Can I Get Some Clarification Here?

Jillian483 · Mar 20, 2005

What is the name of your state? The courts are in Arizona
So if arizona child support guidlines say this....
If a parent is working below earning capasity the courts may look at the reasons.... (bla bla bla some more) Examples in which it would be innaporpriate to assign an income are as follows:
- A parent is engaged in reasonable career or occupational training to establish basic skills or reasonably calculated to enhance income capasity.
If my husband is 50% disabled and going to school should he have to have an income assigned?
Some info you might need to know:
He gets 850 a month in disability (and informend the courts of this)
He gets a living allowance of 720 a month from cahpter 31. (he informed them of this too.
The courts took these two ammounts and then assigned him an income of 18.50 an hour (his income at previous job) at 20 hours a week on top of the woth two ammounts.
- The courts said that there are plenty of parents that work part time and go to school full time.
- They told him that while he was not at work he had to leave the kids in the mothers care. Thus causing him to have to pay her more because of the time in parenting change.

The problem here is that the he had to quit his 18.50 an hour job for the following reasons...
- It was a night shift job and he was spending no time with the kids.
- The strain on his knee from lifting heavy boxes all day was too much.

Can the courts assign him an income if her is already pulling the other two incomes? How would we convince the courts to take it away?

Question #2: The courts assigned her an income but then gave her credit for day care when the children do not go to daycare. What is the point of doing this? Yeah great we managed to get her assigned an income but now we have to pay her for half of day care that she does not even use. Nor would she need to use it because even if she did work, she would be at work while the kids are in school and get off when they got out.

Jillian483 · Mar 20, 2005

Any info in this subject would be greatly appreciated

Phnx02 · Mar 20, 2005

Jillian483 said:
What is the name of your state? The courts are in Arizona
So if arizona child support guidlines say this....
If a parent is working below earning capasity the courts may look at the reasons.... (bla bla bla some more) Examples in which it would be innaporpriate to assign an income are as follows:
- A parent is engaged in reasonable career or occupational training to establish basic skills or reasonably calculated to enhance income capasity.
If my husband is 50% disabled and going to school should he have to have an income assigned?
Some info you might need to know:
He gets 850 a month in disability (and informend the courts of this)
He gets a living allowance of 720 a month from cahpter 31. (he informed them of this too.
The courts took these two ammounts and then assigned him an income of 18.50 an hour (his income at previous job) at 20 hours a week on top of the woth two ammounts.
- The courts said that there are plenty of parents that work part time and go to school full time.
- They told him that while he was not at work he had to leave the kids in the mothers care. Thus causing him to have to pay her more because of the time in parenting change.

The problem here is that the he had to quit his 18.50 an hour job for the following reasons...
- It was a night shift job and he was spending no time with the kids.
- The strain on his knee from lifting heavy boxes all day was too much.

Can the courts assign him an income if her is already pulling the other two incomes? How would we convince the courts to take it away?

Question #2: The courts assigned her an income but then gave her credit for day care when the children do not go to daycare. What is the point of doing this? Yeah great we managed to get her assigned an income but now we have to pay her for half of day care that she does not even use. Nor would she need to use it because even if she did work, she would be at work while the kids are in school and get off when they got out.

If your husband is receiving disability or any other source of money, this is considered income and cs will be based on this. Quitting a job because you don't get to spend enough time with your kids is not a good enough reason. Everyone has to work to pay the bills and this is just the way it is. If he has bad knees, there's plenty of jobs available that don't involve lifting or prolonged standing.
Placing the kids in his mother's care: a heck of alot cheaper than paying 1/2 daycare costs......even if this means paying more for less time......you have to weigh everything out.

Jillian483 · Mar 20, 2005

Phnx02 said:
If your husband is receiving disability or any other source of money, this is considered income and cs will be based on this. Quitting a job because you don't get to spend enough time with your kids is not a good enough reason. Everyone has to work to pay the bills and this is just the way it is. If he has bad knees, there's plenty of jobs available that don't involve lifting or prolonged standing.
Placing the kids in his mother's care: a heck of alot cheaper than paying 1/2 daycare costs......even if this means paying more for less time......you have to weigh everything out.

He has to pay her to watch the kids.... 500 dollars a month. We had someone that can do it for free. This was for the old order. We live in separate states now so the "dropping them off with her thing" is no longer in place. My question is that Chapter 31 pays him to go to school. This is his job of a sort. I thought that an income can only be assigned if someone was not earning up to their potential. With them doing this it takes his 7 or 18 hun income a month and changes it to 0ver a 3,000 dollar a month income. He goes full time to school . Besides the law very vlearly states... A parent is engaged in reasonable career or occupational training to establish basic skills or reasonably calculated to enhance income capasity. According to this can they legally assign him an income when he already has one?
850+750 = 1600 a month / by 160 hours a month (full time work) = 10 dollars an hour.
He very graciously gave her 500 dollars a month of his disability income but she wants more.
My other question is that he right now is paying for child care when it is not only not needed but not being used. What can be done about this? The lady from the child support agency said that if she was working she would need daycare. IF she DID need daycare she would only require it for no more than 30 minutes to an hour a day. So lets say that she has to pay someone 5 dollars to watch the kids for 30 minutes. That is a hundred dollars a month. He is paying her for half of 600 dollars a month. It may not seem like a big thing but it is. It takes a child support order that should be around 300 (at the most) and rises it up to over 600 (I think 690) a month. She has a college degree (which my husband very stupidly paid for) and could be making at a minimum around 60,000 a year but could go up to around 100,000 a year. We need to do something. We make it by paycheck to paycheck here but are unable to put any money into savings.
It might also be important to know that we buy all of the things that the kids need (Clothes, we bought them christmas presants from both parents becuase she said that she refused to do so and we did not want to ruin christmas for the kids, birthday gifts same thing here, field trips, we give the school 40 dollars a month to buy the children school lunches.) Really I don't know what she could be doing with that child support each month. We have taken her to court over it and the judge asked her where the money was going and she lied to him. Between her and her SSgt husband (in the military) they own 2 homes both bought for over 150,000 a brand new boat, four cars, one is a collectors car, and she buys hersalf a new wardrobe each season of the year. While she lies about her income and lives in luxury, I have no milk in the fridge, live in a 2 bedroom apartment, have cheap clothes and furniture and live paycheck to paycheck. All because half of what my husband pulls in is sent to his ex wife. I am not asying that the children should not be cared for here. I am saying that while she lies about her income my husband has to give her money for things that she is not providing fot the children. My husband does not have a bad knee he has no knee. He is missing his kneecap. He cannot work any job where he has to stand for hours on end that pays anything worth crap. When he was working hil last job he say the children for an hour or 2 a day and all of that time away from his children was thrown in his face and the courts said that he was a crappy father for not spendin gmore time with them. He has 2 years of college left and then he will have his degree. His job starting out pays around 80,000 so I would say that him going to school is greatly increasing his earning capasity. Even if he goes and get a job that does not pay 18.50 an hour we have been informed by the child support agency that they will not lower it to his new income and in a way ordered him to get a job that pays at least 18.50 an hour.

CJane · Mar 20, 2005

Generally, when CS is paid, the parent paying the support has NO SAY in how it's spent. It's unfortunate, sometimes, but that's the way that it is. If I was getting support (I'm not, currently), my ex would have no say over whether I spent it on rent/groceries or board for mine an my children's horses. It's up to ME to decide what that is used for. Yes, it's to be used 'for the children' but once it's in the checking account, there's no way to tell whether that specific money is being used specifically for the kids.

It's wonderful that you purchase presents for the kids' birthdays and xmases, but it's not an obligation, and if the mother chooses not to do so, that's hardly neglect. Plenty of kids don't celebrate Christmas with gifts and commercialism.

I guess I don't understand why your husband can't work while attending school. There are a lot of jobs that don't require lifting or standing all day long. And while it's wonderful that in two years he MIGHT make good money (though I don't know all that many careers that start out at $80,000), the kis need to be taken care of NOW.

Phnx02 · Mar 20, 2005

Jillian483 said:
He has to pay her to watch the kids.... 500 dollars a month. We had someone that can do it for free. This was for the old order. We live in separate states now so the "dropping them off with her thing" is no longer in place. My question is that Chapter 31 pays him to go to school. This is his job of a sort. I thought that an income can only be assigned if someone was not earning up to their potential. With them doing this it takes his 7 or 18 hun income a month and changes it to 0ver a 3,000 dollar a month income. He goes full time to school . Besides the law very vlearly states... A parent is engaged in reasonable career or occupational training to establish basic skills or reasonably calculated to enhance income capasity. According to this can they legally assign him an income when he already has one?
850+750 = 1600 a month / by 160 hours a month (full time work) = 10 dollars an hour.
He very graciously gave her 500 dollars a month of his disability income but she wants more.
My other question is that he right now is paying for child care when it is not only not needed but not being used. What can be done about this? The lady from the child support agency said that if she was working she would need daycare. IF she DID need daycare she would only require it for no more than 30 minutes to an hour a day. So lets say that she has to pay someone 5 dollars to watch the kids for 30 minutes. That is a hundred dollars a month. He is paying her for half of 600 dollars a month. It may not seem like a big thing but it is. It takes a child support order that should be around 300 (at the most) and rises it up to over 600 (I think 690) a month. She has a college degree (which my husband very stupidly paid for) and could be making at a minimum around 60,000 a year but could go up to around 100,000 a year. We need to do something. We make it by paycheck to paycheck here but are unable to put any money into savings.
It might also be important to know that we buy all of the things that the kids need (Clothes, we bought them christmas presants from both parents becuase she said that she refused to do so and we did not want to ruin christmas for the kids, birthday gifts same thing here, field trips, we give the school 40 dollars a month to buy the children school lunches.) Really I don't know what she could be doing with that child support each month. We have taken her to court over it and the judge asked her where the money was going and she lied to him. Between her and her SSgt husband (in the military) they own 2 homes both bought for over 150,000 a brand new boat, four cars, one is a collectors car, and she buys hersalf a new wardrobe each season of the year. While she lies about her income and lives in luxury, I have no milk in the fridge, live in a 2 bedroom apartment, have cheap clothes and furniture and live paycheck to paycheck. All because half of what my husband pulls in is sent to his ex wife. I am not asying that the children should not be cared for here. I am saying that while she lies about her income my husband has to give her money for things that she is not providing fot the children. My husband does not have a bad knee he has no knee. He is missing his kneecap. He cannot work any job where he has to stand for hours on end that pays anything worth crap. When he was working hil last job he say the children for an hour or 2 a day and all of that time away from his children was thrown in his face and the courts said that he was a crappy father for not spendin gmore time with them. He has 2 years of college left and then he will have his degree. His job starting out pays around 80,000 so I would say that him going to school is greatly increasing his earning capasity. Even if he goes and get a job that does not pay 18.50 an hour we have been informed by the child support agency that they will not lower it to his new income and in a way ordered him to get a job that pays at least 18.50 an hour.

Why does your husband have to pay his mother $500 a month to watch her own grandkids? This is ridiculous.
What is a "chapter 31" that pays him to go to school?
Regardless, it does sound that some of this is unfair. If he's paying 1/2 daycare that isn't being utilized, you definately need to get this modified. But at the same time, you need to be more realistic about the possible costs. How many kids need child care? If it's more than 1 child, $5.00 an hour won't cover it. This is the going rate for 1 kid. And even so, it can be very difficult to find someone to watch children after school for just 30 minutes a day at a minimum hourly rate. Most childcare facilities, including home providers, charge by the week.....regardless if the child is there 30 minutes or 3 hours. For instance, my child only needs about 1 hour of after-school care 2 days a week, but I have to pay for a whole week's care at a time that includes up to 3 hours more a day than he's actually there. This is the payment plan for every facility in my area.

How many children does your husband have? If he's paying up to 50% of his income towards cs, then there must be multiple children. While this can be draining, this is the price you pay for having so many kids without a good enough job to support them all. Maybe your husband should put off school until the kids are raised. We all have to make personal sacrifices for the sake of our kids.

Jillian483 · Mar 20, 2005

There are 2 kids, only one requires daycare here. I guess I didn't explain things compleatly. In Arizona, you receive credit for daycare. As in if it is split 50/50 then one parent 9my husband) pays the other parent (the mother) through child suppot and the mother is supposed to put that towadrs child care. The child support paperwork very clearly has a bracket for the cost of child care.
My husband does not pay his mother for daycare he had to pay the childrens mother for her to watch her own children. When she quit her job and my husband asked her how she was going to provide her half of the child care she told him that he was paying her to watch the childre. By her watching them for free (i guess) half of the time she was then providing her half of the child support. ( I'm not sure how confused you are yet

) He told her that if daycare was no longer needed then he was going to be going back to have a reduction in child support. SHE SAID "don't bother becuase I hated my job and had to get out. If you go back to court I will just start sending them back to daycare. You don't like it? Deal with it" Yeah I know she is a bitch. Well anyway she denied everything in court and we could not prove it. Still don't know how confused you are.
Oh and just so you know, My husband does fulfill his monthly obligation of child support to the child. He currently maintains a job because I have cancer treatment every week and it is too draining for me to work right now. I pull money from my MGIB every month.
We know that we don't have to send the gifts but the one time that we didn't the children were in tears. They thought that they had been bad and that santa didn't like them. So just to save the covusion and dissapointment we do it.
Chapter 31 is vocational rehabilitation. Basically if you have a service (military) related injury that will affect you ability to get a job once your enlistment is up the pay for you to go back to school. The reasong why you get a living allowance for doing so is because you are required to keep a certain GPA, not miss a lot of class and take a certain ammount of classes per semester. They pay you the money to supplement an income from not being able to work due to your disability and your schooling.
Thanks for your responses.

stealth2 · Mar 21, 2005

Jillian483 said:
The problem here is that the he had to quit his 18.50 an hour job for the following reasons...
- It was a night shift job and he was spending no time with the kids.
- The strain on his knee from lifting heavy boxes all day was too much.

The bolded two words are the salient reason why he was imputed the income he was imputed. He quit. That's voluntary unemployment and is not considered a reason to modifcy a support obligation.

StpmomNchicago · Mar 21, 2005

stealth2 said:
The bolded two words are the salient reason why he was imputed the income he was imputed. He quit. That's voluntary unemployment and is not considered a reason to modifcy a support obligation.

I Know nothing here about the actuall injury but would it go to say that if you working could further damage you knee to the point where it would cause you major problems in the future is that not enough reason to quit your job? I don't really know much about the child support thing but it seems fair that if you are already making $10.00 and hour it seems unfair to add another $18.50 an hour when you had to quit because the job was causing you injury.

CJane · Mar 21, 2005

StpmomNchicago said:
I Know nothing here about the actuall injury but would it go to say that if you working could further damage you knee to the point where it would cause you major problems in the future is that not enough reason to quit your job? I don't really know much about the child support thing but it seems fair that if you are already making $10.00 and hour it seems unfair to add another $18.50 an hour when you had to quit because the job was causing you injury.

Certainly not a legal opinion, but...

It MAY make a difference if he was told by a physician that he should quit his job, rather than just deciding to quit because it was 'too much'. Sometimes, my job is 'too much' and I don't walk away from it, yanno?

If he has a disability that directly contributed to his inability to work at that job, AND he has a physician's order to back him up, that might help. HOWEVER, quitting a job to spend more time with your kids is probably never going to be acceptable.

Jillian483 · Mar 22, 2005

He does

CJane said:
Certainly not a legal opinion, but...

It MAY make a difference if he was told by a physician that he should quit his job, rather than just deciding to quit because it was 'too much'. Sometimes, my job is 'too much' and I don't walk away from it, yanno?

If he has a disability that directly contributed to his inability to work at that job, AND he has a physician's order to back him up, that might help. HOWEVER, quitting a job to spend more time with your kids is probably never going to be acceptable.

He has a letter from the VA that he took to court that says that he should not be standing for prolonged hours at a time. Doing so will cause further dammage to his knee. Would it be better if we simply request that the assigned income be assigned at a lower ammount?

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