Permentent Alimony since 1991

Permenent Alimony since 1991 (NC) Need Help!

What is the name of your state? North Carolina, Onslow County
I hope someone can give me some sound legal advice.
I have been paying Court Ordered Alimony since 1991 at $200.00 per month.
The Alimony was Ordered to be paid to the Recipient until "Death of the Recipient."
I also was ordered to pay Child Support at that time until the children met the Statute guidelines under the laws of NC. That order was vacated last year when the youngest of the two minor children graduated from High School.
I still however pay Alimony in accordance with the 1991 Divorce Decree.
Currently, I earn $1200 per month and my new spouse earns approx. $2500 per month. We are also home owners. I have no 401K or Savings as it was depleted over the years in order to pay the Child Support.
My former spouse has a late model car, no minor children residing with her, earns approx. $15,000 per year and last year purchased a home valued at $70,000. My Son told me she used $10,000 from her 401K to pay the down payment on her home. She has not remarried and although I have heard she has a male friend I do not know if she is co-habitating, although I do know that cohabitation would be grounds to cease the Alimony payments.
I might add I was represented by Counsel at the time of the Divorce. He is now retired.
My former Spouse has been represented "Pro Bono" by her Counsel since the beginning of this action in 1991. The only time I have been represented by Counsel was at the Divorce hearing. Since that time I have represented myself "Pro Se" winning soime and losing some.
I might add her Attorney has always argued she is "Indigent" and I feel as though he may have knowledge of the home she purchased as he is also a practicioner of Real Estate Law, although I do know that he was not the Attorney of Record for the Closing. I do not feel I can afford a good Attorney in this matter. I do not claim to be an "Angel" as we have been in the Courts several times over "Show Cause" issues involving support issues, but those obligations have now been vacated, leaving me with only the Alimony issue to contend with.
There was no evidence of abuse during the Divorce hearing nor was that subject even breached.
My Attorney informed me at the time of the Divorce to simply agree to what her Attorney requested if I wanted my Divorce and my "Peace."
I complied.
My questions are :
What recourse do I have to end this matter of Alimony?
What are my chances of success?
How do I go about requesting the Order be vacated?
What evidence should I present?
Where can I find statistics of NC Alimony (i.e.) the number of those paying permenent Alimony and the income of those persons etc?
Any helpful Case Law would also be appreciated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

usmcret0369 said:

My questions are :
What recourse do I have to end this matter of Alimony?

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Pray that she kicks the bucket soon.

usmcret0369 said:

What are my chances of success?

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None, unless you do the deed yourself.

usmcret0369 said:

How do I go about requesting the Order be vacated?

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Repeat after me: "Your honor, the recipient is dead to me, is that enough?

usmcret0369 said:

What evidence should I present?
A death certificate

usmcret0369 said:

Where can I find statistics of NC Alimony (i.e.) the number of those paying permenent Alimony and the income of those persons etc?

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No answer here.

usmcret0369 said:

Any helpful Case Law would also be appreciated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

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O.K. how about, "What don't you understand about the word "PERMANENT" or the phrase "Until the death of the recipient"?

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Thanks BelizeBreeze but I needed an Attorney, not a Comedian.
Sort of funny but Bill Handle you are not!
Guess, I will not be putting you on my Christmas Card mailing list.

usmcret0369 said:

Thanks BelizeBreeze but I needed an Attorney, not a Comedian.
Sort of funny but Bill Handle you are not!
Guess, I will not be putting you on my Christmas Card mailing list.

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Belize gave you the correct answer. You signed a contract that said "permanent or until the death of the recipient". You aren't getting out of that contract. In fact, you might not even be able to get out of that contract if she got married, based on the way that it is worded.

Where did he say he AGREED to anything. You say it was court ordered so therefore I assume this was not an agreement but in fact there was ahearing, evidence presented and the JUDGE made the decision.
If that's true then most states permit either party to go back due to a change in circumstances with discovery and another decision would then be made.
Belize need not respond .......your opinions and input are useless to those seeking advice.

comparator said:

Where did he say he AGREED to anything. You say it was court ordered so therefore I assume this was not an agreement but in fact there was ahearing, evidence presented and the JUDGE made the decision.
If that's true then most states permit either party to go back due to a change in circumstances with discovery and another decision would then be made.
Belize need not respond .......your opinions and input are useless to those seeking advice.

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Odds are that it was a divorce agreement rather than a judge's order. The odds of a judge making an alimony order that says "until the death of the recipient", without including any clauses regarding remarriage etc., are pretty slim.

However it would be helpful if the OP would answer whether or not he signed a divorce agreement.

usmcret0369 said:

What is the name of your state? North Carolina, Onslow County
I hope someone can give me some sound legal advice.
I have been paying Court Ordered Alimony since 1991 at $200.00 per month.
The Alimony was Ordered to be paid to the Recipient until "Death of the Recipient."
I also was ordered to pay Child Support at that time until the children met the Statute guidelines under the laws of NC. That order was vacated last year when the youngest of the two minor children graduated from High School.
I still however pay Alimony in accordance with the 1991 Divorce Decree.
Currently, I earn $1200 per month and my new spouse earns approx. $2500 per month. We are also home owners. I have no 401K or Savings as it was depleted over the years in order to pay the Child Support.
My former spouse has a late model car, no minor children residing with her, earns approx. $15,000 per year and last year purchased a home valued at $70,000. My Son told me she used $10,000 from her 401K to pay the down payment on her home. She has not remarried and although I have heard she has a male friend I do not know if she is co-habitating, although I do know that cohabitation would be grounds to cease the Alimony payments.
I might add I was represented by Counsel at the time of the Divorce. He is now retired.
My former Spouse has been represented "Pro Bono" by her Counsel since the beginning of this action in 1991. The only time I have been represented by Counsel was at the Divorce hearing. Since that time I have represented myself "Pro Se" winning soime and losing some.
I might add her Attorney has always argued she is "Indigent" and I feel as though he may have knowledge of the home she purchased as he is also a practicioner of Real Estate Law, although I do know that he was not the Attorney of Record for the Closing. I do not feel I can afford a good Attorney in this matter. I do not claim to be an "Angel" as we have been in the Courts several times over "Show Cause" issues involving support issues, but those obligations have now been vacated, leaving me with only the Alimony issue to contend with.
There was no evidence of abuse during the Divorce hearing nor was that subject even breached.
My Attorney informed me at the time of the Divorce to simply agree to what her Attorney requested if I wanted my Divorce and my "Peace."
I complied.
My questions are :
What recourse do I have to end this matter of Alimony?
What are my chances of success?
How do I go about requesting the Order be vacated?
What evidence should I present?
Where can I find statistics of NC Alimony (i.e.) the number of those paying permenent Alimony and the income of those persons etc?
Any helpful Case Law would also be appreciated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated

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Are you overlooking the fact that what she is getting in alimony was possibly awarded as her % of your USMC retirement (which after X amount of years the spouse is entitled to 1/2 of regardless of if you stay married?) If that is the case- it usually is awarded until death or re-marriage...in your case it only specifies death.

I waived this when I divorced my USMC husband- I'm sure his new wife is relieved. But I was told by counsel that I was 'legally' entitled to it. I just found it absurd and unfair morally.

comparator said:

Where did he say he AGREED to anything. You say it was court ordered so therefore I assume this was not an agreement but in fact there was ahearing, evidence presented and the JUDGE made the decision.
If that's true then most states permit either party to go back due to a change in circumstances with discovery and another decision would then be made.
Belize need not respond .......your opinions and input are useless to those seeking advice.

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And I would suggest you be very careful in further exchanges on this forum.

casa said:

Are you overlooking the fact that what she is getting in alimony was possibly awarded as her % of your USMC retirement (which after X amount of years the spouse is entitled to 1/2 of regardless of if you stay married?) If that is the case- it usually is awarded until death or re-marriage...in your case it only specifies death.

I waived this when I divorced my USMC husband- I'm sure his new wife is relieved. But I was told by counsel that I was 'legally' entitled to it. I just found it absurd and unfair morally.

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There is no entitlement under law for a spouse or former spouse to any percentage of a military member's retirement, regardless of the number of years they were married. Please read the US Former Spouse Protection Act. What is allowed is that military retired pay can be treated by state courts as marital property subject to division like a 401k, house equity, etc. The percentage would depend on overlap of the marriage and active duty. Many spouses waive their interest in this "marital property" for other property considerations.

IrishLady47 said:

There is no entitlement under law for a spouse or former spouse to any percentage of a military member's retirement, regardless of the number of years they were married. Please read the US Former Spouse Protection Act. What is allowed is that military retired pay can be treated by state courts as marital property subject to division like a 401k, house equity, etc. The percentage would depend on overlap of the marriage and active duty. Many spouses waive their interest in this "marital property" for other property considerations.

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That is incorrect~ I know from not only own personal experience, but also from when I volunteered at base legal.

What you just said is contradictory. First you say, "There is no entitlement under law for a spouse or former spouse to any percentage of a military member's retirement"...then you say, "What is allowed is that military retired pay can be treated by state courts as marital property subject to division like a 401k, house equity, etc."

So you say there is no entitlement to ANY percentage of retirement pay- then you say retired pay can be treated as property subject to division.

I stand by my original question that "possibly" this is what occurred with the OP...He was married for X amount of time and pays alimony indefinately, which is "possibly" a % of his retirement awarded by agreement in their divorce.

Remember OP agreed to this and signed the order.

Let me be more explicit- there is no entitlement under Federal law for a spouse to be awarded a percentage of a military member's retired pay solely based upon the length of the marriage. Please read the Uniformed Services Former Spouse Protection Act. And, it is not contradictory to say it can be treated by state courts as property in a divorce settlement. Which means the former spouse may or may not get a part of the military retired pay depending upon the total property settlement. I know of more than one soldier who gave up his part of the house equity or waived his rights to her 401k plan to keep their full military retirement. I've seen at fault divorces where the spouse did not receive an award of the military retired pay. There is a difference between an entitlement and what may or may not be awarded in a court of law. I commend your volunteering at base legal; however, I think my 29 years of paid experience in interpreting military finance and personnel statutes and regulations make me just a little more qualified in this area.

Besides, OP was ordered to pay a flat rate of $200 in permanent alimony, he did not indicate the court order specifies the monetary source. I doubt it was awarded property settlement % of retired pay, the amount would have gone up over the years. But, regardless, he still has no legal basis to appeal either original court order or the divorce settlement he agreed to then. Permanent means permanent.