Trying to raise funds for my photo business

What is the name of your state? CA

I just started a business two months ago, and it's doing well. I'm a sports photograher. I've been shooting for a small company for five years. We shoot team pictures and action shots for little league baseball, Pop Warner football, and soccer. After five years of working for $15 an hour on Saturdays, I decided to sign up my own leagues. I put $1500 down on photo equipment, and I have been shooting action photos for football. So far I've brought in about $6,000. Football has been good, but next fall I'm going to shoot soccer instead. It will make twice the money that football makes, and it's easier to shoot and sell the photos.

Baseball season is coming up in about 4 months. Baseball is a cash cow. Football brings up about $1200-$1800 a Saturday. Baseball brings in $3,000-$5,000. Easier to shoot, easier to sell, and way more games. But baseball takes a lot more money to shoot. I need about $8,000 worth of equipment. I need to pay 4 photographers. I'll have to pay about $2,000 on the print job. A ton of money is going to come in, but I'll have to pay out a ton before I can make the money. I'm projecting at least $30,000 profit for the baseball season, and possibly up to $50,000. I already have a few leagues lined up.

But I need to come up with a good $15,000 just to get started on it. Problem is my credit isn't good. Getting a loan from a bank is probably out of the question. I looked around the web for grant information. I ended up on a few sites that wanted to sell me some book. I don't know if those are just scams. I wouldn't mind taking out a high risk loan because I know the money will be made, but who do I get a high risk loan from?

You can check out my website:
http://jasonlewisphotography.com/
Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Did you have a LEGAL question in there somewhere???

BTW, I looked at your website.... nothing to get excited about. Your pictures are without any distinguishing quality. They look just like any of 1000's taken everyday.

Are you serious? The picuters are great. The many happy customers that I have will tell you that the picuters are great. You must be missing the point of these pictures. These aren't some artsy shots. They aren't supposed to be from some new angles. They are shots of kids that the parents can't get, and the parents are willing to pay me good money to get these shots. If you had a kid playing you'd kill for pictures like these.

I can't believe you just critized my work like that. Funny that the parents, who are the ones buying the pictures, seem to love them. Love them so much that I'm making good money, and will be making great money when baseball season comes around.

The pictures are supposed to look like 1000s of pictures taken everyday. They are supposed to look just like the pro pictures you see in sports magazines. That's what the parents want. That's what I give them.

You need to get a clue.

Jason in LA said:

You need to get a clue.

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I have 'a clue'. I coached youth athletics for 15 years... and know kids, sports and more importantly parents.
I am also an amateur (pretty decent) photographer who has taken weddings, sports pictures, portraits, nature, etc. for years.
In my opinion, your 'pictures' can be taken by any parent who has a camera.... and if they don't, they can buy a disposable for less than $5.00.

Lets talk about your 'sample' pictures (first pages only):
- You can't tell who the little football player is... so parents won't buy that one.
- Your composition is all off on the 'beach scene'... never cut the torso like that. Either full shot or head shot.
- The 'Long Beach' kids football is a fairly good shot... for a general action shot. If that was my kid on the ground, I don't want your pic. If that was my kid 'attacking', it might be of some interest.
- The 'tennis shot'... is terrible. Bad light. Too close.
- Cheerleader shot is pretty good.
- 'Peninsula' shot is terrible. Cut off. Not centered.
In looking at some of the deeper shots.... you should have used some of those on the main page as they are better shots.
Probably 20-30% of your shots have potential 'value'..... in my opinion. Not enough to make a business of it.
You would be better off sticking with the posed field shots.... individuals and teams.

In any case, back to your 'issue':
You have no money. Your credit sucks. You have NO idea about money management. You are at best, an average photographer. And yet, you come on a LEGAL advice site whining "Woe is me!! What do I do?"
Give us a break. Borrow money from a friend... who can keep an eye on you. We are not the "Last Bank and Trust".

Composition on the sport photo you use as the leader is not framed properly - action sports photos need to show either in the direction of the action or frame the actor - yours shows action already left behind.

Photo of pitcher is way too broad. The story is his face with you cannot see in this photo.
The football photo on page 2 shows action that is already over. No 'story' value.

Many of the football photos are either too dark or cut the relative action off. The only two usable photos in the football section are the left two next to last row. These actually are framed well and show action.

No usable baseball photos.

In Tennis, the only usable photo would have been the last line of the girl, first picture IF you had gotten her hitting the ball. As it stands, it's useless.

Not much to use in the softball photos.

Portraits.
Peninsula beach framing is cutoff.

You do much better with portraits however, as Jet told you, the market is glutted and the ONLY portrait i found appealing is the two boys (head to head) on the beach.

Stay away from sports photography. It takes a special breed to do well in that genre.

JETX said:

I have 'a clue'. I coached youth athletics for 15 years... and know kids, sports and more importantly parents.
I am also an amateur (pretty decent) photographer who has taken weddings, sports pictures, portraits, nature, etc. for years.
In my opinion, your 'pictures' can be taken by any parent who has a camera.... and if they don't, they can buy a disposable for less than $5.00.

Lets talk about your 'sample' pictures (first pages only):
- You can't tell who the little football player is... so parents won't buy that one.
- Your composition is all off on the 'beach scene'... never cut the torso like that. Either full shot or head shot.
- The 'Long Beach' kids football is a fairly good shot... for a general action shot. If that was my kid on the ground, I don't want your pic. If that was my kid 'attacking', it might be of some interest.
- The 'tennis shot'... is terrible. Bad light. Too close.
- Cheerleader shot is pretty good.
- 'Peninsula' shot is terrible. Cut off. Not centered.
In looking at some of the deeper shots.... you should have used some of those on the main page as they are better shots.
Probably 20-30% of your shots have potential 'value'..... in my opinion. Not enough to make a business of it.
You would be better off sticking with the posed field shots.... individuals and teams.

In any case, back to your 'issue':
You have no money. Your credit sucks. You have NO idea about money management. You are at best, an average photographer. And yet, you come on a LEGAL advice site whining "Woe is me!! What do I do?"
Give us a break. Borrow money from a friend... who can keep an eye on you. We are not the "Last Bank and Trust".

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**A: I agree with JETX and have one idea. Apply at Lost Bank & Trust.

So you guys are trying to tell me how to do my job, that I've been doing for five years. I've never had a complaint from a parent. If my pictures were so bad then my former boss wouldn't have kept me for five years, and made a boat load of money off of my pictures. He tried to keep me on.

I get people contacting me all the time to do other types of shoots. If I wanted to go the pro route I could.

In football I take preorders. A parent has to place an order before I shoot the kid. I use the same photos on my website as sample photos. Parents see the photos and drop a good amount of money on me to shoot their kids.

You guys don't get it about this type of work. My former boss, who pretty much started this business of shooting youth sports, and has gotten rich doing it, made it pretty simple. We just need to get clear shots of each kid, and there has to be action. Don't go after the Sports Illustrated shots. Doing that will make us miss other kids that we need to shoot.

The shots that you see on my website have been boughten by parents, and they are very happy. When you guys work in the business, then you can tell me how good my pictures are.

jetx is a complete moron if he thinks any parent can take these shots with their camera. I show up with the same equipment that the pros use. I have $5,000 of equipment to get these shots. If any parent can get these shots, then why aren't they out there? Why are they paying me money for these shots? Why am I making money doing this? So parents are out there shooting, and they all say how much better my shots are than there shots. They wouldn't try to sell their shots.

If you guys want to question my funds, fine. You guys have a valid point. But questioning my work is silly. If my work was so bad, why are parents so excited about my work, and why do they buy it up?

You know what, I don't need advice around here. My business is off to a good start. I was just looking for some advice so I could get to baseball season. Baseball is going to make me a lot of money. Wether you guys think my work is good or not, the money will be made. And a lot of it. If the shots weren't good, I wouldn't have lasted 5 years with the same company.

Jason in LA said:

You know what, I don't need advice around here.

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Jason, Try to borrow the money. In addition, I would just make sure that obtain permission from your subject's before posting their picture on your website or any publication. You may already be doing that, but just FYI.

Good luck in your business

Jason in LA said:

I get people contacting me all the time to do other types of shoots.
Parents see the photos and drop a good amount of money on me to shoot their kids.
If I wanted to go the pro route I could.
Why are they paying me money for these shots? Why am I making money doing this?
Baseball is going to make me a lot of money.

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Simple questions: If any of that was true... why don't you have the money to fund your own start-up??
Or why won't a bank loan to you with your excellent business product??

Banks are in the business of making money. If you, as a new business, with five years experience, approach them with a VALID, SOLID business plan.... showing THEM that they should invest in you... they will. Hell, you can use your "$5,000 of equipment" as security for the loan!!

Instead, you are on a LEGAL website trying to troll for funds?? Something is clearly NOT correct in your claims.... simple as that.

That's right, it's all lies and a big scam.

Jason in LA said:

So you guys are trying to tell me how to do my job, that I've been doing for five years.

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And the advice you got was form a former Newspaper Publisher and Sports Photographer with three AP news photo awards and who has hired five photogs who all have won similar awards.

I've never had a complaint from a parent. If my pictures were so bad then my former boss wouldn't have kept me for five years, and made a boat load of money off of my pictures. He tried to keep me on.

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Taking good photos and making a living at it are two different things. You have some good photos. YOu do NOT have great photos enough to sustain a business.

I get people contacting me all the time to do other types of shoots. If I wanted to go the pro route I could.

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Then do so.

In football I take preorders. A parent has to place an order before I shoot the kid. I use the same photos on my website as sample photos. Parents see the photos and drop a good amount of money on me to shoot their kids.

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And that's because junior is the apple of their eye. But that doesn't mean you take good action photos. Not one of them would have made it outside this arena.

You guys don't get it about this type of work. My former boss, who pretty much started this business of shooting youth sports, and has gotten rich doing it, made it pretty simple. We just need to get clear shots of each kid, and there has to be action. Don't go after the Sports Illustrated shots. Doing that will make us miss other kids that we need to shoot.

Click to expand...

So you want to put out crap and sell it. Nothing wrong with that.

The shots that you see on my website have been boughten by parents, and they are very happy. When you guys work in the business, then you can tell me how good my pictures are.

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Thank GOD you aren't doing your own writing. "BOUGHTEN"? And I have worked in the business, including as a staff photog for the Kansas City star. Remember the game KC against Oakland when Christian Okoye knocked a photog on his ass going down the right sideline? I still have the photo before the camera broke and THAT won the sports photo of the year from the AP. So yes, I'll tell you your stuff is crap.

jetx is a complete moron if he thinks any parent can take these shots with their camera. I show up with the same equipment that the pros use. I have $5,000 of equipment to get these shots.

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He's correct. Also, form your 'stock' photos you need to invest in some good lenses.

If any parent can get these shots, then why aren't they out there? Why are they paying me money for these shots? Why am I making money doing this? So parents are out there shooting, and they all say how much better my shots are than there shots. They wouldn't try to sell their shots.

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Because they'd rather watch than work. That's what you get paid to do.

If you guys want to question my funds, fine. You guys have a valid point. But questioning my work is silly. If my work was so bad, why are parents so excited about my work, and why do they buy it up?

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Questioning your work is relevant because no one that I know of who is responsible for commercial paper is going to bankroll a dimestore operation like yours with your product and background.

You know what, I don't need advice around here. My business is off to a good start. I was just looking for some advice so I could get to baseball season. Baseball is going to make me a lot of money. Wether you guys think my work is good or not, the money will be made. And a lot of it. If the shots weren't good, I wouldn't have lasted 5 years with the same company.

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You lasted 5 years because you aren't professional. Come back in 25 when you've had some experience and some awards to show how good you are. Until then you're a hack.

CO19 said:

Jason, Try to borrow the money. In addition, I would just make sure that obtain permission from your subject's before posting their picture on your website or any publication. You may already be doing that, but just FYI.

Good luck in your business

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Thank you for the advice. You are the first person to give me some.

JETX said:

Simple questions: If any of that was true... why don't you have the money to fund your own start-up??
Or why won't a bank loan to you with your excellent business product??

Banks are in the business of making money. If you, as a new business, with five years experience, approach them with a VALID, SOLID business plan.... showing THEM that they should invest in you... they will. Hell, you can use your "$5,000 of equipment" as security for the loan!!

Instead, you are on a LEGAL website trying to troll for funds?? Something is clearly NOT correct in your claims.... simple as that.

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I've been working in the field for five years, but I've been running my own business for only a month and a half. I scrapped up the money to buy one camera body, three 1 gig cards, a mono pod, and a few other things. I rent the camera lens. So far I've profited a good $5,000. I have enough to shoot football, and it's worked out great. I paid for most of my equipment the first shoot. But what I've made isn't close to what I need to shoot baseball. I need more money to do it. In football I can do all the shooting myself. But in baseball I need four photographers. So I need three more camera bodies, and four lens, because I don't want to rent anymore.

I think you just like to spam on people. My claims are 100% true. It's a new business, and I'm trying to grow it.

Jason in LA said:

I've been working in the field for five years, but I've been running my own business for only a month and a half. I scrapped up the money to buy one camera body, three 1 gig cards, a mono pod, and a few other things. I rent the camera lens. So far I've profited a good $5,000. I have enough to shoot football, and it's worked out great. I paid for most of my equipment the first shoot. But what I've made isn't close to what I need to shoot baseball. I need more money to do it. In football I can do all the shooting myself. But in baseball I need four photographers. So I need three more camera bodies, and four lens, because I don't want to rent anymore.

I think you just like to spam on people. My claims are 100% true. It's a new business, and I'm trying to grow it.

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I'M SOLD!!!
Please post your contact information so that I can send you a large check!

Son, you just keep digging yourself into a deeper and deeper crap-hole!!

Jason in LA said:

I scrapped up the money to buy one camera body, three 1 gig cards, a mono pod, and a few other things.

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I have $5,000 of equipment to get these shots.

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If you spent $5000 on that 'equipment'.... you got taken!!! Lets see:
a) 1GB cards.... at about $80 each (thats $240)
b) monopod..... less than $50 (likely a LOT less).
c) camera body.... you don't say what model... lets 'play' with a Nikon D50 (6.1GB digital).... body only... less than $1000.
Totals up to about $1400.... lets bump it to $2000...... Still far less than your claimed $5000 of equipment, huh??
..
Your 'spins' get stranger and stranger.... and less truth... the more you post.

It's a new business, and I'm trying to grow it.

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So, borrow the money from family/friends as I said in my first post. If it is that good a deal.... they should jump at it.
Or, at the least.... ask your other photographers to bring their own gear.... and you provide the location/contacts, etc. A little less direct in your pocket, but more than just one camera will bring in.

In any case... this is a LEGAL advice site.... and you have had your 15 seconds of 'fame'. Say goodnight.