. You will never know what really happened. What people who comit crime fail to realize is that they are not the only one who pays the consequences. In addition to jail time there may be loss of pay and other benefits, all of which may affect you.
 

csporluck

Member
Get an attorney. There ARE problems at the AAFES deployed locations, especially with the TCN (Third Country Nationals) or local help hired there. Many incidents have been known to occurr, that's why often times you'll see soldiers pulling duty there, to make sure nothing happens... I know of one guy who was accused by a TCN employee of assaulting him, and the American was fired for it, though he didn't do it.. and the only other witness was another TCN who hated him.

Getting court-marshalled for shoplifting a 3 dollar extension cord seems stupid, especially if he has a receipt (though handwritten). Get a lawyer. Call your Congressmen...

Think of it this way... at least he's in Kuwait and not Iraq... get him cleared, or at least out of the military on somethign other than dishonorable discharge.
 

badapple40

Senior Member
My answers:

My questions:
1. What is the maximum punishment for accessory to larceny? Also, what is the maximum punishment for receiving stolen goods? (It only makes sense that would be an additional charge) He has been told that he may be facing jail time--how likely is that if he has no previous record, not even a counsiling statement?
Since he was the lookout associated with the act itself, he is subject to punishment the same as the people who stole. What type of court-martial has this been referred to? A special? A general? It matters. If its a special court-martial, he is looking at a Bad Conduct Discharge, up to one year confinement (jail time), a fine, and forfeiture of pay and allowances. Are we talking about an Article 15? If its a general court-martial...he is facing a dishonorable discharge, 5 years confinement, a fine, and forfeiture of pay and allowances.


2. He has stated that all of the soldiers were unaware that they had been read their rights when they made statements, which seems to be the only incriminating evidence against my husband. (His DVD player was not found in the CID investigation, but he did make a statement about it.) What are the chances, in your experience, that this is true? In civilian police departments, you have to sign a paper saying that you waive your rights. Is this true for the military?
He probably lacks standing to supress the other soldier's statements. Unless you have evidence that the CID guys tortured or obtained an involuntary confessions, these statements from the other soldier's are going to be admissible against your husband. You only have standing to supress your own statements if taken contrary to the provisions of Article 31.

3. He has stated that it may help his case if he recieves letters from people that basically state how he is an awesome, moral person. Is this true? If so, where would it help-the decision to court martial vs article 15, or in the sentencing phase?
Possibly both. If the defense attorney can put together a package and convince the convening authority to handle this with an Article 15 (don't count on it -- larceny from the PX is serious), or with a special opposed to a general court-martial, he will try doing so. They also come in for sentencing.


4. He is scheduled to return home in mid-Feburary to March. Where will his trial be held? Is it more likely they would extend his time in Iraq to hold the court martial or postpone the court martial until he returns?
They'll make that decision based on the location of the witnesses. If it is in the U.S., it will occur wherever his normal duty station is (or, if he is a reservist, wherever the command he's been assigned to is located)

5. Is there any way that I can help him?
Support him, stand by him, testify for him in sentencing. You may want to look at hiring a civilian defense counsel. I suggest Frank Spinner, Charles Gittens, or David Sheldon. And I suggest you do so ASAP. It'll cost you $10,000 or so, but will be well worth it.

6. Is it too late for him to get an Article 15?
Probably.

7. Is there any way for me to keep track of what is going on? I plan to call my rear detachment on Monday, but any other suggestions would be wonderful.
Your husband would be the best source.


Were I defending your husband, I'd be talking to the prosecution, with the character evidence in hand, offering for him to testify against the main people committing the offenses in exchange for either an Article 15 or an extremely lenient PTA (pre-trial agreement). That, of course, is NOT something your husband should try for himself.

Let me ask you one other thing, did your husband know they were going to steal the DVD player? Or did he just think they were going to steal something else?

The reason I ask is... larceny penalties under the Rules for Court Martial, differ based on the dollar amount involved.
 

kirika

Junior Member
Thank you very much for your help.

I think that this has been referred to a general court martial, simply because there is the possibility of a dishonorable, instead of just a bad-conduct, and also because two of the people who did the actual stealing had prior records, so it would seem to make more sense to be a general.
Is it mandatory that he be tried at the general with everyone else, or is it possible that he could get a special though the character statements, etc?

The hard part is that he's still working in a unit, and so I doubt we'll get to speak more than a few times until after the elections, and by that point, he'll be almost ready to come home.

Unfortunatly, hiring a civilian lawyer is WAY out of our price range--he's lower enlisted, and I'm a civilian EMT.
I did tell him that once he gets assigned his individual attorney (they have only spoken to the group so far), to see if it's possible to testify against everyone else. I just hope that his lawyer listens, though the people at TDS told the group that about 1/3 of their defendants are able to stay in the military. I'm not sure if they were being honest about that, though.

Oh, and the DVD player was the least expensive thing stolen--they took laptops and TVs and, well, most of the electronics department, really.

He seems to have done everything possible to make this as difficult as possible.
 

badapple40

Senior Member
kirika said:
Thank you very much for your help.

I think that this has been referred to a general court martial, simply because there is the possibility of a dishonorable, instead of just a bad-conduct, and also because two of the people who did the actual stealing had prior records, so it would seem to make more sense to be a general.
Is it mandatory that he be tried at the general with everyone else, or is it possible that he could get a special though the character statements, etc?

The hard part is that he's still working in a unit, and so I doubt we'll get to speak more than a few times until after the elections, and by that point, he'll be almost ready to come home.

Unfortunatly, hiring a civilian lawyer is WAY out of our price range--he's lower enlisted, and I'm a civilian EMT.
I did tell him that once he gets assigned his individual attorney (they have only spoken to the group so far), to see if it's possible to testify against everyone else. I just hope that his lawyer listens, though the people at TDS told the group that about 1/3 of their defendants are able to stay in the military. I'm not sure if they were being honest about that, though.

Oh, and the DVD player was the least expensive thing stolen--they took laptops and TVs and, well, most of the electronics department, really.

He seems to have done everything possible to make this as difficult as possible.
Yup, his defense counsel should pursue a separate forum for him, -- which he can work out during the negotiating process with the convening authority, especially if he plans to plea guilty as part of the PTA. Tell him not to open his mouth until he gets a grant of immunity. The Army has issues with immunity and has had court-martials reversed on that basis. U.S. v. Mapes, CAAF 2004.
 

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