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Ironpony

Junior Member
I live in Florida.
If I were to go to Amsterdam on vaction and smoke a joint there where it's legal, can that be held against me in the US? If I were to get a drug test at work can they use that against me if I show I smoked in Amsterdam where it's legal? Do US laws supercede ALL other countries? Do US laws apply to other countries?
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Ironpony said:
I live in Florida.
If I were to go to Amsterdam on vaction and smoke a joint there where it's legal, can that be held against me in the US? If I were to get a drug test at work can they use that against me if I show I smoked in Amsterdam where it's legal? Do US laws supercede ALL other countries? Do US laws apply to other countries?
Of course not - US laws do NOT apply to other countries. :rolleyes:

However, if you were to come back and test dirty here for an employer or any other reason, the presumption WILL be that you smoked it here. Plus, an employer's prohibition from smoking dope can be absolute - you smoke it, you're fired. Legal in The Netherlands or not, they CAN make that policy.

And if you're on Probation, that WILL result in a violation as I don't believe terms of probation specify that you will not smoke dope in the US but that you shall abstain altogether.

But, if you have the money to hire lawyers to fight this sort of thing, knock yourself out.

The easy solution is to not smoke it.

- Carl
 

Ironpony

Junior Member
Well that makes no sense at all. No i'm not on probation. What right does an employer have to say what i can do legally? I noticed in your sig you are a law enforcement officer, i'm not sure you can give unbiased opinions. What exactly do see wrong with pot if you don't mind my asking? Do you even know why it is illegal?...(the real reason) If i told you something that went against what you do, even if i am right, will you believe me?... probably not.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Ironpony said:
Well that makes no sense at all.
Sure it does.

POLICY: "If your test results come back with evidence of a controlled substance, you may be terminated."

TEST RESULTS: "Positive for marijuana"

EMPLOYER REACTION: Pink slip


No i'm not on probation.
Good.


What right does an employer have to say what i can do legally?
It depends on your state's laws. If they can lawfully have a drug testing policy (which is what you asked about, by the way) then your testing positive can result in your dismissal.


I noticed in your sig you are a law enforcement officer, i'm not sure you can give unbiased opinions.
My opinions have been biased for and against many things all my life ... I wasn't raised in a little blue pod and hatched to be a police officer.


What exactly do see wrong with pot if you don't mind my asking?
You didn't ask that question originally, and it has absolutely no bearing on your inquiry. The fact of the matter is that it is generally illegal, and that an employer can usually terminate or discipline an employee who tests positive.

In fact, this came up in CA some years back when officers attended a conference in Jamaica ... one apparently smoked some weed there and then later tested dirty for his agency after he returned. he tried to make the argument that it was done legally in another country. Ultimately, his dismissal was upheld because the agency policy forbade the smoking of marijuana or any controlled substance (as defined under US law).

But, that's CA law. FL's may differ.


Do you even know why it is illegal?...(the real reason)
Yes, I do. And, frankly, I don't care - at least not here. the fact is that it IS illegal. If you want to discuss whether it should be or not, take it to another forum.


If i told you something that went against what you do, even if i am right, will you believe me?... probably not.
It depends on what you had to say. I might, or I might not. If you told me that smoking marijuana makes you a better driver, I wouldn't believe you. But, again, it has nothing to do with your inquiry.

If you posted this question just to open a debate on the legality of marijuana, take it to another board.

EDIT:

Here is a summary of Florida laws on the subject of Employer Drug Testing:

DRUG FREE WORKPLACE POLICY:

§112.0455 (1996)
The Drug Free Workplace Act provides that any state agency may test certain employees and job applicants for the use of drugs. Does not require testing but mandates that any agency choosing to do so must comply with methods and procedures outlined.

§287.087
Provides that in situations where two or more bids of equal merit are submitted the business certifying it has implemented a Drug-Free Workplace program will be given preference in being awarded the contract.


DRUG TESTING REGULATIONS:

None Listed

WORKERS COMPENSATION:

§440.102 (1996)
Voluntary law that provides a 5 percent reduction in premiums to employers who implement and maintain a certified drug-free workplace program in accordance with the standards set forth in the Act.
Positive drug test results disqualifies an employee from receiving benefits.


UNEMPLOYMENT INSURANCE

§440.102 (1993)
An employee may be denied benefits if tested positive for drugs on a test conducted in accordance with the standards set forth under worker's compensation laws. A positive drug test constitutes misconduct.

§38B-2.017(5)(b) (1993)
Consideration is given to the illnesses of alcoholism and drug addiction in determining eligibility.



- Carl
 
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listen to carl. this law has been up held in every state in the union, it doesn't matter when or where you did the drugs all that matters is you test positive for drug use. ask yourself if smoking dope is worth the risk of being fired and having that follow you around to every job interview, trust me it will make finding a new job after being fired for smoking dope.
 

Ironpony

Junior Member
Thx for the info. Didn't mean to come off in the wrong way. It's hard to say things online without having voice inflictions and all. :( I guess i'm just getting older and look at things differently than i did as a youngster. It makes no sense to me that anyone can be punished for something that doesn't effect their work or break any laws. I see cops arresting people for possession of simple pot and wondering why we as Americans stand for the deception. I live in Florida and pot laws here are horrible. People get more time for a joint that they get for murder. That's just wrong. :mad:

BTW I am retired and don't have to worry about that at all. I am asking cuz my friend who is still working is going to Amsterdam on his vacation and he and I were talking about it. He has never smoked pot before and wanted to try it but not in the US where he can be arrested for it. :D
 
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CdwJava

Senior Member
Ironpony said:
It makes no sense to me that anyone can be punished for something that doesn't effect their work or break any laws.
Marijuana does have an effect on someone's ability to work and it is against the law. People can get fired for coming to work under the influence of alcohol as well.


I see cops arresting people for possession of simple pot and wondering why we as Americans stand for the deception.
What deception? It's illegal. No deception there. If the people don't like it, there is a ballot box.


I live in Florida and pot laws here are horrible. People get more time for a joint that they get for murder. That's just wrong.
If that really happened, I would agree with you. But I hear that exaggerated claim all the time - it doesn't happen. A joint does not get more time than murder.



- carl
 
Ironpony said:
I live in Florida and pot laws here are horrible.
I just spent a few minutes looking through the Florida pot laws, and for the life of me, I cannot find a horrible one among them.
 

Ironpony

Junior Member
Yes, I do. And, frankly, I don't care - at least not here. the fact is that it IS illegal. If you want to discuss whether it should be or not, take it to another forum.
Spoken like a true cop. Sounds kinda Gestapo like to me. :eek: (I don't care if it is a person...we have to kill them...it's the law.)

I guess being told what to believe and what to do without using common sense or humanity is part of the police code. There is a difference between right and wrong, it's what you do and why you do it. All things are NOT black and white....grey pervails over most. This will probably get me thrown out of here but that's ok.

Marijuana does have an effect on someone's ability to work and it is against the law. People can get fired for coming to work under the influence of alcohol as well.
Smoking 1 joint 2 weeks ago isn't going to effect your work today. Get real.
 

HomeGuru

Senior Member
Ironpony said:
All things are NOT black and white....grey pervails over most. This will probably get me thrown out of here but that's ok.

Smoking 1 joint 2 weeks ago isn't going to effect your work today. Get real.
**A: and seaking of grey, that grey matter between your ears has really been affected by those joints.
 

Ironpony

Junior Member
I do not nor have I ever smoked pot. My grey matter is unimpaired by drugs or propaganda. :p I stop and look at things with an open mind and common sense. Just because some Billionaire wants pot illegal so they can control the market doesn't appear to be reason enough for me to follow them. Think for yourself and make logical decisions.
 
Ironpony said:
I do not nor have I ever smoked pot. My grey matter is unimpaired by drugs or propaganda. :p I stop and look at things with an open mind and common sense. Just because some Billionaire wants pot illegal so they can control the market doesn't appear to be reason enough for me to follow them. Think for yourself and make logical decisions.
Not only do I find it distasteful; I wholeheartedly disagree with the entire concept of having to go downtown, enter a government building, during business hours, ask for, seek, apply for, and hope to receive permission, via the paper permit, after paying the appropriate fee, to be informed that I now can cut a tree down on property that I own in its entirety outright.

In my capacity as a self-thinker I can still vehemently disagree with the concept - and the law - and should I chose to cut this tree down without the required permit, I would still be liable to the law that I disagree with so vehemently.


Sustitute your argument about pot with mine about over-burdening governmental interference with private property ownership rights, and you will find that our arguments are the same.

Should either of us act in opposition to what we are in opposition of - would still not dispose of the law that we are in opposition of. Purely because it is the law, whether we like it, or believe it should not be so.

Yet I still maintain that I still am a free thinker, make logical decisions, based on common sense; even though there appears reason enough for me not to follow the law.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
Ironpony said:
Spoken like a true cop. Sounds kinda Gestapo like to me. :eek: (I don't care if it is a person...we have to kill them...it's the law.)
Ah, yes - the "N a z i" comparison ... the last bastion of the individual without an argument.

As I said, this site is NOT about opinions on the why or why not for the law, but for advice regarding the law as it exists. There are plenty of other forums to complain about the existance of marijuana laws.

My opinions on marijuana are irrelevent to the law as it stands.


I guess being told what to believe and what to do without using common sense or humanity is part of the police code.
What? I can believe what I want. What I can't do is make up the law as I go - and neither can anyone else. I can't decide that I won't enforce the law because I disagree with it. And if I were to feel that strongly about a law, I can either act to change it or I could quit.


There is a difference between right and wrong, it's what you do and why you do it.
Of course.


All things are NOT black and white....grey pervails over most. This will probably get me thrown out of here but that's ok.
Many things ARE black and white. Some are grey. One's opinion on marijuana is a grey ... one's obligation to obey the law is a black and white issue. Don't like the law - change it.


Smoking 1 joint 2 weeks ago isn't going to effect your work today. Get real.
I never said that. But your question had to do with the law, not with being under the influence OR anyone's opinion on the subject.

And, as I said, I'm not going to get into that particular debate.

You asked, I answered. You don't like the answer and the law, then change the law.

- Carl
 
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sungod916

Member
Ironpony,

Is this the answer you're looking for?
It breaks down like this, ok. It's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a hash farm, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, but, but, but that doesn't matter, because, get a load of this. If you get stopped by a cop in Amsterdam, it's illegal for them to search you. I mean that's a right the cops in Amsterdam don't have.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
sungod916 said:
Ironpony,

Is this the answer you're looking for?
It breaks down like this, ok. It's legal to buy it, it's legal to own it, and if you're the proprietor of a hash farm, it's legal to sell it. It's legal to carry it, but, but, but that doesn't matter, because, get a load of this. If you get stopped by a cop in Amsterdam, it's illegal for them to search you. I mean that's a right the cops in Amsterdam don't have.
Uh ... do you have a source for that claim? I regularly communicate with officers from around the world on a number of law enforcement lists - including officers from The Netherlands, and I have NEVER heard that.

The USA has among the most stringent search requirements in the world. The "right" to privacy and being free from search is not one that is engrained into the legal systems of most other countries - including those in Europe.

I think you are mistaken about their not being allowed to search. They probably have limitations similar to what we do, but I believe they have broader discretion in personal and property searches than we do in the USA.

- carl
 

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