FastbackJon
Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Washington.
Concerning the ticket I got, I did one thing, the officer told me I was doing another thing when pulling me over, and then he cited me for a different thing! Here is what happened for me to get a negligent/agressive driving ticket for speeding and following too close.
#1 (Speeding)
Officer said: I passed him doing 80 mph in a 60.
Ticketed for: Being paced for one mile doing 80+ in a 60.
What actually happened: I accelerated away from the officer doing maybe 65-70mph, around a long wide corner on the freeway when the officer was in the center lane and I was in the left lane, with other cars all around. I slowed back down to 60mph after the corner straightened out. I was possibly over the 60mph speed limit, but not for one mile (not even the 1/4 mile requirement for pacing), and not doing 80mph. Officer sees this, then follows me for six miles before pulling me over.
#2 (Following too close)
Officer said: I was following too close. I told him I was using the two second rule. He said I should have been using the 3-5 second rule.
Ticketed for: Tailgaiting three vehicles at one to two car lengths at 70mph in an agressive and intimidating manner.
What actually happened: Just after #1 above, now in the left lane on the freeway, I was going 55mph behind one vehicle who was going 55mph, slower than all other traffic. I was 3-4 car lengths back, but not exactly tailgaiting like I was cited for. Didn't honk, flash headlights, run up behind the car, make rude gestures, or anything else that could be considered intimidating.
I would like to know if my defense stands a chance...
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Defense for #1 (Speeding)
I don't know anyone who would drive at 80+mph, a distance of four car lengths in front of a cop, for one full mile, as I was cited for. That person would have to be pretty stupid, or they just like to get tickets, to do such a thing.
The milepost that the officer said I was speeding at was milepost 285, as marked on the ticket. I was pulled over at milepost 279, as also stated on the ticket, a full six miles away.
One of the Agressive Driving Apprehension Team's four main core objectives is to reduce the instances of dangerous speeding, as stated on the Washington State Patrol website. It is one of the A.D.A.T. cop cars that pulled me over.
If I did really pass the cop doing 80mph in a 60 zone like he said, or if I did drive for one mile at 80+mph in front of the cop, as he cited me for, then don't you think that he would have pulled me over immediatly for such an action, instead of just calmly following me for another full six miles and THEN pulling me over?
Of course he would have pulled me over right away had I really been doing 20+ over. I was not driving 20+ miles per hour over the speed limit, and definitly not for one mile.
Those mileposts 285/279 on the freeway that the cop followed me at are all in city limits. At 12:35 PM (lunch time) on a holiday (Veteran's Day), the traffic is just too heavy in those city limits for anyone to drive for a long distance (such as one full mile) at 20mph over the speed limit.
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Defense for #2 (Following too close)
I was using the two second rule just as I told the cop on the audio tape. The cop said that that wasn't enough space, and that I should be using the 3-5 second rule. The 3-5 second rule, using the simple distance = rate x time equation, says that you need between 264 and 440 feet of space between your vehicle and the vehicle ahead at 60mph.
That is a totally ridiculous amount of space to keep between two vehicles on the freeway. When doing an online in a Google Search, 18 of the first 20 results (90%), when searching for "safe following distance" and "second rule", suggest to use the two second rule.
The Washington State Patrol, after I emailed them on what exactly a safe following distance was, suggested a 1.125 second following distance, or approximatly one car length for ever 10mph of speed.
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Now the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration terms "Negligent driving" (what I was cited for) as "...the commission of two or more acts that is likely to endanger another driver."
So based on that definition, it seems that the judge would only have to believe that I'm not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, of just one of these two things I was cited for, for him to dismiss the negligent driving ticket.
Sound okay?
Concerning the ticket I got, I did one thing, the officer told me I was doing another thing when pulling me over, and then he cited me for a different thing! Here is what happened for me to get a negligent/agressive driving ticket for speeding and following too close.
#1 (Speeding)
Officer said: I passed him doing 80 mph in a 60.
Ticketed for: Being paced for one mile doing 80+ in a 60.
What actually happened: I accelerated away from the officer doing maybe 65-70mph, around a long wide corner on the freeway when the officer was in the center lane and I was in the left lane, with other cars all around. I slowed back down to 60mph after the corner straightened out. I was possibly over the 60mph speed limit, but not for one mile (not even the 1/4 mile requirement for pacing), and not doing 80mph. Officer sees this, then follows me for six miles before pulling me over.
#2 (Following too close)
Officer said: I was following too close. I told him I was using the two second rule. He said I should have been using the 3-5 second rule.
Ticketed for: Tailgaiting three vehicles at one to two car lengths at 70mph in an agressive and intimidating manner.
What actually happened: Just after #1 above, now in the left lane on the freeway, I was going 55mph behind one vehicle who was going 55mph, slower than all other traffic. I was 3-4 car lengths back, but not exactly tailgaiting like I was cited for. Didn't honk, flash headlights, run up behind the car, make rude gestures, or anything else that could be considered intimidating.
I would like to know if my defense stands a chance...
************************************************************************************************************
Defense for #1 (Speeding)
I don't know anyone who would drive at 80+mph, a distance of four car lengths in front of a cop, for one full mile, as I was cited for. That person would have to be pretty stupid, or they just like to get tickets, to do such a thing.
The milepost that the officer said I was speeding at was milepost 285, as marked on the ticket. I was pulled over at milepost 279, as also stated on the ticket, a full six miles away.
One of the Agressive Driving Apprehension Team's four main core objectives is to reduce the instances of dangerous speeding, as stated on the Washington State Patrol website. It is one of the A.D.A.T. cop cars that pulled me over.
If I did really pass the cop doing 80mph in a 60 zone like he said, or if I did drive for one mile at 80+mph in front of the cop, as he cited me for, then don't you think that he would have pulled me over immediatly for such an action, instead of just calmly following me for another full six miles and THEN pulling me over?
Of course he would have pulled me over right away had I really been doing 20+ over. I was not driving 20+ miles per hour over the speed limit, and definitly not for one mile.
Those mileposts 285/279 on the freeway that the cop followed me at are all in city limits. At 12:35 PM (lunch time) on a holiday (Veteran's Day), the traffic is just too heavy in those city limits for anyone to drive for a long distance (such as one full mile) at 20mph over the speed limit.
************************************************************************************************************
Defense for #2 (Following too close)
I was using the two second rule just as I told the cop on the audio tape. The cop said that that wasn't enough space, and that I should be using the 3-5 second rule. The 3-5 second rule, using the simple distance = rate x time equation, says that you need between 264 and 440 feet of space between your vehicle and the vehicle ahead at 60mph.
That is a totally ridiculous amount of space to keep between two vehicles on the freeway. When doing an online in a Google Search, 18 of the first 20 results (90%), when searching for "safe following distance" and "second rule", suggest to use the two second rule.
The Washington State Patrol, after I emailed them on what exactly a safe following distance was, suggested a 1.125 second following distance, or approximatly one car length for ever 10mph of speed.
************************************************************************************************************
Now the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration terms "Negligent driving" (what I was cited for) as "...the commission of two or more acts that is likely to endanger another driver."
So based on that definition, it seems that the judge would only have to believe that I'm not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, of just one of these two things I was cited for, for him to dismiss the negligent driving ticket.
Sound okay?
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