grandparents rights

undefinedWhat is the name of your state?Arkansas
My daughter had been living with her companion for two years, in that time he was trying to divorce his wife who he had 4 children with.She was making it difficult and would not give him a divorce, in the meantime he and my daughter had a son. When my grandson was a month old, my daughters companion was killed in a car accident leaving behind 5 little children. Now the wife won't let his parents see her children unless they don't have anything to do with my daughter and her son and they are never to mention my daughter and her son and if her kids come to visit they are to take down any picture they might have of my grandson. These other 4 little children were allowed to see my little grandson and Heidi but now they are not and she is being bitter and vindictive, even though her children love my daughter and their brother. Grandparents rights aren't what they use to be and what do these people have to do to get visitation with their other 4 grandchildren? This was their second and last son that was killed in a car accident, they lost theri first son when he was 19 on graduation night and now their last son and all they have left are their grandchildren. It is tearing my daughter up that they aren't being allowed to see their grandchildren because of her and the baby but her and the baby are all that's keeping them going at the moment. What can they do?

Cheryl49 said:

undefinedWhat is the name of your state?Arkansas
My daughter had been living with her companion for two years, in that time he was trying to divorce his wife who he had 4 children with.She was making it difficult and would not give him a divorce, in the meantime he and my daughter had a son. When my grandson was a month old, my daughters companion was killed in a car accident leaving behind 5 little children. Now the wife won't let his parents see her children unless they don't have anything to do with my daughter and her son and they are never to mention my daughter and her son and if her kids come to visit they are to take down any picture they might have of my grandson. These other 4 little children were allowed to see my little grandson and Heidi but now they are not and she is being bitter and vindictive, even though her children love my daughter and their brother. Grandparents rights aren't what they use to be and what do these people have to do to get visitation with their other 4 grandchildren? This was their second and last son that was killed in a car accident, they lost theri first son when he was 19 on graduation night and now their last son and all they have left are their grandchildren. It is tearing my daughter up that they aren't being allowed to see their grandchildren because of her and the baby but her and the baby are all that's keeping them going at the moment. What can they do?

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I got this from the Arkansas Grandparent's visitation act: I hope it helps.

9-13-103. Visitation rights of grandparents.

(a)(1) Upon petition by a person properly before it, a chancery court of this state may grant grandparents and great-grandparents reasonable visitation rights with respect to their grandchild or grandchildren or great-grandchild or great-grandchildren at any time if:

(A) The marital relationship between the parents of the child has been severed by death, divorce, or legal separation; or

(B) The child is in the custody or under the guardianship of a person other than one (1) or both of his natural or adoptive parents; or

(C) The child is illegitimate, and the person is a maternal grandparent of the illegitimate child; or

(D) The child is illegitimate, and the person is a paternal grandparent of the illegitimate child, and paternity has been established by a court of competent jurisdiction.

(2) The visitation rights may only be granted when the court determines that such an order would be in the best interest and welfare of the minor.

(3)(A) An order denying visitation rights to grandparents and great-grandparents shall be in writing and shall state the reasons for denial.

(B) An order denying visitation rights is a final order for purposes of appeal.

(b) If the court denies the petition requesting grandparent visitation rights and determines that the petition for grandparent visitation rights is not well-founded, was filed with malicious intent or purpose, or is not in the best interest and welfare of the child, the court may, upon motion of the respondent, order the petitioner to pay reasonable attorney's fees and court costs to the attorney of the respondent, after taking into consideration the financial ability of the petitioner and the circumstances involved.

(c) The provisions of subsections (a) and (b) of this section shall only be applicable in situations:

(1) In which there is a severed marital relationship between the parents of the natural or adoptive children by either death, divorce, or legal separation; or

(2) In which the child is in the custody or under the guardianship of a person other than one (1) or both of his natural or adoptive parents; or

(3) If the child is illegitimate.

History. Acts 1985, No. 403, §§ 1, 3; A.S.A. 1947, §§ 34-1211.2, 34-1211.3; Acts 1987, No. 17, § 1; 1993, No. 1231, § 1; 1995, No. 1200, § 1.

grandparents act

Arkansas law I was told had recently changed to make it harder for grandparents to get visitation with the grandchildren. Is there any new law that makes it harder that you know of? They have already consulted an attorney with no results.

Cheryl49 said:

Arkansas law I was told had recently changed to make it harder for grandparents to get visitation with the grandchildren. Is there any new law that makes it harder that you know of? They have already consulted an attorney with no results.

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You would have to research that...

Cheryl49 said:

Arkansas law I was told had recently changed to make it harder for grandparents to get visitation with the grandchildren. Is there any new law that makes it harder that you know of? They have already consulted an attorney with no results.

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In general, all across the country laws regarding grandparent visitation have become more restrictive. This is due to a landmark case heard by the US Supreme Court...Troxel vs Granville. Its not that Arkansas's law has changed, but rather than case law since 2000 has narrowed how the statute can be used. It is very difficult to win a grandparent visitation lawsuit, and the are generally more expensive to fight than even a parent vs parent case.

The biggest danger that someone faces in initiating a gpv suit, is that it creates an immediate hostile relationship (to the extreme) with the parent. If the grandparent loses...then its pretty much guaranteed that they will have no hope of seeing their grandchildren again.

If grandma has already consulted with an attorney with no results, then she has most likely already recieved the most accurate answers that she can get.

Grandparents rights aren't what they use to be and what do these people have to do to get visitation with their other 4 grandchildren?

They are probably going to have to do as their mother requests. Keep her children away from the child he had with the woman he had left her and his other children for. It's pretty simple and if the only issue at hand is the grandparents wanting to see these children they will be more than willing to accomodate this mother's request.

Their mother is probably acting vindictive and bitter because she is in a lot of pain. The man she had 4 children with chose to leave her and them to live with your daughter and have another child. She wouldn't give him a divorce because she was probably hoping her husband would come home one day. Now he is dead and so is all her hope. Situations like this can cause a person to feel a miriad of feelings. Tell these grandparents to try and see it from her perspective and they may be more willing to give her what she needs right now.

Another thing...this is a woman who was married to this man for quite some time or there would not be 4 children. She was his WIFE, gave him his children and probably loved him as well as she knew to love. Now she finds herself having to deal with the live in lover of the father of her children at a time when she should be given some consideration over her loss.

You say these people are making it because of your daughter and her child. Maybe what your daughter should do is begin to think about the feelings of the woman whose husband she was living with and step back a little.

It's hell loosing a child in a car accident, it's hell to loose two children. It's also hell to loose your husband and the father of your 4 children to another one. I'm willing to bet that your daughter, her companions parents or you have no idea of the hell that man's wife has lived with since the day he left her with 4 of his children.

Tell your daughter and tell these grandparents they are not the only one's who have been hurt in this situation. Maybe if they pay a little attention to the woman who gave them the majority of their grandchildren and the pain she has experienced she might let go of some of her bitterness.

In my opinion this woman doesn't owe her in-laws anything and she certainly doesn't owe your daughter the courtesy of even looking her in the face.

It always boggles my mind to hear stories of how people will virtually destroy someone's life and future the way your daughter did this lady and then sit around and wring their hands when that person responds with anger. Tell them to show some respect and defference for someone other than themselves and they might get some in return from that person.

BethM said:

Grandparents rights aren't what they use to be and what do these people have to do to get visitation with their other 4 grandchildren?

They are probably going to have to do as their mother requests. Keep her children away from the child he had with the woman he had left her and his other children for. It's pretty simple and if the only issue at hand is the grandparents wanting to see these children they will be more than willing to accomodate this mother's request.

Their mother is probably acting vindictive and bitter because she is in a lot of pain. The man she had 4 children with chose to leave her and them to live with your daughter and have another child. She wouldn't give him a divorce because she was probably hoping her husband would come home one day. Now he is dead and so is all her hope. Situations like this can cause a person to feel a miriad of feelings. Tell these grandparents to try and see it from her perspective and they may be more willing to give her what she needs right now.

Another thing...this is a woman who was married to this man for quite some time or there would not be 4 children. She was his WIFE, gave him his children and probably loved him as well as she knew to love. Now she finds herself having to deal with the live in lover of the father of her children at a time when she should be given some consideration over her loss.

You say these people are making it because of your daughter and her child. Maybe what your daughter should do is begin to think about the feelings of the woman whose husband she was living with and step back a little.

It's hell loosing a child in a car accident, it's hell to loose two children. It's also hell to loose your husband and the father of your 4 children to another one. I'm willing to bet that your daughter, her companions parents or you have no idea of the hell that man's wife has lived with since the day he left her with 4 of his children.

Tell your daughter and tell these grandparents they are not the only one's who have been hurt in this situation. Maybe if they pay a little attention to the woman who gave them the majority of their grandchildren and the pain she has experienced she might let go of some of her bitterness.

In my opinion this woman doesn't owe her in-laws anything and she certainly doesn't owe your daughter the courtesy of even looking her in the face.

It always boggles my mind to hear stories of how people will virtually destroy someone's life and future the way your daughter did this lady and then sit around and wring their hands when that person responds with anger. Tell them to show some respect and defference for someone other than themselves and they might get some in return from that person.

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Yeah what she said!

Destroying someone else?

I understand what you are saying Beth but you don't have all the facts and there fore should not say my daughter destroyed her. Would it not be safe to assume that the woman and her husband were responsible for destroying their own marriage? If he was happy at home would he of looked elsewhere?
Do you not think that my daughter has a conscience and even though she developed feelings for him that she kept them to herself and encouraged him to be with his wife and babies? We all did. He worked with my husband and never wanted to go home at night, he was always showing up at our house and his wife was always calling and screaming at him and putting the children on the phone, this was before my daughter was even in the picture, she didn't even live with us. She accused me and my other daughters of sleeping with him and demanded we send him home, his mom even came here to try and convince him to come home. They had been seperated on more then one occasion and their children came one after the other the oldest is 6 the youngest 2 years. He'd had affairs before and was not happy with her but always tried to go back for the kids till he couldn't take it anymore. That isn 't my daughters fault. For two years he has been seperated and for 2 years she has tried to get him to come back and he wouldn't. She has used the children in the most horrible way and if you think her vindictive attitude is gooe for the children, think again. They love my daughter and they love their grandparents and regardless of how she feels, the children's feelings should come first. No one can say anything to me about this situation because I went through it years ago when I had 2 small sons and my daughter on the way. My husband left me for another woman and I tried to get him to come back and make it work for the children but he never would and so I divorced him. Not once did I strike out with anger toward my in-laws or anyone else except my husband. I always allowed my children to spend time with their grandparents. This vindictviness is hurting everyone and the grandparents have been understanding with her over and over again and did try and accomadate her on several occasions even after she told them to stick their unborn grandchild up their a--. Does a court understand a mother deprpiving the children of a relationship with their brother and grandparents? because a mother is bitter and teaching her children the wrong things? Is it right to demand your little children never speak one word about their brother or my daughter? what is that teaching them? Is it right to demand and control the grandparents to take down pictures of their other grandchild if they want to see their grandchildren and if they mention one word or if the kids ask and they say one thing and it gets back to her that they will never see their grandchildren again? Is that a relaxed visit with your grandchildren to be on pins and needles the whole time?
Believe me my daughter has offered to go out of the picture she has offered to back away, she has been very understanding of her feelings over and over again. So tell me, where is the justice? what is the court system doing to kids who love and want to be with their grandparents? Their oldest daughter who is 6 for the first few years of her life lived with her grandparents and occasionaly went home, so what does that tell you?
So yes, I know what this woman is going through because it happened to me and my daughter didn't grow up with a father as he never had time for her and is on his 4th marriage now. My daughter did have a heart and tried to step back and would do what ever his parents want in order for them to see their grandchildren and it is the grandparents call on how they want to handle this, but I know all about the pain not once but twice so you can't tell me anything I haven't already gone through. I just happen to think that children should be allowed to see their grandparent and short of them corrupting them they should be allowed to talk freely to them.

BethM said:

Grandparents rights aren't what they use to be and what do these people have to do to get visitation with their other 4 grandchildren?

They are probably going to have to do as their mother requests. Keep her children away from the child he had with the woman he had left her and his other children for. It's pretty simple and if the only issue at hand is the grandparents wanting to see these children they will be more than willing to accomodate this mother's request.

Their mother is probably acting vindictive and bitter because she is in a lot of pain. The man she had 4 children with chose to leave her and them to live with your daughter and have another child. She wouldn't give him a divorce because she was probably hoping her husband would come home one day. Now he is dead and so is all her hope. Situations like this can cause a person to feel a miriad of feelings. Tell these grandparents to try and see it from her perspective and they may be more willing to give her what she needs right now.

Another thing...this is a woman who was married to this man for quite some time or there would not be 4 children. She was his WIFE, gave him his children and probably loved him as well as she knew to love. Now she finds herself having to deal with the live in lover of the father of her children at a time when she should be given some consideration over her loss.

You say these people are making it because of your daughter and her child. Maybe what your daughter should do is begin to think about the feelings of the woman whose husband she was living with and step back a little.

It's hell loosing a child in a car accident, it's hell to loose two children. It's also hell to loose your husband and the father of your 4 children to another one. I'm willing to bet that your daughter, her companions parents or you have no idea of the hell that man's wife has lived with since the day he left her with 4 of his children.

Tell your daughter and tell these grandparents they are not the only one's who have been hurt in this situation. Maybe if they pay a little attention to the woman who gave them the majority of their grandchildren and the pain she has experienced she might let go of some of her bitterness.

In my opinion this woman doesn't owe her in-laws anything and she certainly doesn't owe your daughter the courtesy of even looking her in the face.

It always boggles my mind to hear stories of how people will virtually destroy someone's life and future the way your daughter did this lady and then sit around and wring their hands when that person responds with anger. Tell them to show some respect and defference for someone other than themselves and they might get some in return from that person.

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You are making excuses for your daughters behavior. A few years ago I was dating this wonderful man that I fell head over heals in love with we dated for a year and a half and I found out he was married. I was already in love with him and he told me how unhappy his marriage was and how he was only their for his children. Poor man! Yeah right I dumped his butt! I wasn't not going to be the other woman or be the one responsible for breaking up his family. Even though I did not know he was married I still feel terrible for any part I may have played in making his marriage worse. Instead of telling him to work things out with his wife your daughter should have walked away and left. She didn't and now look 5 children all get to suffer not only the pain of losing a father but the tug of war game the family is playing. Oh and come on if you can't understand why it would be hard for the wife in this picture to come to terms with everything no wonder your daughter turned out to just be a mistress

Asking about grandparents rights not slamming my daughter

No excuses are needed for my daughters behavior, all I was doing was trying to explain the situation to see how they could get rights to see their other grandchildren. My daughter suffers enough guilt over all that has happened and she is the one that will answer for it. She is a sweet and kind person and got caught like so many do. I am happy for you that you left him, that is the best thing to do and I applaud you, I have been on the receiving end of the other woman and I know what it is like but ultimatley the man is at fault, he is the one that had the family and he is the one that should of ended it before he went looking and lying, the same as if a woman was cheating on her husband. There is no excuse, but I think everyone has suffered enough to play games and I would like to see these people who lost their only other son, get to see all of their grandchildren and that is the bottom line. Didn't mean to stir up so much judgement on my daughter that wasn't the point at all and like I said, I have been in this woman's shoes, I was left with two small sons and a baby on the way so I know what it's like but my daughter would not have been just a mistress, he wanted to marry her and she told him no and at 25 years old he is dead and the turmoil continues so I pray these people get to see their grandchildren, they don't deserve to suffer anymore then they already have.

Hisbabygirl77 said:

You are making excuses for your daughters behavior. A few years ago I was dating this wonderful man that I fell head over heals in love with we dated for a year and a half and I found out he was married. I was already in love with him and he told me how unhappy his marriage was and how he was only their for his children. Poor man! Yeah right I dumped his butt! I wasn't not going to be the other woman or be the one responsible for breaking up his family. Even though I did not know he was married I still feel terrible for any part I may have played in making his marriage worse. Instead of telling him to work things out with his wife your daughter should have walked away and left. She didn't and now look 5 children all get to suffer not only the pain of losing a father but the tug of war game the family is playing. Oh and come on if you can't understand why it would be hard for the wife in this picture to come to terms with everything no wonder your daughter turned out to just be a mistress

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you are right

The way these grandparents now feel is they will just make her more hostile then she has already been for the last two years and although it breaks their heart, they are just leaving it be for the time being. They call and talk to their grandchildren and go to see them when they are allowed and are playing by those rules for now. They hope in time she will allow them to come and spend time like they use to but they feel that by getting an attorney it will only make matters worse and they don't want to put the children through that. Thank you for your input.

LdiJ said:

In general, all across the country laws regarding grandparent visitation have become more restrictive. This is due to a landmark case heard by the US Supreme Court...Troxel vs Granville. Its not that Arkansas's law has changed, but rather than case law since 2000 has narrowed how the statute can be used. It is very difficult to win a grandparent visitation lawsuit, and the are generally more expensive to fight than even a parent vs parent case.

The biggest danger that someone faces in initiating a gpv suit, is that it creates an immediate hostile relationship (to the extreme) with the parent. If the grandparent loses...then its pretty much guaranteed that they will have no hope of seeing their grandchildren again.

If grandma has already consulted with an attorney with no results, then she has most likely already recieved the most accurate answers that she can get.

Click to expand...