vice

What is the name of your state?pa - my son was sitting in front of his friends house waiting for him to come home - friend pulls up behind him and he sees him flashing his lights - my son gets out of his car and walks over to his friends car - next thing he knows there is a policeman there telling him to empty his pockets - he has 2 1/2 ounces of pot on him - we get called from him to come to police station - and to bring his brother with us - we go there and his file is sitting on the desk - policeman proceeds to tell us that he gave them a name and my other son is ther eto verify this name because he had lived with him for a while - he is told to contact the vice squad within the next few days and things will procees from there - i am told that my sons file can sit on this mans desk for up to 2 years - my son was not arrested - processed - nothing - car was not impounded - nothing was done at all - i find this all very strange and i am wondering what is going on - so my friends are saying to me that he needs to get a lawyer and not to talk to vice until they hvae a lawyer present - how could he get picked up with that much and be let go with nothing - what is going on here - last night im sitting in my living room and a police car goes by real slow to the point that i thought he was going to stop - he pulls into a parking place across the street and just sits there - does anyone out there of any ideas as to what could be happening- the policeman said that hopefully with my sons cooperation the charge could be dropped to a misdemenor - he was sitting on the bench when i got to the station - anyone have any thoughts on this situation - he has not been in trouble before - thanks

Are you familiar with federal drug laws?

Let's talk theoretically for a moment...

Assume Joe buys a pound of marijuana from Jon, who is a major drug dealer. This person buys from Jon on a regular basis. Jon gets his drugs from an even BIGGER drug dealer named Juan Pablo who deals in all varieties of drugs.

One day Juan Pablo gets busted by the feds who tell him, "Make this easier on yourself pacco - if you give us your contacts it will greatly reduce your time." So, JP gives up a hundred names. The feds round up all hundred people given up by JP and have the same conversation with each of them.

This is what is known as a drug conspiracy and each of the people given up are co-conspirators. ANY of the co-conspirators can take responsibility for the ENTIRE magnitude of the conspiracy. Those who don't cooperate by bringing in further co-conspirators receive no relief from the harsh penalties. If Joe doesn't know anyone to give up he could easily - EASILY - find himself in prison for 20 or 30 years. Believe me, I know first hand.

Go to google.com and do a search on 841(a) - it will bring up a number of hits that will include the federal drug statutes. Look at the penalties. Then do a google search on federal drug conspiracy and do some research there.

Then do your son a very big favor and find a GOOD attorney who specializes in federal drug cases. Go visit that attorney and bring him up to speed on your situation. It is best to have your ducks in a row IN CASE something does grow from this. Most federal drug cases take more than a year to build and often the suspects are free to live their lives during this time all the while under the watchful eyes of investigators.

Check the recent suprene court rulings on this subject.

so let me ask another ? from the last reply - we are talking about 1 name - and my other son who had nothing do to with this was brought in because the other said my brother can verify what i am telling you because this kid lived with him for a bit - you are saying that my oldest who had nothing to do with this can also be in trouble - are we to contact a lawyer before we call the vice squad????or are they to call this week like the police said and talk to them - so my son that got busted needs to keep away from all these people who he was friends with right????he should go to work and come home period!!!!i will check out those other sites you told me to - is it possible that they would tap our phones and do stuff like that - is he considered just someone small right - from the situation i described do you think that maybe it was his friend that gave him up to begin with????thanks for your reply

and anoth thing - my son was in the national guard and got discharged for that code 841e - he received a uncharatized discharge - will this also go against him - and at this time he is not allowed to leave this are correct?thanks again for your help

cin0405 said:

so let me ask another ? from the last reply - we are talking about 1 name - and my other son who had nothing do to with this was brought in because the other said my brother can verify what i am telling you because this kid lived with him for a bit - you are saying that my oldest who had nothing to do with this can also be in trouble - are we to contact a lawyer before we call the vice squad????or are they to call this week like the police said and talk to them - so my son that got busted needs to keep away from all these people who he was friends with right????he should go to work and come home period!!!!i will check out those other sites you told me to - is it possible that they would tap our phones and do stuff like that - is he considered just someone small right - from the situation i described do you think that maybe it was his friend that gave him up to begin with????thanks for your reply

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I don't really care to know all the particulars - to be honest with you I doubt very seriously that you know the truth about everything. Look, your son was in possession of drugs. He violated the law. Something will more than likely come from this. All I'm saying is that it is best to KNOW about what your worst case scenario could be and work backward from there. This will allow you to see the potential significance of each event as things progress. The thing about drugs is there never is only one person. It can always be linked back to someone who is involved with many others.

SeniorJudge is correct in advising you to read the cases this week of the Supreme Court. These cases now make it necessary for federal prosecutors to charge in an indictment the type and quantity of drugs for which a federal defendant may be held responsible and to then prove those facts to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt.

More than likely the case will NOT go federal. I'm just advising you to know what COULD happen and to be prepared for the worst case scenario. I would recommend talking with an attorney. Make sure it is one with good references though...

could he go to jail from this or just be on probation - i mean is there a chance of that - i do have a lawyer for him to contact tomorrow - do you know if the release from the guard will have any influence over this - you just seem to know alot about these things - i mean could you just give me a worst case-best case scenerio - and could you let me know if i should tell me oldest son just to stay out of this and let the one who got into trouble deal with the things going on - i know it would just be your opinion but sometimes its just good to hear that

Question

How would a case go from being a state charge to a federal charge? Please give me some scenarios.

I agree - so far this looks like a state level crime, so federal procedures and statutes are largely irrelevant.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

I agree - so far this looks like a state level crime, so federal procedures and statutes are largely irrelevant.

- Carl

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Well, I don't know how much experience you have with state vs. federal jurisdiction, but there are any number of reasons the feds could become interested.

As I stated. I doubt this case would be picked up by the feds, but as long as there is an open investigation it CERTAINLY is a possibility. What I was stating is that I have seen many times when a defendant actually beat state charges only to have the feds pick them up. Double jeopardy you say? Yes, well that argument fell on deaf ears. Trust me. I have a lot of first hand experience in this and have seen the many possible things that can happen.

All I'm saying is that there has clearly been a law broken. Now, 2 1/2 ounces of pot is not much; however, I would still talk to an attorney. I'm not saying your son is going to get 20 or 30 years in prison. What I am saying is that you need to research this as well as talk to a good attorney so that you know what your worst case scenario would potentially be.

The people who end up in prison for extensive periods who didn't play a major role in a drug conspiracy are often those who were the most ignorant going into the system. The more you can learn the better off you will be in the long term.

Also, pray that he learns a lessen from this as the system is much harder on repeat offenders...

TMBrown2004 said:

Well, I don't know how much experience you have with state vs. federal jurisdiction, but there are any number of reasons the feds could become interested.

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Quite a bit, actually.

I doubt this case would be picked up by the feds, but as long as there is an open investigation it CERTAINLY is a possibility.

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Unless he was a key lynchpin in a much, much larger operation (importation or a huge grow), the feds would hang up the phone once I said how much he had been in possession of.

What I was stating is that I have seen many times when a defendant actually beat state charges only to have the feds pick them up. Double jeopardy you say? Yes, well that argument fell on deaf ears.

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Occasionally it happens for big cases, and you're right - it is NOT double jeopardy. I know of a handful of L.A. cops that suffered the same issue.

Now, 2 1/2 ounces of pot is not much; however, I would still talk to an attorney.

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Agreed. He needs the attorney.

Also, pray that he learns a lessen from this as the system is much harder on repeat offenders...

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Ditto.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

Unless he was a key lynchpin in a much, much larger operation (importation or a huge grow), the feds would hang up the phone once I said how much he had been in possession of.
- Carl

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Ok. Let's say the son purchased the 2 1/2 ounces from Juan Pablo and Juan Pablo got busted by the Feds. Juan Pablo was found to be a major kingpin from Colombia. Juan Pablo gave a list of 20 people in order to save his own butt, and informed the feds that they had sold 2 1/2 ounces to the son every other day for the past nine months. Suddenly it's a different picture all together, nes ce pas?

I'm just saying that as long as there is an open investigation you never know WHAT might happen. This scenario is one I've seen many times over...

And just WHAT are the odds of a kid happening to be the direct link to some sort of big kingpin? Probably less than my winning the lottery when I don't even play it.

Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that aliens will land in my backyard and give me the keys to the galaxy.

Definitely, he needs a lawyer. But the odds of a fed EVER knocking at his door are pretty slim.

And having worked with drug task forces for just a few years, I do have some teensy-weensy idea of what makes them tick.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

And just WHAT are the odds of a kid happening to be the direct link to some sort of big kingpin? Probably less than my winning the lottery when I don't even play it.

Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that aliens will land in my backyard and give me the keys to the galaxy.

Definitely, he needs a lawyer. But the odds of a fed EVER knocking at his door are pretty slim.

And having worked with drug task forces for just a few years, I do have some teensy-weensy idea of what makes them tick.

- Carl

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Carl, if you do get the keys to the galaxy. You gonna let us see 'em?

CdwJava said:

And just WHAT are the odds of a kid happening to be the direct link to some sort of big kingpin? Probably less than my winning the lottery when I don't even play it.

Is it possible? Sure. It's also possible that aliens will land in my backyard and give me the keys to the galaxy.

Definitely, he needs a lawyer. But the odds of a fed EVER knocking at his door are pretty slim.

And having worked with drug task forces for just a few years, I do have some teensy-weensy idea of what makes them tick.

- Carl

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Well, unfortunately there are a lot of young men sitting in federal prison who only sold drugs for a short period of time. Many of them never dreamed they would gain the attention of the federal government. Perhaps you haven't had any contact with those living the reality of that situation. I have. I've met them, read their cases, learned their stories, and I can tell you - there aren't 125,000 kingpins in prison. Granted, the large majority of drug cases don't turn into conspiracy cases - particularly post 9/11 when the edict has shifted away from the war on drugs - but I'd place the odds of the possibility on a much higher level than your ET experience...

I still say that he's best able to prepare if he knows the full potential of what could happen. Did you see any of the documentaries done about the horror stories within the federal system? One father even mortgaged his house and went out to try to locate drug dealers to snitch on so he could try to get time off of his son's 20 year sentence. His son had purchased small quantities of drugs and had been pulled into a conspiracy. I'm telling you - it happens.