shhhh....it's the police

So you're throwing a party. A huge party. One that doesnt even include the internet OR any free legal advice forums. And you get a knock on the door...it's the police. Now if you dont answer your door but just continue partying and making lots of noise, WHAT ARE THE OPTIONS FOR THE POLICE. Keeping with the scenario....the police keep knocking, yelling, threatening, etc. You tell them (through the door) that you do not wish to open the door and deal/speak with them. ARE THERE ADDITIONAL OPTIONS THAT THE POLICE HAVE KNOWING THAT YOU ARE NOT COOPERATING. Remember all this is happening with the police outside of a locked front door....and you and your partygoers on the other side of that door.

um

Officer #1: Did you hear someone yell Rape?

Officer #2: I sure did... lets go in boys.

Probable cause

Let me guess, they entered your apartment against your will, right?

I love this probable cause stuff because there are so many people out there that think they actually have rights out there aginst searches.

Here's my take on the subject (also have life experience on this one)

Reasonable suspicion:Facts or circumstances which would lead a reasonable person to suspect that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed

At this stage, police may detain the suspect for a brief period and perform a frisk. In some cases, drug-sniffing dogs may be called to the scene, although officers must cite a reason for suspecting the presence of drug evidence in particular. Refusing a search does not create reasonable suspicion, although acting nervous and answering questions inconsistently can. For this reason, it is best not to answer questions if you have to lie in order to do so. Police authority increases if they catch you in a lie, but not if you refuse to answer questions. As a general rule, reasonable suspicion applies to situation in which police have reason to believe you’re up to something, but they don’t know what it is.

Probable cause: Facts or evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime has been, is being, or will be committed and the person arrested is responsible

At this stage, police may perform a search, and often an arrest. Probable cause generally means police know what crime they suspect you of and have discovered evidence to support that belief. Common examples include seeing or smelling evidence which is in plain view, or receiving an admission of guilt for a specific crime.

For the conscientious citizen, the best advice regarding police authority is to stick to your guns and not waive your constitutional rights under any circumstances. Police officers will often give misleading descriptions of what their authority is, but you have nothing to gain by submitting to coercive police tactics. Police must make ad hoc decisions in the streets regarding their authority level in a given situation and these decisions are subject to review in court. Asserting your rights properly is good way to avoid arrest, but it is an even better way to avoid a conviction.

Basically, your word vs. theirs. Here's why nothing is done about it in court.

If they use probable cause and FIND something, say drugs, then there probable cause becomes pretty justified in court wouldn't you think?

If they do NOT find anything, who has the time/money to try to take cops to court? Do you think they will tell it exactly how it happened, or fabricate their story? Who will the judge side with I wonder?

My aprment was searched recently (Well plain view only) here;s why IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND: on my next post.

The Story

My girlfriend works as a bartender at a local strip club. One night the DJ gave her and another girl a ride to our apartment. When he went back out to his car he dropped his cell phone in his car somewhere. As he was looking for it, two cops stopped him, questioned him and even SEARCHED him. He told them he was dropping off friends from work and looking for his cell phone, they searched him anyway and then asked for a description of the girls. When he told them my girl friend looks like "Angelina Jolie" they (and this next part is important) let him go and then approached the house.

When I heard the knock at the door, I asked "Who is it". The person replied "Tony". I couldn't remember the DJ's name right off the bat so figuring it was him (maybe he left something) I opened the door. Standing in front of me were two on duty cops in their uniforms. I asked what the problem was and they asked to come in. With nothing to hide I let them in.

Once in, they said there was a suspicious man in a car claiming to have dropped off two girls here and they were just checking out his story. Yes, checking out his story after letting him go, that makes complete sense doesn't it. Anyway, they "stated" that they were "concerned" because they had been alot of break-ins in the area. While they were inside they talked to the girls about things that have nothing to do with police work, as they talked they also asked who was on the lease who lived here, ect. (covering themselves). They also shined their lights around looking for stuff.

I knew it was all BS, they just wanted to check out the girls. A week later I was confirmed on it. I know the apartment manager. She told me that one of the cops actually approached her asking about my girlfirend. If she lived there alone, if she was available ect. Can you believe that? The sad thing is there is nothing I can do about this instance of obvious harassment and failure to indentify themselves as officers. This is the world we live in. It is also not the first time my girlfriend has been harrassed by cops, once she was actually pulled over. No ticket given, one of the cops was flirting so bad the other cop actually told him "That's enough".

-THE SIN MAN

tHEY HAD PROBABLE CAUSE on the initial complaint and the plaintiffs behavior resulted in the futherence of the probable cause.

Im not a lawyer but this happens thousands of times across the USA.

Say theirs a complaint of too much noise..............officers go to residence and theres no answer to the knock............well they can tell theres activity in the residence.........they bust in..............perfectly legal because of reasonable suspicion.

If called by a panther, don't anther....

When faced with the dreaded knock upon the door, the criminal element would be wise to heed the words of the poet Ogden Nash: "f called by a panther, don't anther." The Panther, in The Moon is Shining Bright as Day, ed. Ogden Nash (1953).


"Knock & Talk" Consent Searches: If Called by a Panther, Don't Anther

by H. Morley Swingle and Kevin M. Zoellner

Synopsis: "Knock and talk" consent searches are popular with law enforcement officers because they save the time and trouble of securing a search warrant from a judge. While the potential for abuse is apparent, the determination whether a particular "knock and talk" search is legal involves nothing more than the application of well-established Fourth Amendment principles....

Read the whole thing:

http://www.mobar.org/journal/1999/janfeb/swingle.htm

getting warmer...

ok so you stick to your guns and don't answer the door. Most of the time the cops have something better to do and head out. But say they dont...what is the probability that they can get an arrest warrant due to excessive noise? Say they come back and everyone's passed out -- party's over. Should everyone in the country assume that if the cops are at your door and you didn't call them, then don't answer it (that must be in an ACLU handbook somewhere). Has anyone ever faced this situation before - I'm really looking for a police officer's opinion/experiences.

OK let's give it a try

Even if the officers have an arrest warrant they would still need a warrant to enter your home. You do not have to let them in without it. Let's say they want to arrest you for excessive noise, they would have to go and get a warrant to enter your home. If they enter without that warrant and did not have your consent, you could have pounds of coke in there and none of it would stand up in court. Here's a link to read. Ever hear of the Ramey?

http://www.co.alameda.ca.us/da/pov/documents/rameyweb.htm

As far as getting a warrant to arrest you for excessive noise, I do not see why they would bother. Usually a simple "Turn it down" is sufficent, just comply.

Your options might be state specific. Additionally, it will depend on the comlainant and if the reporting party wants to be on the record with the whole thing.

In my state, we'd be off for coffee (after issuing parking cites for whatever we could to the cars parked all over the street) if there was nobody who wished to pursue charges or make a citizen's arrest.

If we had a complainant who was willing to go on the record, there are quite a number of options we might pursue.

- Carl

SINCITY89103 said:

Even if the officers have an arrest warrant they would still need a warrant to enter your home. You do not have to let them in without it.

Click to expand...

Wrong. If the suspect to be arrested was at someone ELSE's home, then you'd likely be correct ... but in the suspect's own home, and if there was good cause to believe the subject on the arrest warrant was inside, no warrant would be necessary (at least in CA).

Ramey addresses the need for an arrest warrant prior to making entry and not generally with regard to an arrest warrant.

- Carl

Sorry I meant to say:

CdwJava said:

Wrong. If the suspect to be arrested was at someone ELSE's home, then you'd likely be correct ... but in the suspect's own home, and if there was good cause to believe the subject on the arrest warrant was inside, no warrant would be necessary (at least in CA).

Ramey addresses the need for an arrest warrant prior to making entry and not generally with regard to an arrest warrant.

- Carl

Click to expand...

Yes you are right, I meant to say if they wanted to arrest you for excessive noise that they would first need to get a warrant before entering your home.

It is also best to talk to cops through the door, NEVER open the door no matter what they say (besides them saying they have a warrant of course). The reason, they could pull you out of the door IF you were standing in the threshold of the door, which was ruled by the Supreme court as being public space. Or you could answer the door and step back into your home away from the threshold, leaving them with the only option of actually crossing the threshold to "grab" you, that would be illegal without a warrant.

FYI: Cops CAN also be arrested. That's right, cops can be arrested in some cases for being on your property without a warrant and when probable cause has been exhausted. In other words, if it is obvious there is no immediate danger when asked to get off your property they MUST comply, or call the cops , sorry could not help myself....

-THE SIN MAN

SINCITY89103 said:

FYI: Cops CAN also be arrested. That's right, cops can be arrested in some cases for being on your property without a warrant and when probable cause has been exhausted. In other words, if it is obvious there is no immediate danger when asked to get off your property they MUST comply, or call the cops , sorry could not help myself....

Click to expand...

Good luck trying THAT!

Plus, you are not completely correct about the presence of the officers. There can be any number of reasons that are NOT a matter of "immediate danger" that can justify the presence of the police.

- Carl