$280 (92 in 65) out-of-state in WI, trooper going 125, errors on citation

What is the name of your state? Kentucky

I'm 21, currently going to college in Kentucky. Clean prior record, never gotten so much as a warning. Over spring break I rented a car to visit my grandparents and girlfriend in Wisconsin and Minnesota, respectively. On my way home, I was pulled over about 10:00 pm on I-90 by a Wisconsin State Patrol trooper, who said he clocked me going 92 in a 65. He issued me a citation for $280, telling me if I could not pay it on the spot with a credit card he would take me down to the next service station and arrest me. I was cooperative with the officer the whole time, and while I was shocked at the whole ordeal, willingly paid the fine as I was not particularly interested in being arrested.

I am not (usually?) a fast driver, and find it unlikely that I was going 92. However, I was admittedly paying more attention to the road than staring at the little lines on the speedometer (the speedometer on the rental has marks at 60, 80, and 100, which I was still not used to since my car back home is marked every 10 miles). Conditions were excellent, but it was dark. When the officer asked how fast I thought I was going, I told him "70 something" (traffic had been going 75-85 the last time I looked at the speedometer, I was nervous, and that was the first thing that came to my mind). The officer reacted as if I was trying to BS him and said, "You gotta get closer than that." He seemed to have a problem with me the instant he walked over to my window. I got the feeling that he was hoping to bust me for drugs or something else, since he kept looking around and asking if I was transporting anything between there and Kentucky. He must have been disappointed that my record came up clean.

He also remarked: "When I flipped on my lights, you hit the brakes so hard that I nearly slammed into the back of you." ... I was in the right lane when he pulled me over, and had no idea he was even a cop until he was directly on my tail and turned his lights on. At the time I was just wondering what this guy was doing on my tail, and honestly may have even sped up a little just to get out of his way. I was definitely surprised when I saw the lights flash on, and pulled over as quickly - and safely, I thought - as I could. I am used to city driving, so when you want to stop you want to do it quickly - I didn't exactly invite him to travel a few feet behind me.

The officer said that he "had to go 125 just to catch up with you!" Now I had been going with traffic for the most part, passing slower cars and getting passed, so it was not like I was trying to rule the road. There is also no way I could have possibly been going more than 5 miles faster than any other car out there. Is it reasonable for a cop to go almost TWICE the limit to pull someone over who *may* be going 5 miles faster than traffic? And without his overhead lights on? I have no idea where he was when he clocked me, or how long he was following me, as I didn't know he was even there until he tailed me for a few moments and finally decided to flip on his lights. I had a long drive ahead of me and was not in any hurry. I had also seen two other state patrol cars in the median 10 minutes before I was pulled over (and another 3 or 4 in the next 30 minutes after – someone was making some money that night!), so it would have been foolish to be speeding intentionally. While I think it is unlikely that I was ever going 92, it is possible that the speedometer (which I was not used to) and the hills (this stretch of highway is largely downhill) may have gotten the best of me. I've never been a fan of cruise control, since I've always felt it is unsafe and allows the driver to become distracted, but I can tell you that after I was pulled over I figured out the cruise control on that car and kept it under 80 for the rest of the trip home. A little late, but cruise control is now my friend.

When I looked at the citation, it was clear that he listed the incorrect color of the vehicle: gray instead of blue - and no it wasn't a grayish blue. I had to find the vehicle in a dark parking garage several times on my trip, and there is no way to confuse the colors. He also listed the vehicle as having Wisconsin plates, when it had Kentucky plates. I realize these two errors are probably not enough to get the citation thrown out (although it sounds like it has happened before), but I am hoping it can help cast doubt in the officer's accuracy. It would concern me if he had to put out a call for a gray Ford with Wisconsin plates, when I was driving a blue Taurus with Kentucky plates (the model is also not listed on the citation, but maybe this is just how they do it in WI).

The officer told me that since I live out of state, I don't have to go to court unless I want to dispute the citation, and that if I did choose to dispute it, I could do a "phone trial". Does anyone here have any experience with a phone trial or have any information about how that works? My original court date was scheduled during my final exams (April), so I requested a continuance and it was rescheduled for later this month. The DA offered me a (rather weak) plea bargain by mail: an amended charge from 27 mph over to 23 mph over, and a reduction in the fine by less than $25, with the same point assessment that I would receive with the original charge. The points don't affect me at all, since from everything I have read, Kentucky doesn't transfer points from other states, and I am going to be a lot more careful next time I am in WI, so my driving privileges in WI should not be at risk. Also, since I have already paid the fine, I am not too concerned about that either, although it was a lot to swallow.

My main reason for even going through with the court process is to hopefully keep this off my record for insurance purposes. I figure it is worth gambling the $25 I could have saved by agreeing to the plea bargain, in exchange for a chance that 1) the officer doesn't show up, or 2) the judge is sympathetic to my case and I can either get it thrown out or reduced. I would be delighted if I could get it reduced to "defective speedometer" and let them keep the fine, but I am not sure how realistic that is with the original charge of 27 over.

I would appreciate any constructive comments or suggestions that pertain to my case as I have read many of the threads on this site and have seen some helpful advice. Any experience with phone trials is especially welcome. Thanks.

eaglefc said:

He issued me a citation for $280, telling me if I could not pay it on the spot with a credit card he would take me down to the next service station and arrest me. I was cooperative with the officer the whole time, and while I was shocked at the whole ordeal, willingly paid the fine as I was not particularly interested in being arrested

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This is highly irregular, I have never heard of being forced to pay on the spot, but I am not really that familiar with Wisconsin law either. That seems illegal to me and makes me wonder if you weren't the vicitim of some sort of scam with people impersonating cops to get your card number. First thing I would do is validate the ticket by calling the court, etc... If they have no record, cancel your card immediatly. That situation just sounds wrong to me, being forced to pay immediatly or go to jail? Doesn't sound legit, where is the due process? Someone else chime in please.

You were NOT the victim of a police impersonator scam. Impersonators don't go out and buy full police uniforms. Wisconsin State Troopers don't have plain clothes officers, but they do occasionally use unmarked vehicles.

The "errors" on the citation are NOT grounds for dismissal. If you base a defense solely on those, you'll be sorry.

It is permissible for the officer to exceed the speed limit to gather evidence of a speeding violation. If you base your defense on whether or not his doing so was reasonable, you'll be sorry.

The speed limit is 65. If you go to court and tell them that after being stopped, you made sure to keep your speed under 80, (15 over will still get you a ticket), you'll really be sorry.

Since you're from out-of-state, the officer has the right to have you post a bond in order to be released. The bond amount is the ticket fine amount. If you go to trial and win, that money is refunded to you.

In addition the fine and 6 points, being cited for 25 or more over the 55 or 65 mph limit carries a minimum 15 day license suspension.

Read that again. Yes, that's right. A two week license suspension.

If you do not have a driver's license status in Wisconsin, one will be created for you. After the two weeks are over, you'll have to go to a Wisconsin DMV office and pay a $50.00 reinstatement fee, otherwise you'll remain suspended here indefinitely. If you get caught driving under suspension, you could be subject to arrest, and your vehicle impounded.

The deal that the DA offered is pretty reasonable. The offer would take your speed below the suspension threshold, since that would affect your KY DL, even if the points wouldn't. The idea of asking for Defective Speedometer is a pipe dream. There's no way they'll reduce it that much.

Just to comment. The practice of demanding a credit card on the spot may be highly irregular in 98 percent of the country, but the Wisconsin State Patrol on I-90 in Rock and Dane counties, and on I-94 in Kenosha and Racine counties play by different rules. In fact, they were one of the first police forces in the nation to install wireless credit card machines in their patrol cars. And before they did that several years ago, they used to call in your credit card number and expiration date to the dispatcher via radio. Wisconsin, (especially I-94, I-90, and I-39 through southern Wisconsin) has some of the toughest and meanest traffic enforcement anywhere. Those interstates are heavily patrolled by the WSP in addition to being routinely patrolled by even stricter county sheriff's deputies using laser (mostly), radar, pacing and airplane. The best defense to traveling through Wisconsin, other then not speeding and not driving overnight, is to purchase a CB radio for your car, as the truckers are wonderful about giving the heads up and exact mile marker and direction of speed traps. Good luck.

ok, sorry for misleading you. I guess they actually can DO that.
Still sounds like extortion to me, but apparently its the law there.

Bcar1463 said:

Still sounds like extortion to me, but apparently its the law there.

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Why?

If you get arrested for any other crime, wouldn't you be taken to Jail, and made to post bond or bail to be released?

The courts have ruled that traffic stops are a type of legal detention or 'arrest'. Why should such a detention be subject to different rules than any other arrest?

The purpose of any bail or bond is only to guarantee your appearance in court. The courts set the bond dollar amount as what is reasonable to insure that appearance.

An out-of-state driver stopped for speeding would never be extradited back to the issuing state for failure to appear. Therefore, it's reasonable to make the bond amount equal to the fine amount on the citation. That way, if he doesn't show up, the bond amount is applied to the fine, and the case is closed.

There are agencies that don't bother with having out-of-staters post, they just issue FTA warrants, and suspend driving privileges through the DMV.

Which would you rather have happen... post bond at the time, or get arrested for FTA months or years later? Or have to hassle with your own state over an out-of-state license suspension?

"Impersonators don't go out and buy full police uniforms. Wisconsin State Troopers don't have plain clothes officers, but they do occasionally use unmarked vehicles. "

Actually, about 9 years ago, I was pulled over at 2 am coming home from a pirate ballgame. IT was a very desolate area. I wasnt speeding, wasnt drinking, wasnt weaving.....my boyfriend was sleeping and slumped in the seat, and I think the "cop" thought I was alone. ( It was not a marked car but had alternating headlights )

He said he pulled me over because he thought maybe I was tired...huh? Also asked if I was married or not..........he was wearing a uniform. I found out later, someone had been pulling over women in the area. Not really a cop. Also found out from a local state trooper that after 11 pm they are NEVER alone in a car, always 2 state troopers in the car. ( at least in this area ) It's scary that things like that happen. If you dont pull over you are in deep s***.

Sorry to be a bit off topic. But it brought the question to mind, how do you ever know its REALLY a cop pulling you over? Especially at nighttime and in dark desolate areas?

Curt581 said:

The purpose of any bail or bond is only to guarantee your appearance in court. The courts set the bond dollar amount as what is reasonable to insure that appearance.

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If that is a bail type deal that I guess that makes more sense. I was under the impression that they pulled you over and you paid the fine with your card and that was the end of it. Would kinda suck though if you didn't have a credit card on you. I can see where they are coming from legally anyway.

Thanks for the comments. I was a little suspicious when he threatened me with arrest two or three times if I could not pay with a CC, especially afterwards when I couldn't get ahold of anyone at the courthouse listed on the citation (apparently they changed all their numbers - I finally got a working number after they mailed me a notice of hearing). Everything else seemed legit though and there was heavy presence of other WSP along the interstate so I didn't think too much of it. Luckily I was carrying a CC or I would have been out of luck. The officer did mention that if I went to court and the charges were reduced or thrown out, that any difference in the fine would be credited to my CC.

Curt, your comments were helpful. I had a feeling about most of the things you mentioned but was not aware of the minimum 15 day suspension. As for staying under 80 the rest of the way, if I would have gone much slower than that I would have been run off the road! That is not something I plan on telling the judge, but just as a practical matter - on the rest of the trip I was passed by quite a few cops cruising well above that speed, and can't remember having to change lanes until I hit the cities. This is not a particularly slow route.

I lived in TX and TN, which both have 70 mph limits, for the last 10 years, and only got a KY license about a month before this trip, so it's taken me a while to get used to it - although this stop taught me to learn quick!