Katrina Chaos

What is the name of your state? Chaos
Can people in the hurricane stricken please check in when you can?

The news of this is beyond belief.

Storm Surge 25-29' high like a Tsunami, Camile was only 22'.

Broken levee's.

Flooding, water full of everything that was and is no more, homes scattered like kindling..

Dead bodies.

No electricity.

No phones.

No Water.

No food.

Hot, humid.

Looters taking anything left food ok but TV's, Bling and GUNS, then shhoting at the National Guard as they come to evacuate them from the Superdome....

What a chaotic situation! Much, much worse than Hurricane Andrew. I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback, but if it were not for the local people organizing with leaders stepping forward and using the news stations for communicating/relaying info to the outside, thousands rather than hundreds would have died from Andrew.

It took much, much longer for the federal gov't to show up in Miami afterwards. That happened only after the head of EOC said "Where's the Calvary" about a week after Daddy Pres. Bush said he'd send help.

Yes, people did and still need to be rescued. The people, especially in New Orleans, needed military leaders on loud speakers directing them. It looks like it's just too late for it now.

BlondiePB said:

What a chaotic situation! Much, much worse than Hurricane Andrew. I hate to be a Monday morning quarterback, but if it were not for the local people organizing with leaders stepping forward and using the news stations for communicating/relaying info to the outside, thousands rather than hundreds would have died from Andrew.

It took much, much longer for the federal gov't to show up in Miami afterwards. That happened only after the head of EOC said "Where's the Calvary" about a week after Daddy Pres. Bush said he'd send help.

Yes, people did and still need to be rescued. The people, especially in New Orleans, needed military leaders on loud speakers directing them. It looks like it's just too late for it now.

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Many left before it struck, many stayed because they survived Camile and figured wrong.

Apparently, they are sending Blackhawk Helicopters to the Superdome and unloading troops in addition to busses to take them to TX, Evacuation stopped for the time being. More mobile morgues ordered, we had people leave here to go and help, looks like many LA children will go to school in TX for at least 2 months, Perhaps the MS kids will go to FL?

Marines were evacuating people in Amtracks because they could get into flooded areas.

Good news, all power restored to northwest FL.

Also, a lot of the people that stayed were impoverished people who had no transportation and/or had no money to fill their vehicles with gasoline. There's currently a huge fire in New Orleans now.

I heard FL will be taking some people. There's a lot of military bases closed that could be used to house the evacuees. Did you see the buses sent by a private organization to get patients out of a hospital to only to have it commandeered to rescue telephone company workers?

These stranded people are still going up to news casters asking them where should they go? What's the big deal in someone in charge telling the news reporters to tell standed people that they need to go to the superdome or to some other point in the city where they can be picked up? These people in charge do watch the news casters reports and know what is happening.

What's the big deal with bringing food and water to the part of the highway where people are congrugating when you see police cruisers etc. just going by? What's the big deal in sending military staffed trucks down in the city with food and water? Simple things like this are just things that can be done.

Just checking in on my FIL behalf. He lives in Slidell, LA. The whole area was destroyed. He got out before it hit and at the moment has no idea of the damage cause he can't go home and hasn't been able to contact anyone in the area to get an idea if his house is even standing. Right now he is in Florida with his brother.

BlondiePB said:

What's the big deal with bringing food and water to the part of the highway where people are congrugating when you see police cruisers etc. just going by? What's the big deal in sending military staffed trucks down in the city with food and water? Simple things like this are just things that can be done.

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It is not that simple they have tried that and the some of the people are being very violent to get the water/food.

They have even attacked police and military personnel while they were trying to evacuate the victims.

Crazed98 said:

It is not that simple they have tried that and the some of the people are being very violent to get the water/food.

They have even attacked police and military personnel while they were trying to evacuate the victims.

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The have to have a place to drop the supplies and someone to distribute the food and water and difficult when being shot at. Communications and lack thereof is a big problem, rumors and assumptions complicate things even further. Were people prepared, no, was the state and local governments ready, no.
When asked on TV the Gov of LA couldn't say when she asked for help beyond 1400 national guard and was caught off guard by the breaking of the levee and the tidal surge, they thought New Orleanes was spared at first. It takes time to get the help to the people needing it. In CA we are encouraged to prepare for earthquakes, to have supplies ready for an emergency including drinking water etc until rescue help arrives. They make 1 gal bottles of water with handles that are easy to carry, if people with a warning of the hurricane didn't bring water with them, it makes you wonder what they were thinking. It is much different than being caught unexpectedly by an earthquake. If the Superbowl and convention center were designated shelters for those who couldn't evacuate, why didn't they have water ready when they knew there was a hurricane comming?

Crazed98 said:

It is not that simple they have tried that and the some of the people are being very violent to get the water/food.

They have even attacked police and military personnel while they were trying to evacuate the victims.

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Apparently the police assisting the persons at the convention center last night were called away because of an attack at the water facility, without water, people die

Here are suggestions re survival kits.

http://www.tampagov.net/dept_Public_Works/emergency_prep/disaster_supply_kit.asp
Hurricane Survival Kit

One of the most important tools for emergency preparedness is your Disaster Supplies Kit. You'll need provisions to carry you through a week or more after the storm. Remember, there may be no electricity or clean water for days. Downed trees and other hurricane related debris blocking the roads will keep you from traveling far. Below are the most important items for your Disaster Supply Kit. Stock up today; store them in a water-resistant container; and replenish as necessary, especially at the beginning of the hurricane season – June1.

* Two weeks supply of prescription medicines
* Two weeks supply of non-perishable/special dietary foods. Buy plenty of nonperishable foods, because there won't be any refrigeration.
* Drinking water/containers: 1 gallon per person per day for two weeks. It's a good idea to sterilize the bathtub and fill it with water just before the storm.
* Flashlights and batteries for each member of the family
* Portable radio and (7 sets) batteries
* First aid book and kit including bandages, antiseptic, tape, compress, non aspirin pain reliever, anti-diarrhea medication
* Mosquito repellent and citronella candles
* Two coolers (one to keep food; the other to go get the ice)
* Plastic tarp for roof/window repair, screening, tools, nails, etc.
* Water purification kits (tablets, chlorine (plain) and iodine)
* Infant necessities (medication, sterile water, diapers, ready formula, bottles)
* Clean up supplies (mop, buckets, towels, disinfectant)
* Camera and film
* Non-electric can opener
* Extra batteries for camera, portable TV & lamps, etc.
* Plastic trash bags
* Toilet paper, paper towels and pre-moistened towelettes, eating utensils, masking tape and zip-lock bags to keep valuables safe from water.

If you evacuate you also should take:
# Pillows, blankets, sleeping bags or air mattresses
# Extra clothing, shoes, eyeglasses, raingear, etc.
# Folding chairs, lawn chairs or cots
# Personal hygiene items (toothbrush, toothpaste, deodorant, etc.)
# Quiet games, books, playing cards and favorite toys for children
# Important papers (drivers license, special medical information, insurance policies and property inventories)
Precious commodities before and after a storm:
# Gas
# Cash (With no power, banks may be closed, checks and credit cards unaccepted, and ATMs may not be operational).
# Charcoal, wooden matches and grill
# Ice

http://www.ceri.memphis.edu/public/survival.shtml
Earthquake Survival Kits
SURVIVAL SUPPLIES:

# Water-2 quarts to 1 gallon per person, per day.
# First Aid Kit-ample, and freshly stocked.
# First Aid Manual-know how to use it.
# Food-canned or individually packaged;precooked, requiring minimum heat and water. Consider infants, pets, and other special dietary requirements.
# Critical medication, extra eyeglasses
# Can opener
# Blankets
# Radio-portable battery operated, spare batteries
# Critical medication and eyeglasses, contact cases and supplies
# Fire Extinguisher-dry chemical, type ABC
# Flashlight-spare batteries and bulbs
# Watch or clock-battery or spring wound. COOKING:
# Barbeque-use outdoors ONLY-charcoal and lighter, or Sterno stove
# Plastic bags-various sizes, sealable
# Pots-at least two
# Paper plates, plastic utensils, and paper towels SANITATION
# Large plastic trash bags-for trash, waste, water protection
# Ground cloth
# Large trash cans
# Hand soap, liquid detergent, shampoo
# Toothpaste, toothbrushes, dental floss
# Deodorant
# Feminine supplies
# Infant supplies
# Toilet paper
# Powdered chlorinated lime-to add to sewage to disinfect and keep away insects.
# Newspapers-to wrap waste, garbage; may also be used for warmth.

SAFETY
# Heavy shoes for every family member
# heavy gloves for every person cleaning debris
# candles
# Matches-dipped in wax and kept in waterproof container
# Knife-sharp, or razor blades
# Garden hose-for siphoning and fire fighting
# Clothes-complete change kept dry

TOOLS
# Axe
# Shovel
# Broom
# Crescent wrench-for turning off gas main
# Screwdrivers
# Pliers
# Hammer
# Rope or bailing wire
# Plastic tape
# Pen and paper

Mini Survival Kit for Automobile
# Non-perishable food-store in coffee cans
# Boiled water
# First aid kit and manual
# Fire extinguisher
# Blanket
# Sealable plastic bags
# Flashlight-spare fresh batteries and bulb
# Critical medication, extra eyeglasses
# Tools-screwdriver, pliers, wire, knife
# Short rubber hose
# Pre-moistened towelettes
# Feminine supplies
# Sturdy shoes and gloves

Your emergency supplies should be adequate for at least 72 hours (3 days).

A 10-day supply of water, food, and medicine is recommended.

The problem is the relief took to long to get there. People there have lost everything houses, personal belongs, and in some cases family members.
Now they are forced to be forced together like cattle.

Even though it is in their best interset they do not care. Some of these people have weapons and are being extremely violent and that is why the NG is being called to help enforce the law so these people can be brought aid.

Survival kits are all well and good but how are you supposed to keep all that stuff with you when your house is being hit with a hurricane. Plus as Blondie said some of these people were to poor to get out of the city they definatly would not have been able to buy a survival kit.

Crazed98 said:

It is not that simple they have tried that and the some of the people are being very violent to get the water/food.

They have even attacked police and military personnel while they were trying to evacuate the victims.

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If you have seen the very latest, Crazed98, what I said was that simple. Helicopters did drop off supplies on the highway. When the crowd got too much, the helicopter dropped supplies hovering above the people.

Did you see the swat teams and other law and order teams go through the city to secure it, then the National Guard come in for reinforcement and street security, and then the convoys of food and water for the people at the convention center?

Did you see the "bigwigs" in the federal gov't say why didn't the relief teams get down into the city and go to the people when we saw what was happening on the news reporters broadcasts?

I don't know if you've ever been involved with or have been close to these types of disasters and their relief. When FEMA and the Red Cross arrive, centers are set up. The problem is with people who cannot get to the centers, which causes tremendous problems that are not addressed.

Let's put it this way, last year, the closest relief center for where I live was 4-5 miles away. As long as roads are clear, I have gas in my car to get there, I can make it to a relief center for necessities when my 3-4 day supply is exhausted. When people cannot get to a relief center, the relief must go to the people as is just what these people figured out 4 days later and is now what is happening.

The hoodlums had time to organize and terrorize. While local and federal officials either looked the other way or did not think that this was also important by sending more troops immediately, things got worse than they had to. This stuff started happening Tuesday. It took until yesterday, Thursday, for the gov't to figure out that officials needed to go into the city and that more were needed.

BlondiePB said:

What's the big deal with bringing food and water to the part of the highway where people are congrugating when you see police cruisers etc. just going by? What's the big deal in sending military staffed trucks down in the city with food and water? Simple things like this are just things that can be done.

Click to expand...

Actually, it IS a big deal ... and it just isn't as simple as driving down a street and tossing food and blankets to anyone you see.

The amount of organization to direct the response necessary for ANY emergency is quite daunting ... for an effort of THIS magnitude where resources have to come from across the country. The organization needed is tremendous.

Experience has taught us that simply dropping off food and water to the first people we see is ineffective. Not only does it result in riots, chaos, thefts and hoarding, it is ineffective in distributing the goods and services needed.

The things you mention are starting to be done ... but it takes time. Resources need to marshal in staging areas, they need to be organized, and the response needs to be methodical to be effective. Anything less is a waste of time, manpower and resources.

I remember the so-called Rodney King riots of 1992 in Los Angeles ... it took more than two days for outside aid to be effectively organized for a response to that city. And the need for aid was infinitesimal when compared to the coordination and organization needed for a response to New Orleans.

Also remember that the main coonduit through southern LA is gone ... there is only one main conduit into the city remaining, and it is from the north, I believe. And from that point access to the rest of the city is very limited.

Then there is the practical considerations ... food and water for the rescuers ... gasoline for cars, trucks, boats and helicopters ... supply trucks for the above equipment ... quarters to house rescuers and evacuees ... and a host of other things that I can quote from the OES manuals.

Too many people assume it is just "that simple". It is not. I am sure that things could have been done better. But, as a people, we are reactive and not proactive ... we make improvements as a result of disasters and not to prevent them. Prevention is expensive and often causes political upheavals that few politicians are ready to accept - yet these are the same people that are screaming and yelling that things were not done right.

Operations of this nature take a great deal of time and organization. I only wish more of the screaming politicians and newsmen would understand that.

- Carl

I reside in CA as well, yet I do have some friends and family in LA and AL. While survival kits are great to have, explain to how on earth these individuals who have lost EVERYTHING are supposed to lug around all of those supplies while wading through waist-level water and while pushing aside dead bodies? To answer the question as to why some didn't evacuate as soon as the warnings came, let me reply this way: They had no means to do so! You must understand that the hardest hit people are the impoverished ones. They have no car to put gas in. They have no relatives to live with in other states. They can't fly to their second homes in CA or TX or anywhere else. They don't have charge cards with $10,000 limits at their disposal. CA has poverty as well. BUT it is NOT thhe same type of poverty that is overwhelmingly the norm in LA or AL or MS.

My frustration is this...when the Tsunami hit last year, I donated money as did a lot of other REGULAR American citizens and superstars. My question is, where is all of the help for these victims?!? AMERICAN victims?!!?! You mean to tell me that the only two stars that can donate a large sum of money are Jay-Z and Sean "Diddy" Combs who donated $1M? Where is Oprah (she sure did send plenty of money to Africa in aid)? Where is Bill Gates? Where are all the other nations that the U.S. blindly sends money to? Well, your President turned away aid from other countries, stating that, "We will help our own." Well, obviously Mr. Bush we CAN'T help our own effectively, as demonstrated by the lacking of military help! Here's an idea: get some of our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan to help in this effort! I understand that looting is a problem. I'm totally against shooting a person in the head over a bag of ice or for food, and those people should be punished. But this drives home the point that aid is NOT reaching who needs it the most. It is a secondary that the majority of those effected are black. It is primary that they are in under-privledged areas of our country.

I'm a mother of two with an income that is barely enough, yet I still found money to send. Every little bit helps!

In closing, how the hell is it that the richest nation on earth FAILING in helping our own people?

snick77 said:

I reside in CA as well, yet I do have some friends and family in LA and AL. While survival kits are great to have, explain to how on earth these individuals who have lost EVERYTHING are supposed to lug around all of those supplies while wading through waist-level water and while pushing aside dead bodies? To answer the question as to why some didn't evacuate as soon as the warnings came, let me reply this way: They had no means to do so! You must understand that the hardest hit people are the impoverished ones. They have no car to put gas in. They have no relatives to live with in other states. They can't fly to their second homes in CA or TX or anywhere else. They don't have charge cards with $10,000 limits at their disposal. CA has poverty as well. BUT it is NOT thhe same type of poverty that is overwhelmingly the norm in LA or AL or MS.

My frustration is this...when the Tsunami hit last year, I donated money as did a lot of other REGULAR American citizens and superstars. My question is, where is all of the help for these victims?!? AMERICAN victims?!!?! You mean to tell me that the only two stars that can donate a large sum of money are Jay-Z and Sean "Diddy" Combs who donated $1M? Where is Oprah (she sure did send plenty of money to Africa in aid)? Where is Bill Gates? Where are all the other nations that the U.S. blindly sends money to? Well, your President turned away aid from other countries, stating that, "We will help our own." Well, obviously Mr. Bush we CAN'T help our own effectively, as demonstrated by the lacking of military help! Here's an idea: get some of our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan to help in this effort! I understand that looting is a problem. I'm totally against shooting a person in the head over a bag of ice or for food, and those people should be punished. But this drives home the point that aid is NOT reaching who needs it the most. It is a secondary that the majority of those effected are black. It is primary that they are in under-privledged areas of our country.

I'm a mother of two with an income that is barely enough, yet I still found money to send. Every little bit helps!

In closing, how the hell is it that the richest nation on earth FAILING in helping our own people?

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A survival kit does not have to cost a lot of money nor be difficult to carry, in some cases it may be as simple as a sturdy plastic bag, and if you noticed people traveling through the flood waters, some did bring things with them and they did have time to prepare as opposed to the Tsunami victims. There were warnings but it takes planning ahead of time. If you can't evaccuate then one needs to know whene the nearest shelters are.

I keep a grap and dash bag with medications and such in a travel kit along with ziploc bags, this has a shoulder strap, you can take several of the plastic bags from the store and tie the handles together with another and have a saddle bag to carry over the shoulder if needed and frees up the hands. I buy when on sale 1 gal bottles of water, three are kept by the door, I keep a small bottle of water in my purse along with some hard candy and nuts which can keep. Little expense, more planning. A cart or garbage can on wheels can be sealed and pulled or float. All I am saying is that with some planning when there was warning, there should have been less confusion, certanily less than with unexpected events. The local and state government knew the levee's could be breached, why were the shelters without supplies?

CdwJava said:

Actually, it IS a big deal ... and it just isn't as simple as driving down a street and tossing food and blankets to anyone you see.

The amount of organization to direct the response necessary for ANY emergency is quite daunting ... for an effort of THIS magnitude where resources have to come from across the country. The organization needed is tremendous.

Experience has taught us that simply dropping off food and water to the first people we see is ineffective. Not only does it result in riots, chaos, thefts and hoarding, it is ineffective in distributing the goods and services needed.

The things you mention are starting to be done ... but it takes time. Resources need to marshal in staging areas, they need to be organized, and the response needs to be methodical to be effective. Anything less is a waste of time, manpower and resources.

I remember the so-called Rodney King riots of 1992 in Los Angeles ... it took more than two days for outside aid to be effectively organized for a response to that city. And the need for aid was infinitesimal when compared to the coordination and organization needed for a response to New Orleans.

Also remember that the main coonduit through southern LA is gone ... there is only one main conduit into the city remaining, and it is from the north, I believe. And from that point access to the rest of the city is very limited.

Then there is the practical considerations ... food and water for the rescuers ... gasoline for cars, trucks, boats and helicopters ... supply trucks for the above equipment ... quarters to house rescuers and evacuees ... and a host of other things that I can quote from the OES manuals.

Too many people assume it is just "that simple". It is not. I am sure that things could have been done better. But, as a people, we are reactive and not proactive ... we make improvements as a result of disasters and not to prevent them. Prevention is expensive and often causes political upheavals that few politicians are ready to accept - yet these are the same people that are screaming and yelling that things were not done right.

Operations of this nature take a great deal of time and organization. I only wish more of the screaming politicians and newsmen would understand that.

- Carl

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You have valid points, Carl. I still have my tapes of what locals did when Hurricane Andrew hit and cut off the victims from the outside world waiting for the feds to arrive which they finally did and so much later than arriving to these areas.

Perhaps the gov't would be interested in seeing what people did, including law enforcement, while waiting for the Calvery to arrive. It was truly amazing! Yes, this is much bigger a problem. Even President Bush stated that the response was good, but the results were not.

I don't know what you mean by a lack of "military help" ... three days ago the marines were on scene using amphibs to rescue victims ... Army, Air Force and Marine personnel were on the ground within two days to assist in relief efforts ... the Navy has a four ship task force in the region with food, water, supplies and logisitcal aid. The National Guard of all those states has been mobilized to provide assistance as well.

And suggesting that we pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq to assist with the effort is pointless. The logistical effort needed to remove men and equipment from those countries would be wasted to remove personnel and relocate them over a period of weeks to the US. Plus, throwing men at the problem is about as successful as throwing money at it.

Resources are only part of the problem. Organization is the key. And in most regions the OES services are located at the County (or Parish) level and at the state level. In this case, with the devastation so widespread, the facilities that were supposed to contain the logistical and organizational headquarters for operations of this nature are gone. Without that local assistance, the organization is made even more difficult.

Folks, this is the equivalent of organizing for a major combat operation. We would not undertake a military operation of this scale without months or at least weeks of planning and prepositioning of resources. Many people expect a miracle to be accomplished in days when the planning should take weeks. Of course the planning CAN'T wait that long - but they are expected to put such an organization into place almost overnight?!?

It takes a LOT of logistics and organization and it cannot be done by simply funneling people and materiel into the area piecemeal. Experience has shown us that such an approach results in abject failure.

- Carl