Questions

What is the name of your state? CA

I was driving home one night on a road in the town. I was driving behind another vehicle which was slowing at a rapid rate of speed without applying brake, and my lighter car was unable to slow at the same rate without applying brake. I noticed a vehicle behind me following too closely to safely use my brake so I checked the other lane and saw the only vehicle visible 4 car lengths behind me after checking repeatably and also noticed that my speed was faster than theirs so I changed into that lane to create more room both in front and behind my vehicle. However, as I did this I noticed the vehicle behind me change lanes with me and speed up along with me to the P.F. Max. Since the vehicle behind me was still close enough to where I couldn't see all of their headlights, I switched back to the other lane to allow that vehicle to pass by after I had cleared the other vehicle in the other lane by more than 1 car length from where I would be merging in after speeding up an additional 5-8 mph faster than that vehicle. When I merged back into the other lane, totally missing my blinker (I went for it but I guess I missed the lever) the vehicle at my 6 followed me. I noticed this, and with the aid of the vehicle I had just passed's headlights was able to see the lightbar on top of the car and realized I had a PD unit following me the entire time, for some reason on my tail. The P.F. Max was 45, and I was traveling 35-38 when I made the first lane change (it was noted on my Notice to Appear that I was traveling at the P.F. Max at the time of the "incident"). I was cited for CVCs 21658(a) "Unsafe lane change" and 22107 "failure to signal".

I researched the vehicle codes through the CA DMV website and noted that 21658(a) reads "A vehicle shall be driven nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety." My car is roughly 170 inches in length, and I noticed that there was atleast 200 feet between my car's soon-to-be location and the other vehicle in the lane's location prior to my first lane change, and atleast 170 if not 200+ feet between my car's soon-to-be location and the original vehicle's location prior to my second lane change. Neither vehicle had to react to my lane changes as I was traveling at the P.F. Max as well as faster than their speed.

As for the second CVC, I also looked that up and it reads "No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement." Since neither vehicle was required to brake due to my movements as I was traveling faster than them and provided ample spacing between me and them prior to changing lanes, I feel I did not affect the safety of either vehicle nor affect their DOT, speed, etc. by my movements.

In both instances, I also was attempting to allow the vehicle riding my tail to pass by me safely and create more spacing in front as well as behind me but both lane changes were accompanied by said vehicle as it never let up on spacing, only moved closer and followed me no matter my location.

I am planning on fighting this ticket, but am not sure if it is worth it. If this ticket stands, do I risk having 2 points added to my record for this single incident? If I go to traffic school would it avoid both points? Does it seem like I have a chance of winning at all? I took notes of the incident before leaving, as I was in a safe location were parking was permitted so I have all the details I need, plus I also obtained a copy of "Fight Your Ticket in California" by Attorney David W. Brown.

Thank you all for your time, especially for reading this rather long post.

osiris said:

My car is roughly 170 feet in length,

Click to expand...

What kind of car is 170 feet long?



Just curious...

Curt581 said:

What kind of car is 170 feet long?



Just curious...

Click to expand...

Suzuki Reno.. sorry, 170 inches. haha, that's what I get for typing that at 3am.

osiris said:

I am planning on fighting this ticket, but am not sure if it is worth it. If this ticket stands, do I risk having 2 points added to my record for this single incident? If I go to traffic school would it avoid both points? Does it seem like I have a chance of winning at all? I took notes of the incident before leaving, as I was in a safe location were parking was permitted so I have all the details I need, plus I also obtained a copy of "Fight Your Ticket in California" by Attorney David W. Brown.

Thank you all for your time, especially for reading this rather long post.

Click to expand...

Yes, you do risk two points. The turn signal is required if any vehicle COULD be affected by the movement - it does not say if they actually WERE affected. Essentially any movement you make where there is a vehicle visible will require you to use the signal. You might be able to make the argument if the only vehicle was a couple hundred feet away, but not when you are between them and another one 4 lengths away. Arguing the semantics on that one won't fly.

Depending on what the officer saw and how you were driving, you might be able to prevail on the 21658.

Yes, traffic school can absolve the entire incident.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

Yes, you do risk two points. The turn signal is required if any vehicle COULD be affected by the movement - it does not say if they actually WERE affected. Essentially any movement you make where there is a vehicle visible will require you to use the signal. You might be able to make the argument if the only vehicle was a couple hundred feet away, but not when you are between them and another one 4 lengths away. Arguing the semantics on that one won't fly.


Depending on what the officer saw and how you were driving, you might be able to prevail on the 21658.

Yes, traffic school can absolve the entire incident.

- Carl

Click to expand...

Basically the cop was approximately 1/2 a car length behind me in the same lane, in lane #2 the closest car was a minimum of 3 if not 4 car lengths away traveling slower. There were no other vehicles in that lane between him, me, or in front of us.

osiris said:

Basically the cop was approximately 1/2 a car length behind me in the same lane, in lane #2 the closest car was a minimum of 3 if not 4 car lengths away traveling slower. There were no other vehicles in that lane between him, me, or in front of us.

Click to expand...

Given that a vehicle can cover that distance in no time, a signal was still required.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

Given that a vehicle can cover that distance in no time, a signal was still required.

- Carl

Click to expand...

Would saying the officer was following too close and prompted my lane change in the effort toward safety be worth anything? Although it sounds like a slam on the officer, it is in effect what I was trying to accomplish as the officer was following far too closely and pushing me up against the other vehicle in lane #1 and expedited my lane change to #2. Is it possible to fight one charge and go to traffic school for the other? I do not feel like I am guilty and would it would feel unjust to just go to traffic school and pay for something I do not agree I did.

Virtually anything is possible. However, keep in mind that it is the practice of most traffic courts in CA to take traffic school off the table if you go to trial. If you think you have a shot at a defense, go ahead. it might work. A lot will depend on the officer's version of events as well.

- Carl

CdwJava said:

Virtually anything is possible. However, keep in mind that it is the practice of most traffic courts in CA to take traffic school off the table if you go to trial. If you think you have a shot at a defense, go ahead. it might work. A lot will depend on the officer's version of events as well.

- Carl

Click to expand...

Then I should probably do a Discovery Request to get the officer's notes (if any, the officer left immediately after I signed and there was nothing written on their copy's backside nor were they in the vehicle long enough after getting my ID to write anything but the ticket) and attempt to go to court but if they show ask for traffic school before the actual trial starts. I am a student who is already having problems keeping up with car payments, insurance, tuition, books, rent, etc. To pay this ticket would make it so I would be unable to pay for books for the next semester, or forfeit food. Can't believe the law would remove safety and put a little blinking light over it. The other vehicle was traveling slower than I and would not have caught up to my vehicle so after I changed lanes there was still 3-4 car lengths of space between me and the other vehicle, minus the cop who followed me into that lane. The cop too failed to use a blinker, and if that car slowed it wasn't because of me.

osiris said:

Then I should probably do a Discovery Request to get the officer's notes

Click to expand...

Certainly an option.

Can't believe the law would remove safety and put a little blinking light over it.

Click to expand...

That blinking light IS a safety feature. It tells other drivers your intentions so that they can safely make their own decisions. Without proper signaling driving would be chaos.

The other vehicle was traveling slower than I and would not have caught up to my vehicle so after I changed lanes there was still 3-4 car lengths of space between me and the other vehicle, minus the cop who followed me into that lane.

Click to expand...

That's not the issue. You made a turning movement without properly indicating to other driver's your intent. This caused a potential safety issue.

Next time hopefully you will remember to use your turn signal.

The cop too failed to use a blinker, and if that car slowed it wasn't because of me.

Click to expand...

That's a seperate matter and not related to a defense in your matter.

- Carl

Thanks for your advice.

I would do a Trial by Declaration first.

And I would definitely mention that the whole thing wouldn't have happened but for the officer following you too closely.

Further, my experience has been that most courts will still give you traffic school if you ask for it at trial. But they don't have to - it is at the judge's discretion.

The only drawback to a TBD is that in order to do one, you have to post the full bail. But I still recommend doing one, so to put off the bail date as long as possible, take an extension now (30 to 60 days will be added to your "appear by" date), then when the extension is about over, ask for an arraignment date. Go to the arraignment and plead not guilty and ask the judge for extra time to put up the bail.

Also, do a discovery.

Pug