How do you think a judge will rule on this?

djworza · Mar 18, 2005

Wisconsin

Here's my case coming up next Wednesday (23rd)

I have 2 boys, the oldest one lived with me and the other lived with the ex. I have, for the past 10 years, faithfully been paying $435 per month based on my having a higher income and each having one child. The one living with me graduated in May 2003 at the age of 18 and went into the Air Force. My ex did nothing to modify her support at that time. I re-married last June and bought a new house in November 2004. December 2004 my ex decides she wants more support for the younger boy who turns 18 in August and will be in college by then. She hires an attorney and they file a motion requesting $1405 per month (based on my income) and also wants back support to the date she filed her motion. (4 months worth equalling $3882) They want to settle out of court but I am not sure if I should as I don't know how the judge will rule. First, I know that the judge doesn't always award the back support (I got that from my case worker at the CSA) Second, I have established my budget and house purchase on the fact that it appeared that she was just going to let the support stay at $435 per mo. until the younger one turned 18. And third, I gave the younger one a car and other gifts which total around $9000. If he awards what they are asking based on the State of WI formula I may loose the house. My attorney and I are arguing that she is just doing this out of spite as I am happily re-married and we are asking that the judge not award her the huge sum she is requesting. The CSA said they never had a case quite like this one and really don't have any idea how it may go. Thoughts??

MominNJ · Mar 18, 2005

So, are you saying that you were actually paying the difference based on your higher income because you each had a child living with you?
If that's the case, then it would make sense that since the child with you is gone, the amount of support would change.
This is the only way I see that she has grounds to increase the support unless your income is MUCH higher now.

djworza · Mar 18, 2005

You understand correctly. I am not saying she doesn't have grounds to ask for more or that it shouldn't change but I am saying that she shouldn't get almost $1,000 more for only a few more months. My income is substantially higher than it was 10 years ago when we had the original $435 figure arrived at. $1,405 would force me to take out a loan or sell the house. Do you think a judge would force me to do that??

stealth2 · Mar 18, 2005

It's impossible to say what a judge would do. One may take your other expenses into account, while another may tell you that you should have envisioned this scenario.

Inquiry123 · Mar 18, 2005

Options...

Blunt observation: Unless my math is wrong, you're overextended.

Are the numbers right? If so I'd plan on paying. Settle and avoid paying the extra atty's fees. If the car's in your name, get it back and sell it. I figure there's some extra cash here or there.

Look at it this way...you got off paying less than you should have for sometime since the $435 was calculated. Now Jr.'s gonna have some of the money he missed out on over the years.

Honestly, I hope you get off without having to go further into debt. $1400/mo. ...I hope he's eating good.

LdiJ · Mar 19, 2005

djworza said:
Wisconsin

Here's my case coming up next Wednesday (23rd)

I have 2 boys, the oldest one lived with me and the other lived with the ex. I have, for the past 10 years, faithfully been paying $435 per month based on my having a higher income and each having one child. The one living with me graduated in May 2003 at the age of 18 and went into the Air Force. My ex did nothing to modify her support at that time. I re-married last June and bought a new house in November 2004. December 2004 my ex decides she wants more support for the younger boy who turns 18 in August and will be in college by then. She hires an attorney and they file a motion requesting $1405 per month (based on my income) and also wants back support to the date she filed her motion. (4 months worth equalling $3882) They want to settle out of court but I am not sure if I should as I don't know how the judge will rule. First, I know that the judge doesn't always award the back support (I got that from my case worker at the CSA) Second, I have established my budget and house purchase on the fact that it appeared that she was just going to let the support stay at $435 per mo. until the younger one turned 18. And third, I gave the younger one a car and other gifts which total around $9000. If he awards what they are asking based on the State of WI formula I may loose the house. My attorney and I are arguing that she is just doing this out of spite as I am happily re-married and we are asking that the judge not award her the huge sum she is requesting. The CSA said they never had a case quite like this one and really don't have any idea how it may go. Thoughts??

No one can say for sure, however most judges go pretty much by the guidelines and don't take your budget into consideration. Its also normal for increases to be retroactive to the date of filing.

So...odds are you are going to end up paying what the guidelines say you should pay...plus the arrearages...PLUS more attorney fees if you don't settle.

MtnMoon · Mar 19, 2005

djworza said:
Wisconsin

Here's my case coming up next Wednesday (23rd)

I have 2 boys, the oldest one lived with me and the other lived with the ex. I have, for the past 10 years, faithfully been paying $435 per month based on my having a higher income and each having one child. The one living with me graduated in May 2003 at the age of 18 and went into the Air Force. My ex did nothing to modify her support at that time. I re-married last June and bought a new house in November 2004. December 2004 my ex decides she wants more support for the younger boy who turns 18 in August and will be in college by then. She hires an attorney and they file a motion requesting $1405 per month (based on my income) and also wants back support to the date she filed her motion. (4 months worth equalling $3882) They want to settle out of court but I am not sure if I should as I don't know how the judge will rule. First, I know that the judge doesn't always award the back support (I got that from my case worker at the CSA) Second, I have established my budget and house purchase on the fact that it appeared that she was just going to let the support stay at $435 per mo. until the younger one turned 18. And third, I gave the younger one a car and other gifts which total around $9000. If he awards what they are asking based on the State of WI formula I may loose the house. My attorney and I are arguing that she is just doing this out of spite as I am happily re-married and we are asking that the judge not award her the huge sum she is requesting. The CSA said they never had a case quite like this one and really don't have any idea how it may go. Thoughts??

Well...if there has not been a modification in 10 years...and you are making substantially more now than you were back then...she may very well ask for a modification and receive the increase in child support...regardless of the fact that it's only for a few more months. You could ask the judge if you may pay a certain amount monthly toward arrears...instead of making one lump sum if that would make it financially more feasible for you; however, you would most likely be liable for interest on the arrears as well. With regard to the "car and other gifts" you gave your child...gifts aren't considered part of child support.

Did you pay off the car in full or do you still have payments? Whose name is it in? If you cannot afford the car anymore...and it's in your name...and you're making payments... you might consider what you're going to do about that...keeping in mind that you gave it as a gift to your child.

Hope some of this helps!

djworza · Mar 20, 2005

Thanks for the input. My atty and I will work on the settlement Monday AM. I'll let you know.

Thanks again!!

Jillian483 · Mar 20, 2005

djworza said:
Thanks for the input. My atty and I will work on the settlement Monday AM. I'll let you know.

Thanks again!!

My husband bought a car for his oldest too. She was in a position at the time where it would allow easier visitation. When the ex took him back to court to have the income increased it wound up getting lowered. Gifts to the child do not usually count as payments of child support. In our case my husband was making payments on a car that made visitation easier. If you are putting money into a college fund this can also count (in some cases) as fulfilling part of your child support duties. I am a little confused how she is trying to make you pay so much. I went on the arizona child support calculator a while ago and put in that the NCP makes 10,000 a month and the CP makes none and the child support ammount was only around 1200 for 2 children. You should definitly look over the math again because it just desn't seem right. Check on the gifts things too. It might or might not help

LdiJ · Mar 20, 2005

Jillian483 said:
My husband bought a car for his oldest too. She was in a position at the time where it would allow easier visitation. When the ex took him back to court to have the income increased it wound up getting lowered. Gifts to the child do not usually count as payments of child support. In our case my husband was making payments on a car that made visitation easier. If you are putting money into a college fund this can also count (in some cases) as fulfilling part of your child support duties. I am a little confused how she is trying to make you pay so much. I went on the arizona child support calculator a while ago and put in that the NCP makes 10,000 a month and the CP makes none and the child support ammount was only around 1200 for 2 children. You should definitly look over the math again because it just desn't seem right. Check on the gifts things too. It might or might not help

I think he is probably making a little more money than he is letting on.

seniorjudge · Mar 20, 2005

LdiJ said:
No one can say for sure, however most judges go pretty much by the guidelines and don't take your budget into consideration. Its also normal for increases to be retroactive to the date of filing.

So...odds are you are going to end up paying what the guidelines say you should pay...plus the arrearages...PLUS more attorney fees if you don't settle.

...agreed...

djworza · Mar 24, 2005

Just FYI, I never let on to how much I make in my post. But, it is $8,116 per month. The Wisconsin formula states that I pay 17% on the first $7,000 and 14% on any money after that. So, 17% of $7,000 is $1,190 and 14% of $1,116 is $156.24 for a total of $1,346.24 per month. It turned out that the judge gave her back support to our original court date, not back to the date that she filed her motion and even though she was asking for $1,405 per month, which was my base salary plus a bonus I received, he based it on the above formula but rounded it down to $1,300 per month. He also didn't take into account things I bought him as they were considered gifts. I think the whole thing sucks in that I know I could support him at my house for a lot less than that!!! At least if he comes here to work a summer job at the paper mill I work at the judge ordered child support to her to stop and for her to pay me $300.75 per month for the 3 months till he turns 18 and goes to college.

poiduke · Mar 24, 2005

While You Are There

Do you have an order in place for the college bound child? If not you should discuss with your att. now and get that together before issues arise there.I am currently dealing with that situation.
best of luck

djworza · Mar 24, 2005

poiduke, Please elaborate on that. My attorney assured me that my obligation stops when he is 18. All of you men bashers out there, understand that I plan on helping him out the whole time he is in college. He is my son and I love him. But, it is one thing to do what I can to help him out as best I can and yet another thing to be "ordered" by the court . What if I lost my job and couldn't pay what a court order mandated?

Why did I feel the need to put that disclaimer in???

Probably from some of the snippy responses I have read in some other threads!

seniorjudge · Mar 24, 2005

djworza said:
poiduke, Please elaborate on that. My attorney assured me that my obligation stops when he is 18. All of you men bashers out there, understand that I plan on helping him out the whole time he is in college. He is my son and I love him. But, it is one thing to do what I can to help him out as best I can and yet another thing to be "ordered" by the court . What if I lost my job and couldn't pay what a court order mandated?

Why did I feel the need to put that disclaimer in???

Probably from some of the snippy responses I have read in some other threads!

GENERAL answers:

Q: But, it is one thing to do what I can to help him out as best I can and yet another thing to be "ordered" by the court . What if I lost my job and couldn't pay what a court order mandated?

A: Filing a divorce/child custody-support lawsuit makes it public info and public business. That's just a fact of life.

The order is there for all to see and the state will make sure that it is paid so that I don't have to support the kid. If the NCP in the future was helping out the best NCP could and the CP thought NCP could do better, then it would necessitate yet another court appearance and battle. If the CS order is in place, everyone will know the terms. Courts actually try to do stuff to END litigation.

If the NCP loses his/her job, then he/she is expected to go get another one...just as if the mommy and daddy were still married. Otherwise, NCPs all over the place would be quitting their jobs (which they do anyway).

The court makes a CS order based on what the earning ability of the NCP was at the time of the order and if NCP's ability ever changes, then NCP must go back to court and try to convince the judge that he/she can't pay what was originally ordered.

My attorney assured me that my obligation stops when he is 18.

Make sure that is in the order.

How do you think a judge will rule on this?

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