ketchupjoe27
Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? California
We are in the process of starting up a small business in the city of Santa Monica with hopes of expanding into other areas of the Los Angeles market. Our goal is to bring free Texas Hold'em into bars and restaurants in order to increase traffic in aforementioned bar. Our primary sources of revenue will be from bars/restaurants and sponsors such as alcoholic beverage companies, food companies, casino's, and other entertainment industries.
Summation of business
• Player entry is free, players play for points. Those points are redeemable for items on web site such as promotional hats and tee-shirts, poker chips, cards, and poker tables.
• Items can also be used for buy in into regional tournaments for cash prizes.
• We would like to promote sales in bars buy of alcohol buy playing games such as raffles. Raffle tickets would be given on purchase of food and alcohol and would be we would raffle off more chips, drink tabs, food tabs, etc.
We would like an estimate on how much it would cost to answer and do the following and we would like to know what is the best way to approach a lawyer to save his time and my money. And we would like to know if a lawyer is appropriate.
• Identify licenses and taxes that need to be paid in order to do this in the City of Santa Monica
• Find out which items we are trying to do are legal, which ones require permits, and which ones are completely off limits.
• Structure our business so we can do most or all of the preceding and be able to effectively convey this to bar/restaurant owners that we are completely legitimate business.
I have contacted the Alcholic beverage controll people and got some info, and contacted the California gaming commision. They say it should be legal... sort of if we have the appropraite licenses and abide by some rules which have been vague at best. But I want a definante answer so that I can approach my customers(bars) with confidence that we will not get them in trouble.
Below is some applicable laws regarding gaming in CA. I believe that we are not gaming and shouldn't have to buy a CA license.
Business and Professions Code (California State Law):
19850. Every person who, either as owner, lessee, or employee,
whether for hire or not, either solely or in conjunction with others,
deals, operates, carries on, conducts, maintains, or exposes for
play any controlled game in this state, or who receives, directly or
indirectly, any compensation or reward, or any percentage or share of
the money or property played, for keeping, running, or carrying on
any controlled game in this state, shall apply for and obtain from
the commission, and shall thereafter maintain, a valid state gambling
license, key employee license, or work permit, as specified in this
chapter. In any criminal prosecution for violation of this section,
the punishment shall be as provided in Section 337j of the Penal
Code.
A controlled game as defined by Business and Professions Code 19805:
(f) "Controlled game" means any controlled game, as defined by
subdivision (e) of Section 337j of the Penal Code.
Section 337j of the California Penal Code
337j. (a) It is unlawful for any person, as owner, lessee, or
employee, whether for hire or not, either solely or in conjunction
with others, to do any of the following without having first procured
and thereafter maintained in effect all federal, state, and local
licenses required by law:
(1) To deal, operate, carry on, conduct, maintain, or expose for
play in this state any controlled game.
(2) To receive, directly or indirectly, any compensation or reward
or any percentage or share of the revenue, for keeping, running, or
carrying on any controlled game.
(3) To manufacture, distribute, or repair any gambling equipment
within the boundaries of this state, or to receive, directly or
indirectly, any compensation or reward for the manufacture,
distribution, or repair of any gambling equipment within the
boundaries of this state.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly permit any
controlled game to be conducted, operated, dealt, or carried on in
any house or building or other premises that he or she owns or
leases, in whole or in part, if that activity is undertaken by a
person who is not licensed as required by state law, or by an
employee of that person.
(c) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly permit any gambling
equipment to be manufactured, stored, or repaired in any house or
building or other premises that the person owns or leases, in whole
or in part, if that activity is undertaken by a person who is not
licensed as required by state law, or by an employee of that person.
(d) Any person who violates, attempts to violate, or conspires to
violate this section shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than five
thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(e) (1) As used in this section, "controlled game" means any poker
or Pai Gow game, and any other game played with cards or tiles, or
both, and approved by the Division of Gambling Control, and any game
of chance, including any gambling device, played for currency, check,
credit, or any other thing of value that is not prohibited and made
unlawful by statute or local ordinance.
(2) As used in this section, "controlled game" does not include
any of the following:
(A) The game of bingo conducted pursuant to Section 326.5.
(B) Parimutuel racing on horse races regulated by the California
Horse Racing Board.
(C) Any lottery game conducted by the California State Lottery.
(D) Games played with cards in private homes or residences, in
which no person makes money for operating the game, except as a
player.
(f) This subdivision is intended to be dispositive of the law
relating to the collection of player fees in gambling establishments.
A fee may not be calculated as a fraction or percentage of wagers
made or winnings earned. The amount of fees charged for all wagers
shall be determined prior to the start of play of any hand or round.
However, the gambling establishment may waive collection of the fee
or portion of the fee in any hand or round of play after the hand or
round has begun pursuant to the published rules of the game and the
notice provided to the public. The actual collection of the fee may
occur before or after the start of play. Ample notice shall be
provided to the patrons of gambling establishments relating to the
assessment of fees. Flat fees on each wager may be assessed at
different collection rates, but no more than three collection rates
may be established per table. However, if the gambling establishment
waives its collection fee, this fee does not constitute one of the
three collection rates.
We are in the process of starting up a small business in the city of Santa Monica with hopes of expanding into other areas of the Los Angeles market. Our goal is to bring free Texas Hold'em into bars and restaurants in order to increase traffic in aforementioned bar. Our primary sources of revenue will be from bars/restaurants and sponsors such as alcoholic beverage companies, food companies, casino's, and other entertainment industries.
Summation of business
• Player entry is free, players play for points. Those points are redeemable for items on web site such as promotional hats and tee-shirts, poker chips, cards, and poker tables.
• Items can also be used for buy in into regional tournaments for cash prizes.
• We would like to promote sales in bars buy of alcohol buy playing games such as raffles. Raffle tickets would be given on purchase of food and alcohol and would be we would raffle off more chips, drink tabs, food tabs, etc.
We would like an estimate on how much it would cost to answer and do the following and we would like to know what is the best way to approach a lawyer to save his time and my money. And we would like to know if a lawyer is appropriate.
• Identify licenses and taxes that need to be paid in order to do this in the City of Santa Monica
• Find out which items we are trying to do are legal, which ones require permits, and which ones are completely off limits.
• Structure our business so we can do most or all of the preceding and be able to effectively convey this to bar/restaurant owners that we are completely legitimate business.
I have contacted the Alcholic beverage controll people and got some info, and contacted the California gaming commision. They say it should be legal... sort of if we have the appropraite licenses and abide by some rules which have been vague at best. But I want a definante answer so that I can approach my customers(bars) with confidence that we will not get them in trouble.
Below is some applicable laws regarding gaming in CA. I believe that we are not gaming and shouldn't have to buy a CA license.
Business and Professions Code (California State Law):
19850. Every person who, either as owner, lessee, or employee,
whether for hire or not, either solely or in conjunction with others,
deals, operates, carries on, conducts, maintains, or exposes for
play any controlled game in this state, or who receives, directly or
indirectly, any compensation or reward, or any percentage or share of
the money or property played, for keeping, running, or carrying on
any controlled game in this state, shall apply for and obtain from
the commission, and shall thereafter maintain, a valid state gambling
license, key employee license, or work permit, as specified in this
chapter. In any criminal prosecution for violation of this section,
the punishment shall be as provided in Section 337j of the Penal
Code.
A controlled game as defined by Business and Professions Code 19805:
(f) "Controlled game" means any controlled game, as defined by
subdivision (e) of Section 337j of the Penal Code.
Section 337j of the California Penal Code
337j. (a) It is unlawful for any person, as owner, lessee, or
employee, whether for hire or not, either solely or in conjunction
with others, to do any of the following without having first procured
and thereafter maintained in effect all federal, state, and local
licenses required by law:
(1) To deal, operate, carry on, conduct, maintain, or expose for
play in this state any controlled game.
(2) To receive, directly or indirectly, any compensation or reward
or any percentage or share of the revenue, for keeping, running, or
carrying on any controlled game.
(3) To manufacture, distribute, or repair any gambling equipment
within the boundaries of this state, or to receive, directly or
indirectly, any compensation or reward for the manufacture,
distribution, or repair of any gambling equipment within the
boundaries of this state.
(b) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly permit any
controlled game to be conducted, operated, dealt, or carried on in
any house or building or other premises that he or she owns or
leases, in whole or in part, if that activity is undertaken by a
person who is not licensed as required by state law, or by an
employee of that person.
(c) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly permit any gambling
equipment to be manufactured, stored, or repaired in any house or
building or other premises that the person owns or leases, in whole
or in part, if that activity is undertaken by a person who is not
licensed as required by state law, or by an employee of that person.
(d) Any person who violates, attempts to violate, or conspires to
violate this section shall be punished by imprisonment in a county
jail for not more than one year, or by a fine of not more than five
thousand dollars ($5,000), or by both that imprisonment and fine.
(e) (1) As used in this section, "controlled game" means any poker
or Pai Gow game, and any other game played with cards or tiles, or
both, and approved by the Division of Gambling Control, and any game
of chance, including any gambling device, played for currency, check,
credit, or any other thing of value that is not prohibited and made
unlawful by statute or local ordinance.
(2) As used in this section, "controlled game" does not include
any of the following:
(A) The game of bingo conducted pursuant to Section 326.5.
(B) Parimutuel racing on horse races regulated by the California
Horse Racing Board.
(C) Any lottery game conducted by the California State Lottery.
(D) Games played with cards in private homes or residences, in
which no person makes money for operating the game, except as a
player.
(f) This subdivision is intended to be dispositive of the law
relating to the collection of player fees in gambling establishments.
A fee may not be calculated as a fraction or percentage of wagers
made or winnings earned. The amount of fees charged for all wagers
shall be determined prior to the start of play of any hand or round.
However, the gambling establishment may waive collection of the fee
or portion of the fee in any hand or round of play after the hand or
round has begun pursuant to the published rules of the game and the
notice provided to the public. The actual collection of the fee may
occur before or after the start of play. Ample notice shall be
provided to the patrons of gambling establishments relating to the
assessment of fees. Flat fees on each wager may be assessed at
different collection rates, but no more than three collection rates
may be established per table. However, if the gambling establishment
waives its collection fee, this fee does not constitute one of the
three collection rates.