Complete Homeowners Minutes

What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state?NY York

NY Law and our HOA bylaws state that homeowners are entitled to have the minutes and all documentation related to the business of our HOA. I have stated in writing and in an open Board meeting that I want these minutes.

I was told that I could not have the meeting minutes from the "executive Board Meeting" as these relate to neighbor complaints, assessment arrears, and the like but only the Board "Business" meeting minutes.

NY law and the bylaws for our HOA do not say I can have all the minutes except certain "kinds" of HOA minutes so should I not have all the minutes?

That's b-o-l-o-g-n-a. I get our minutes, however, they charge for postage. They have to provide the minutes to all members who pay their dues. That's you If they don't, report them to the State Attorney General's office of New York. They'll investigate and find out why they're trying to hide the minutes from it's members. You can find your AG at www.ny.gov and do a search for "real estate" and look for "consumer complaints" and click on that link. Scroll around until you find "Attorney General's Office." I'll try to post the link here:
http://www.oag.state.ny.us/contact.html

"You cannot possess what you've never pursued." - Socalcondo

Actually, no Board that I've ever represented makes their executive minutes available absent a court order. To the poster from CA, please point me to the NY State law that requires them to do so.

The reason for pursuing the Atty General to file a complain will pressure the HOA board to release this information. Believe me, if they feel they are under suspicion, they will give you the minutes. They can, however, edit them which is not fair. Maybe Calif is more strict towards this issue. Don't really know why your Board won't release them. I would definitely pursue filing the complaint.

socalcondo said:

The reason for pursuing the Atty General to file a complain will pressure the HOA board to release this information. Believe me, if they feel they are under suspicion, they will give you the minutes. They can, however, edit them which is not fair. Maybe Calif is more strict towards this issue. Don't really know why your Board won't release them. I would definitely pursue filing the complaint.

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Hello? Able to read at all? How many co-op boards and HOAs have you represented? NY law does not require them to be made public. Please show me the law that says it is. The attorney general could certainly care less about the issue.

Complete Minutes

Thanks for all the replies.

And senior member the NY law in regards to Board minutes is as follows;

NYS Not for Profit Corporation law, S621, does state that "every corporation shall keep . ..minutes of the proceedings of its members, board and executive committee, if any".

It also states that any member of that corporation shall "have the right to examine in person ….., during usual business hours, its minutes of the proceedings of its members".

I understand they do not have to publish these minutes but should I not have the right to look at ALL of the minutes?

NY Lady said:

Thanks for all the replies.

And senior member the NY law in regards to Board minutes is as follows;

NYS Not for Profit Corporation law, , does state that "every corporation shall keep . ..minutes of the proceedings of its members, board and executive committee, if any".

It also states that any member of that corporation shall "have the right to examine in person ….., during usual business hours, its minutes of the proceedings of its members".

I understand they do not have to publish these minutes but should I not have the right to look at ALL of the minutes?

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S621
(b) Any person who shall have been a member of record of a corporation
for at least six months immediately preceding his demand, or any person
holding, or thereunto authorized in writing by the holders of, at least
five percent of any class of the outstanding capital certificates, upon
at least five days written demand shall have the right to examine in
person or by agent or attorney, during usual business hours, its minutes
of the proceedings of its members and list or record of members and to
make extracts therefrom.
(c) An inspection authorized by paragraph (b) may be denied to such
member or other person upon his refusal to furnish to the corporation,
its transfer agent or registrar an affidavit that such inspection is not
desired and will not be used for a purpose which is in the interest of a
business or object other than the business of the corporation and that
he has not within five years given, sold or offered for sale any list or
record of members of any domestic or foreign corporation or aided or
abetted, or attempted or offered to aid or abet, any person in procuring
any such list or record of members for any such purpose.

As noted, you still need to prove "proper purpose" to get them via court order (which is your only alternative if the Board won't comply). Needless to say, if there are two "levels" of meetings, it will be hard to say that the lower tier won't satisfy any purpose you can come up with.

And if there's a lawyer on the executive committee then you can just about forget about ever seeing them - then there are a few privileges for attorneys which can be asserted.


PS: I assume you met the 6 month requirement?

Complete Minutes

Thanks again for taking the time to reply

I have been with the HOA for over 10 years so the six month requirement has been met and we have no lawyer on the Board.

I am confused as to why I need a Court order as the law states that I do need a letter from my attorney requesting a time to look over the minutes and other documents associated with the business of our HOA and that is all that it seems to require?

In addition our own bylaws do state that any member can have a copy of the Board minutes. It does not specify general board meeting or executive session though I am sure the Board can interpret it in any way it wishes.

Man I hate HOAs. Theres always a clique runnin things and trying to scam to their own benefit vs the good of all. I had a condo from hell in CO, oh I need a drink!!

Actually, it just needs to be a written request, not necessarily from a lawyer. But the point is, and I'm fairly sure its in the statute, (it was changed a numbner of years ago), that the remedy for non-compliance is a court (not small claims, either) order. That alone is enough to deter most people.

Those that insist on filing suit get to litigate the "proper purpose" clause, which, as I stated, is likely to be met by providing you with the "lower" tier board minutes (which you will have to pay for also, by the way). I have yet to have order against me in any case where there have been two or more layers of "boards" (knock wood).

What county are you in? Some are more lenient than others.

I suggest, as I have already done myself, to request copies of past and current minutes without telling them why you want them. I will use them at the appropriate time if I have to sue them. Best of success in your fight for homeowners' rights

socalcondo said:

I suggest, as I have already done myself, to request copies of past and current minutes without telling them why you want them. I will use them at the appropriate time if I have to sue them. Best of success in your fight for homeowners' rights

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Yeah, that's really great advice, considering the statute requires stating the purpose of the request for it to be even considered.

Complete Minutes

I live in Monroe county and will be discussing this matter with an attorney. Our HOA was nearly bankrupt 9 months ago, secretive as many are, and the only way it was "saved" was that I gathered up the members for special meetings and got the attention of the Board and our reserves were replenished.

But after a finance committee (I am on it) was established and the meetings were opened to the members the Board is slipping backwards once again. They make sure that you cannot hear them during the VERY short business meeting and then we are all ordered to leave so they can have their executive meeting. The treasurer is threatening to have the meetings closed once again as not enough people attend them and we have not had a finance committee meeting in 3 months.

I no longer feel I can save this whole can of worms but sure would like to maintain the marketability of my home and the only way is to make sure the business of the Board is not Monkey business.

Again, I really appreciated the replies as they were a big help to me.

While I don't blame you for wanting to keep the value of your home up, you might want to start thinking about the bigger picture. It's very unlikely you can signlehandedly "save" a Board from itself. In the long run, you will likely either have to start a formal lawsuit (not just to get the minutes, but for a breach of fiduciary duty) or just move and not deal with idiot Board members.

You can always get a "membership" list of all the shareholders and mail tham all a notice about the Board's "doings" in the hope the public outcry might spur the Board into action. (Just make sure not to say anything untrue if you go that route). Otherwise, if it were me, I'd just move. If you start a lawsuit, even if you win, do you really think your former-Board member neighbors are going to be happy to see you? Sometimes even when you win, you still lose.

Good luck either way.