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What would you do if Neighbors "hate you"?

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K9Protector

Junior Member
HOA and Neighbors are putting my kids at risk (Fence not allowed by board)

What is the name of your state?Missouri
:(

Note All other Threads have been closed relating to this matter....

We moved to our home in Dec. 2002. We had our first HOA meeting in Jan 2003. Since we have children, pets, etc., we wanted to erect a fence in the rear of our property (especially along the high-speed road behind our home). We had researched our restrictions prior to purchasing the home, we knew that a small fence already existed on our property and that other fences were present in our neighborhood. At this meeting, we asked what exactly needed to be done to erect a fence on our property. The Board and remaining neighbors basically said at this meeting that they would not allow us to erect a fence on our property.. The neighbors were adamant about not having a fence on our property even at this first meeting (puzzling since other fences existed in our small neighborhood). I got very emotional since all I wanted was to protect my kids, not divide our neighborhood.

I presented a written proposal to Board and it was rejected based on opinion (& not requirements in restriction).... We approached a lawyer to see if we had interpreted the restrictions incorrectly... He said no and he quickly wrote them a letter. This escalated into a lawyer versus lawyer confrontation, although their lawyer did not respond but threatened if we erected a fence they would sue us. We made mistakes along the way by listening to our lawyer.

Since a fence existed on our property prior to our ownership, our lawyer told us we had a right to reinstall this fence since it was taken down by the City during a street widening project (NOTE: our property backs to major street)... It was to be replaced but wasn't, per an agreement we find with the prior owners and the city.

The City agreed to reinstalled the fence (we paid half).... The HOA took us to court, we lost, we took down fence, and paid all lawyers fees. After considering appealing this decision and taking a step back, we decided that our lawyer was incorrect in his recommendations.

It was brought up at the court case that we did not submit more than one plan, thus after the court decision, we submitted over 50 proposals to HOA and even asked for them to put together a proposal that they would find acceptable.... All rejected. :(

The adjoining neighbor (whom is on Board) has verbally harassed me on several occasions (very careful not to come onto our property). She has flat out told me that they will not work with us, and they want us to move.

Also, we have had vandalism on our property. We have had hedges on our property destroyed, paint balls shot at our home, our Christmas Displays tampered with, our 500 lb dog kennel moved off of our property. We have been flipped off by our neighbors, we have been shunned and not invited or told of street gatherings, my young cat died mysteriously (poison?), neighbor dogs are allowed to wander the neighborhood. They enter our yard and have even caused problems with our dogs and me. Our neighbor allows their dog to use our yard as restroom (while on a leash)... I feel like a bad neighbor since I have had to call and have these neighbors spoke to by the police and by animal control. In a neigbhorhood of 8 homes, we feel like the outcasts and our treated like dirt. (We do not play loud music, we keep our kids under control, we do not allow guns or illegal activity, we contribute to the community and even hold elected positions within the community).

Obviously moving would be an easy out but I would prefer not moving. Plus due to our community involvement, moving is not simple.... and the easy thing to do is just ignore them, but that does not solve the problem with protecting my children.

Do you see any remedy in getting a fence or some protection along the busy road to the rear of our property (without blowing my bank account again on a legal action)? Is there any support agencies or other pro-bono representation in matters such as this, especially for our children?

I feel threatened by our neighbors and fear that they may do more than verbally harass us.

Also, do our children have any rights to make their backyard a safe environment since we have tried and our HOA and neighbors will not listen? One of these days, more than our cat will be killed. :mad:

One note: Since moving to our neighborhood, the HOA has "superseded" our original and amended restrictions to better say no to us... We voted no on these new restrictions, since they did not seem to be looking at how this could affect all people living in our neighborhood... Other new or modified restrictions also were poorly worded.... There are also court cases showing that additional burdens in restrictions must be unanimous votes... not just a majority (Note we were the only home to say no, however, the day of the vote over 50 percent of the homes sent proxy votes, thus no changes could occur.... Although I do not think this would have mattered). These new restrictions were filed in the county records to override all previous restrictions for our neighborhood.

I am open for help and would be happy to fill in any blanks that I left out..... you can email me directly at [email protected]

Thanks!
:confused:
 
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Shel77

Member
So the CC&R states that the Board has the right to approve or disapprove your fence? You said that "it was rejected based on opinion (& not requirements in restriction)" does it say that if you are putting up a certain kind of fence that you don't need the boards approval? Or does it say all fences even if they fall within the guidelines must still be approved? If the board has to approve your fence and they say no I would think that would mean NO. I hope someone can give you some further advice, but since you seem to have already taken legal action and you still have no fence, I would think there is not much more you can do.
 

K9Protector

Junior Member
Here is the exact wording per our original restrictions...

"No building shall be erected, placed or altered on any lot until the construction plans and specifications, and the plans showing the location of a structure have been approved by the Board of Trustess as to quality of workmanship and materials, harmony of exterior design with existing structures, and as to location with respect to topography and finished grade elevation. No fence or wall shall be erected, placed or altered on any lot unless similarly approved and no fence or wall shall be erected, placed or altered on any lot nearer toa ny street than the minimum building set-back line, as shown on the recordered Plat, unless similarly approved." Our original restrictions also refer to fencing in horses. The 1st amended restriction from 1988, refer to fencing in swimming pools..... "All swimming pools shall be enclosed with a fence sufficient to preclude entry by unsupervised children." We also offered to install a pool, however, they said no.

We believe that we have followed our restrictions and that they are solely saying no for spite and to get us to move. I realize that the board can have it's opinion, however, when rules are broken within the subdivision by any other homeowner, they overlook these facts.

All we want to do is have a safe and protective barrier between our home and the busy road behind our home.... The only other neighbor whom abuts this road has an 6-8' retaining wall running along this road.

You stated that we should have looked into this before buying.... I thought we had since we read the restrictions & followed them to the letter. We also knew prior to buying this home that a privacy fence was already on this property along the patio, that a fence existed at the rear of the property for many years and was to be replaced but for some reason was not replaced. We also observed other fences in the neighborhood around pools and privacy style fences.... We knew we had guidelines to follow and that is what we have done.

Also, you stated: "I hope someone can give you some further advice, but since you seem to have already taken legal action and you still have no fence, I would think there is not much more you can do." We did not take legal action, they took it against us to have an injunction order placed against us to remove the fence along the road that we reconstructed with the city. Also note that the Judge in the case had clearly made up his mind prior to hearing any testimony (partly we believe since one of our neighbors is part of the judicial system.) We do not disbute that we followed ill advice from our lawyer at the time about reinstalling a pre-existing fence, and we payed the consequence.

What rights do I have or our children have as far as protection from the busy road and harassing neighbors? I know life is not always fair, but I am looking for justice and believe that I still live in somewhat of a free country. HOA take away those rights to a point, but there has to be some action taken to stop the injustices that HOA impose on people and just because their opinion differs from their neighbors, as long as people live within the law, HOA should also.

Ok, now I will get off my soap box and await input!
 

Shel77

Member
Do you know if the other fences you spoke of were approved by the board or not? If not are they just not making them take their fences down?? I agree with you that you should be able to have A fence not any type of fencing you want but they should have to allow you some fence that they think looks ok in your neighboorhood. Is their any major difference in your lot vs. the lots that currently have fences up?
 

K9Protector

Junior Member
The HOA did not exist or function for many years... I would say probably 10 years, but we did not live here at that time..... I really do not know when the other fences were put up, nor if they received approval.... I believe that this question was posed to them. Also, copies of minutes from prior meetings were asked to be made available, but without any response, just that they did not have any minutes.

Would the HOA trustees make the homeowners with fences take theirs down too? NO, because some of the fences exist on current Trustees properties. Also in our restrictions, it says that if you install something prior to an injuntion being granted then that something gets to stay (although that point was brought up at our court case and our fence was completed before the injunction was granted, however, the judge did not care.)

You asked if there is any major difference in our lot vs. the lots that currently have fences up..... All of the homes in the subdivision are approx 1/2 acre.... there are 2 homes that back to the busy street (ours and our neighbor with the retaining wall), the other homes with fences either back woods or a church common ground area. The 2 homes with enclosed fencing have pools. One of these homes also has a section of privacy fence along the back of their property. We have a section of Privacy fencing along our patio. I have not entered our neighbors backyards, thus I do not know if there are any major differences or if additional barriers exist. We live in a relatively flat (level) ground area.

Thanks for your input thus far.
 
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Shel77

Member
The reason I asked about the lots is to see if you would be blocking someone else’s view of a lake or forest area by erecting a fence. As far as permission given to the other HO's who have fences I would think that would be something, you said theirs were up prior to the injunction but so was yours. I know boards can get out of hand but they have to play fair if you don't get a fence no one else gets a fence! Get a better attorney and fight this, IMHO I think you will get somewhere these people don't sound like they will be able to back up their decisions in front of a judge nor a sit down between attorneys for that matter. If you really want to stay in your home and not move to a home that gives you more freedom to do what you want with your property and you feel that you must have a fence, you are going to have to take them on. So what if it pisses them off, I think they already don't like you so at least you will have your fence in the end, Hopefully that is. Good Luck. ;)
 

K9Protector

Junior Member
The only neighbor whom would directly see a fence from their window is our biggest harasser. There are no lakes and all fences that we have suggested are not privacy style fences. They stated that they want to be able to walk freely from property to property.

As you know, HOA's can be their own "gods" and thus make their own rules.... and I can not emotionally (and financially) afford another legal fight. I also do not think a legal battle would be equal, as I felt it was not before.... We had gotten another lawyer to send them a letter asking to sit down (lawyers could be present) and try to work out something but they refuse.

I have wrote them several letters.... One stating that I was sorry for putting up the fence without their permission... Many others stating that I am merely trying to protect my kids and pets and that a fence is not to keep them out...

I wondered if there was something in essense that my children could do or file on their behalf..... I would think that our children have some rights to a safe play area.

It is nearly impossible to fight an HOA and there are so few laws regulating their existance.... (this is something I think needs to be changed.... There are many good reasons for restrictions and rules, however, as with anything, when opinions get involved and people take sides without following the rules that are in place, someone has to loose... in our case it is us.)
 

Shel77

Member
"They stated that they want to be able to walk freely from property to property."
If your fence is on your property how will that stop them, they certainly are not allowed to walk on your property now even though you don't have a fence and wouldn't the other fences that are allowed in your neighborhood block people from walking freely on everyone elses land?
 

K9Protector

Junior Member
The fact that there are other fences in our neighborhood does not matter to them.... Yes it is true that the fence would be completely on our property... I am not sure why they stated that they want to walk freely around the neighborhood.... I really do not see people walking in each others yards.... Basically everything they said in their rejections to us (which they just copied each time and never changed the wording even though we addressed their concerns by not having the fence completely around the property in the rear) was just because we wanted a fence and that they flat out told us that they want us to move.....

I do not want to sound that we are perfect, but our kids play quietly, our dogs are not allowed outside to bark all day (as soon as they bark to come in when we are home I immediately let them in), the toys in our yard are a playset, a trampoline and a sand box... I have never yelled at them, we are legal-abinding individuals, we contribute countless hours to charity and community service groups...... However, obviously they hate us and the only thing I can point that fact to is that after their first rejection, we approached a lawyer to see if we had interpreted our restrictions incorectly... He said no and he contacted them to state that their reasons for rejection were not justified per the restrictions. He also told us to reinstall a fence along the back of our property that had existed prior to our purchasing the home... We did that and the HOA took us to court.... Even though the City whom took down the fence paid half of the cost to reinstall it since they should have done it years prior, the judge ruled that we attempted to deceive our HOA. This really hurt me and my family since we consider ourselves a Christian family and not deceitful...

I have never been treated so poorly (and the entire neighborhood shuns us or despises us... although we had heard that some neighbors have spread untruths about us).... Yesterday, our neighbor was out raking gumballs back in our yard from her yard.... I had just cleaned my yard the day prior by raking and bagging gumballs and mulching leaves and gumballs... Our yard looked good... then as I was leaving yesterday I saw our neighbor raking the gumballs from her yard back into my yard... now normally I wouldn't mind since the gumball tree is on our property and the branches spread over into her yard, but because of everything else, it's just another way to spite us.


I appreciate everyone's help.....
 
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Lagwagon Lyrics - Stokin the Neighbors

Friday night's the perfect night to mow some neighbor's lawn,
And Dave is drunk and at the helm before too long.
And Chris will gladly ride shotgun, 'cause navigating seems like fun,
Drunk and out of gas, they drive around and crash.
They're driving through your yard, there's nothing you can do,
Dave's behind the wheel, and he's had more than just a few.
Suburban families slumber in civility,
Awakened to the sights and sounds of the yard they're blowing down in
their
death machine.
Drive, drive, drive, drive, drive, drive...
Dave's a midnight landscaper, and he's working overtime,
And he is full throttle--full throttle tonight. (Alright!)
He was almost home, just one more block, he had to hit that last
mailbox,
Dumped it in a ditch, ain't that a bitch? (Stoking the neighbors!)
Came time to run, came time to bail,
He was having too much fun to spend the night in jail.
He had no "Triple A" for a tow truck,
Called them anyway: Goleta, hear them say, "Hey pal, you're ****ed!"
Dave's a decent guy, like most of us, until he drinks,
And then his liquid mind takes over how he thinks.
And then all that matters is having fun, pulling off the next beer run,
On one too many nights, the party's over.
He's driving through your yard, there's nothing you can do,
Dave's behind the wheel, and he's had more than one or two.
Suburban families slumber in civility,
Awakened to the aftermath: the neighbors have been stoked...
 

Shel77

Member
Very good Question K9 Does anyone other than DJ know why he is here or what purpose he serves? He has just started doing this it seems last week I am not sure if maybe he has another name that he goes by in which he offers something useful. Well what can you do 'some peoples children' :rolleyes:
 
Misunderstood


When you're back in your old neighborhood
The cigarettes taste so good
But you're so misunderstood
You're so misunderstood

There's something there that you can't find
You look honest when you're telling a lie
You hurt her but you don't know why
You love her but you don't know why

Short on long term goals
There's a party there that we ought to go to
If you still love rock and roll
You still love rock and roll?

It's only a quarter to three
Reflecting off of your CD
You're looking at a picture of me
You're staring at a picture of me

Take the guitar player for a ride
'Cause he ain't never been satisfied
He thinks he owes some kind of debt
It'll be years before he gets over it

There's a fortune inside your head
When all you touch turns to lead
You think you might just crawl back in bed
With the fortune inside your head

I know you're just a mama's boy
You're positively unemployed
So misunderstood
So misunderstood

I know you've got a god-shaped hole
You're bleeding out your heart full of soul
You're so misunderstood
You're so misunderstood
You're so misunderstood
You're so misunderstood

I'd like to thank you all for nothing
I'd like to thank you all for nothing at all
I'd like to thank you all for nothing
Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing at all
Nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing at all


Wilco
 

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