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Kraklaha

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Wisconsin

OK, this is my situation, hopefully i can get some good input. I got a call from a friend saying that he needed a ride home from work. Naturally, i hopped in my chevy POS and drove the 15 miles to pick him up. Just after i had gotten off of the highway i stopped at a red light on a divided road heading east bound to make a turn. There were about 4 rows of cars in 2 lanes waiting at this light. then myself behind another gentlemen in the left turn lane. The light turned green with a green arrow and all of my side of traffic entered the intersection and went whichever direction we were going and out of the corner of my vision i saw a city police car behind one other vehicle in the south bound left turn lane. I made my turn and went on down the road a bit, made a right turn to pick up my friend keeping an eye on where the police officer went (me looking young and driving a crappy car with bible verses painted on it, get some harrassment now and again). I got to where my friend works, get out of my car, go in and get him. We have a smoke outside before hopping in my hot car. This probably took approx. 12-15 minutes. We get in my car and and start to drive home. get on the little road in front of his work, turn left onto the main road, go for about 150 ft, then what do you know, flashing red and blues from nowhere. The police officer is acting like a major jerk, looks about maybe 4 or 5 years older than me. Me, being a salesman, am very nice and cooperative. He tell me and my friend to both fork over our licenses and wait there and tells us as we start to light up a smoke that we cant light our cigarettes (us being 2 pack a day smokers in the middle of a stressful cituation were very frustrated with this). The cop gets back and hands me 2 tickets and my friend one. He said there was a problem with my registration (i had not but a month ago fought a ticket and won for this same charge in the same county) i told him and showed him my documentation from the Assistant DA and he said "Well, take it up in court and call someone to come pick each of you up". My friend is fuming and i ask him what he got a ticket for. He showed me a ticket for driving after revocation even though he wasnt in the driver's seat and wasnt driving. I asked the police officer why he had written my friend a ticket, and he didnt answer. By then, another officer had shown up and Cop A asks us to get out of the vehicle and stand on the sidewalk. Cop A then searched my car with my permission while Cop B stood next to us on the sidewalk. Cop A through the garbage in my car all over the place then said well, i didnt find anything illegal in here, then allowed my friend that i had called to get in my car and drive us home.

Now here are my questions about this...

1) Why did he pick my car out of all the others at that intersection to pull over then drive up and down the street waiting for me, was this an example of profiling because i was driving a christian car that looked like crap and i myself looked young?

2) Why did he give my friend in the car with me a ticket, and was that legal?

3) Should he have given me the tickets he did when i presented him proof that he was wrong?
 


CdwJava

Senior Member
I can't understand why your friend got a ticket for driving unless the officer claims he saw him driving before or after the stop.

As for the registration, that's between the court and you. If the information the officer has says it is bad, then he can act on that.

The search of the car is highly suspect unless he had some other cause - perhaps he was going to impound it and the search was incident to an impound inventory.

The place to contest a cite is in court. Presenting an officer with "proof" that he is wrong (like showing him court documents) is not likely to change anything. We don't usuaully see court documents related to traffic registration, and, frankly, we aren't going to care. if the vehicle is not registered, it is not registered.

As for why he picked you out, who can say?

- Carl
 

chipdouglas

Junior Member
The police officer is acting like a major jerk...
Though I respect the contribution police officers theoretically make, I've never had any other type of experience but the one you're describing. I've had a gun pointed at my face for doing 42 in a 30 in Seattle, been called "idiot," "moron," "stupid," "crazy," and even "Tex" (don't know why). I can't help you but I can say it would be nice to finally run into an officer who is less emotionally involved in each traffic stop; who doesn't take routine stops as an egregious personal offense.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
I can't speak for all cops or even your contacts. However, I would certainly like to point out that there is no such animal as a "routine" traffic stop. With more officers being assaulted and killed on traffic stops then most any other act of the police, I have to say that it is one of the most dangerous acts we conduct. And as a high frequency, low priority event, it also tends to result in officers lowering their guard when they shouldn't - resulting in more injuries and fatalities than it should.

And I doubt the officer pulled his gun solely because you were speeding. He may have been wrong in doing so, but I guarantee it had little to do with doing 42 MPH.

- Carl
 

lwpat

Senior Member
He said there was a problem with my registration (i had not but a month ago fought a ticket and won for this same charge in the same county
Then why have you not corrected your registration? I would seem that a month would be sufficient, instead you keep inviting your own problems.

It is not unusual to run a couple of tag numbers while sitting at a light and yours can back with a hit. The officer obviously thought your friend was driving when he first saw the car. Enter a plea of not guilty and do a Trial by Declaration. A letter from where he works stating that you picked him up and he was not driving along with a similar letter from you will probably do the trick. Be sure to have them both notarized.
 

Curt581

Senior Member
lwpat said:
Enter a plea of not guilty and do a Trial by Declaration. A letter from where he works stating that you picked him up and he was not driving along with a similar letter from you will probably do the trick. Be sure to have them both notarized.
There is no such thing as a Trial by Declaration in Wisconsin, even for civil forfeiture traffic infractions. You can stipulate to the charge in writing, or an attorney can appear on your behalf.

Drivng on a revoked licence is a misdemeanor crime, and requires a personal appearance.
 

chipdouglas

Junior Member
CdwJava said:
I can't speak for all cops or even your contacts. However, I would certainly like to point out that there is no such animal as a "routine" traffic stop. With more officers being assaulted and killed on traffic stops then most any other act of the police, I have to say that it is one of the most dangerous acts we conduct. And as a high frequency, low priority event, it also tends to result in officers lowering their guard when they shouldn't - resulting in more injuries and fatalities than it should.
Your point here is that the officer who pulled me over for the 42 in a 30 probably had reasonable cause to draw his weapon and point it at my head outside the window. You're right--it's likely that he suspected, whether rationally or not, that I was a threat enough to warrant drawing a weapon--but you're right about this thing that isn't even really the point.

What can't be explained away is the fact that, but for one time, I have not been stopped by an officer without also being insulted and name-called. If an officer thinks what I did was "stupid," or even that I'm "crazy," then fine--but to start throwing out personal insults like "moron," "idiot" and the like is unprofessional, an abuse of power, a dereliction of duty, and a gross emotional over-investment where no bad attitude was due. That is the point.
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
chipdouglas said:
You're right--it's likely that he suspected, whether rationally or not, that I was a threat enough to warrant drawing a weapon--but you're right about this thing that isn't even really the point.
You're the one that brought it up.


What can't be explained away is the fact that, but for one time, I have not been stopped by an officer without also being insulted and name-called.
I cannot speak to that. It could be that you copped a similar attitude to them. It could be that you have been unlucky enough to catch officers on either a bad day or ones that are just twits.


If an officer thinks what I did was "stupid," or even that I'm "crazy," then fine--but to start throwing out personal insults like "moron," "idiot" and the like is unprofessional, an abuse of power, a dereliction of duty, and a gross emotional over-investment where no bad attitude was due. That is the point.
"Unprofessional"? Yes. "abuse of power" or "dereliction of duty"? Not likely.

If the attitude was not prmpted by your actions or comments, then I cannot explain why they might have said that to you. But if this is a frequent occurrence (being stopped and insulted) I would suggest that it might have something to do with your demeanor or commentary when they contact you.

If it is not a frequent occurrence, then your experience is likely a statistical anomaly.

- Carl
 

chipdouglas

Junior Member
I call it an abuse of power because as a member of law enforcement he knows I cannot respond to his insults in a warranted manner without legal repercussions. He takes advantage of this, knowing that if I were to play his game of name-calling that he could up what would have otherwise been my punishment. For example, when I got a Reckless, I knew that to respond to the officer's insults with insults of my own would have gotten me arrested. Since I didn't throw mud back at him, I was allowed to drive home. This is what I'm talking about.

Dereliction is "willful neglect, as of duty or principle." I think of it like so because insulting one of those people he is supposed to be protecting and serving--or even administering punishment to--is far outside the scope of his employment duties, and a neglection of law enforcement principles.

As for my attitude, I have been nothing but profusely kind to the officers who stop me, going so far as to meet their insults with compliments. Of course bad behavior can inflame the problem, but since I am hardly guilty of this, it was more likely a combination of my age and car that drew the outrageous scorn of the officers I have run into.

I don't purport to speak about law enforcement at large when I say every cop I've run into has been a power trip ego-maniac, and it very well may be very different on a national scale, but virtually every cop I've run into has fit that description to a tee. Maybe it could be a general rule, maybe it's a local trend, or maybe I've just been unlucky. The point is, those are my experiences.
 
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marbol

Member
chipdouglas said:
.... What can't be explained away is the fact that, but for one time, I have not been stopped by an officer without also being insulted and name-called. If an officer thinks what I did was "stupid," or even that I'm "crazy," then fine--but to start throwing out personal insults like "moron," "idiot" and the like is unprofessional, an abuse of power, a dereliction of duty, and a gross emotional over-investment where no bad attitude was due. That is the point.
That is an abuse. I agree.

But whenever I am stopped, I've always, and I mean, always been treated with a hell of a lot of respect. Now, I'm not calling you a liar, and it's very possible that I might run into one of the cops like you have sometime soon. But for now, I have to say I'm very surprised.

In absolutely ALL of my stops in my life, all of the cops have been extremely nice to me. Many let me off with a warning. The ones that don't, call me "sir" or say "please" and "thank you." Every one of them explain to me as soon as they see me about why they stopped me.

I've been stopped in Texas and in Kansas. Maybe they are just nicer in those states, I don't know. :) Somehow, I don't think so.

I do make it a point to smile and talk politely. But I've also said my mind before. Once when an officer asked me where I was going, I said I was going "North" but I didn't say it with an attitude. I simply said that I do not wish to tell. That officer was STILL extremely nice and professional.

I know that there are bad officers as well as bad people in any profession. But I've got to say that I've not seen many cops that were bad. (Except in Mexico - but that is a COMPLETE different story).
 

CdwJava

Senior Member
chipdouglas said:
I call it an abuse of power because as a member of law enforcement he knows I cannot respond to his insults in a warranted manner without legal repercussions.
"Abuse of power" is a legal conclusion that is not quite as broad as your definition, but I understand what you are trying to say. Though, technically, any repercussions you faced for simply expressing your mind may not - by themselves - be legal ones. I cannot arrest you for telling to me my mother was a female dog ... I also cannot arrest you for tell me to fornicate with myself. But I CAN cite you for an additional violation I was originally going to pass on. Is it "right"? Maybe not. But it would be legal.

Dereliction is "willful neglect, as of duty or principle." I think of it like so because insulting one of those people he is supposed to be protecting and serving--or even administering punishment to--is far outside the scope of his employment duties, and a neglection of law enforcement principles.
This conduct would be described in the agency's policies. For my agency it would not be "dereliction of duty" but it might be considered "unprofessional conduct".

I don't purport to speak about law enforcement at large when I say every cop I've run into has been a power trip ego-maniac, and it very well may be very different on a national scale, but virtually every cop I've run into has fit that description to a tee. Maybe it could be a general rule, maybe it's a local trend, or maybe I've just been unlucky. The point is, those are my experiences.
Okay. It's just statistically very unlikely.

- Carl
 

chipdouglas

Junior Member
CdwJava said:
any repercussions you faced for simply expressing your mind may not - by themselves - be legal ones. I cannot arrest you for telling to me my mother was a female dog ... I also cannot arrest you for tell me to fornicate with myself. But I CAN cite you for an additional violation I was originally going to pass on. Is it "right"? Maybe not. But it would be legal.

This conduct would be described in the agency's policies. For my agency it would not be "dereliction of duty" but it might be considered "unprofessional conduct".
Semantics, and they're wholly aside the point. I was skating on thin ice judging from the seething fury of the officer in charge of my Reckless. It was within his rights to arrest me, though my offense was so petty that to do so would have been massive overkill. He needed to vent the week's anger at me, so I sat through a firestorm of name-calling, knowing that if I were to return the harsh language I was liable to get arrested--not because my offense made an arrest appropriate, but because the officer did not like my attitude and wanted to "get back at me." You are calling me on loosely relevant word games, but you said you understand so I guess there is no more contention.

It's a rule, it's a trend, it's an anomaly... it's not important. The most important point stands--all of MY dealings with cops have been like this, even at times when I was the victim and not the offender.

Respectfully...
 

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