"Strong Arm Tactics" 2

What is the name of your state?Hawaii
Ok. Let me start from the beginning with more detail. I am talking about the Pop Warner football league on Honolulu. We are being told by the board of Oahu Pop Warner that we owe $1000 for not traveling with a certain travel agency (which is now bankrupt). We have evidence (email) that we cancelled the reservation with this company the day we were notified that they were going to reserve seats for us. Oahu Pop Warner is now saying that we owe this money due to reserved seats not being cancelled. They are also saying that OPW paid the bill last year and are now requesting repayment. They have not given us any sort of documentation (or bill) showing that anyone paid this bill. They have not shown us any invoice, bill, statement or policy that shows we have to go with that certain company. We have emails also of them acknowledging us going with another travel company. They are now banning our cheerleaders from traveling this year until debt is paid. (The reason for so many quotations in other post is I refuse to acknowledge this as a debt until I see a bill) Some of the cheer parents are willing to now pay this money in hopes that OPW will release our cheerleaders to travel. These parents have stated, though, that they want this matter pursued still. They want us to continue to request for documentation, a bill, an invoice or something to show we owe this money. We have thought about other options to force OPW to provide us with documentation. My thoughts are that we will have no legal standings to pursue this matter after these parents pay this because it will be an acknowledgement and payment of debt.
I hope this clears things up better.

I just want to see if I can distill this a little further for myself:

1) You have a governing body (parent organization or whatever you want) that's billing your organization for the sum of $1,000.
2) The governing body is enforcing its payment demand by restricting your activities.
3) The sum in contention is an amount allegedly paid by the governing body to a bankrupt organization for your benefit.
4) Members of your organization are willing to pay the demand but not without documentation of the debt.
5) Documentation has not been provided and now you're at an impasse.

Leaving out the emotions, does that about sum it up?

pretty much, yes.

Does anyone know why you haven't been given the documentation?

If no, what do you think is the reason? (If necessary, you can bring some emotion back in here, but has any plausible reason been suggested?)

Would you sue the governing body to have the restriction lifted? (I'll explain, but I'd like to know, if it came down to that one choice, yes or no?)

dcatz said:

Does anyone know why you haven't been given the documentation?

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No. The board just sends copies of emails.

If no, what do you think is the reason? (If necessary, you can bring some emotion back in here, but has any plausible reason been suggested?)

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I believe that it is because they don't have any real documentation.

Would you sue the governing body to have the restriction lifted? (I'll explain, but I'd like to know, if it came down to that one choice, yes or no?)

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Yes, we are willing to sue them. But, some parents are going to be paying this debt today. I advised them to write a letter disputing the debt and to state protest to it as well, explaining that it is being paid on demand so that our girls can travel. But, some of the parents feel we shouldn't state that so that we can blindside them (I guess) with action after the fact.

(Just to be clear) Was the $1,000 paid to the travel agency FOR tickets or was it paid because reservations weren't cancelled timely?

Has anyone looked for support for the debt in the bankruptcy court files?

My reasoning:
If OPW paid a cancellation penalty for tickets that you timely cancelled, OPW paid a debt that was not owing.
If OPW paid a debt that was not owing, it's recourse is to the bankruptcy court.
If OPW sought compensation from the bankruptcy court and was not successful, are they trying to get from you what they could not get there?

If OPW paid for tickets and did not get tickets, it's a creditor of the bankrupt agency.
If it's a creditor of the bankrupt agency, it should be listed as such in the list of creditors that's made a part of the filing.
If it's in the list of creditors (a) you know the payment was made and (b) you can confirm the amount.

In any event, it seems like a good idea to check the bankruptcy files to see if either of you is listed. Maybe you can do through the back door what you can't do through the front.

Arial

dcatz said:

(Just to be clear) Was the $1,000 paid to the travel agency FOR tickets or was it paid because reservations weren't cancelled timely?

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Arial Supposedly for noncancelled reservations, though we have proof that OPW was notified that day of other travel arrangements being made.

Has anyone looked for support for the debt in the bankruptcy court files?

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Arial No. We are unsure at this point as to what to do at all.

My reasoning:
If OPW paid a cancellation penalty for tickets that you timely cancelled, OPW paid a debt that was not owing.
If OPW paid a debt that was not owing, it's recourse is to the bankruptcy court.

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Arial I think this part would be it. But I don't think OPW will follow through with the second statement. They feel they can get the money from us using strong arm tactics.

In any event, it seems like a good idea to check the bankruptcy files to see if either of you is listed. Maybe you can do through the back door what you can't do through the front.

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I don't think we can, only because I know that the supposed debt to that company has already been paid by another association. OPW wants us to pay to them what we supposedly owe to that other association. They still refuse to show us any bill, invoice or receipt of any money changing hands.

Glad the kids aren't being held hostage to this dispute.

Suspect that you're right in your belief. Suspect that OPW lost funds when the agency went upside down and is trying to recoup. But that suspicion doesn't get this resolved.

There's a difference betwen suing to have the restictions lifted and suing to recover a $1,000 overpayment. The biggest difference is cost. But you're not talking about something that should require the expenditure for either. Just wanted to check.

Personally, I agree with your advice to the parents. Take the high road and be upfront. On balance, it will serve you better if litigation comes and it will allow you to slep better, if you decide to pass.

Thank you so much. I don't think we have time to sue to get the restrictions lifted as arrangements need to be made asap. But thank you for your guidance.

(You type faster.)

Regretably, we're probably in agreement about OPW.

The question is what to do now that they've been paid and the kids are traveling. Maybe that's where you came in.

Hope the parents took your advice about the notice of protest.

You can chase OPW and there are causes of action that you can assert. If you gave notice, it would help you. If you didn't, there's no great harm.

Litigation is tedious at any level, and I hope that you avoid it. Next season won't be made better by suing OPW this year. Think about it and, if that remains an intention, you can get some guidance here, if you want it.

Trust there's nothing more?