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state is ripping me off

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brent0025

Member
What is the name of your state? Tx

I received a court appointed attorney for a class A midsmeanor and we agreed to a differed ajuciation program with the state prosecutor. Under the term i am suppose to pay $225 in court costs, $250 in fines, and take an anger management class. I signed a judgement to this agreement in which i understood the terms and received 2 copies of the judgement. I signed and then dated everything and handed it over to the judge and prosecution. I leave the courtroom and go over to collections to make up a payment plan for these fines. The collections department says i owe 1,475 dollars in fines. I told them they have the wrong person and they said no they dont. They then sent me up to the county clerks office to discuss this matter. They show me the original judgemnet which has been altered after I signed it. After i signed everything there is a box to check for court appointed attorney fees which was blank when i signed it. Well someone wrote a $1000 dollars in court appointed attorney fees box. Keep in mind that I have my 2 copies of the judgement showing that when i signed and received my copies of the judgemnent that the court appointed attorney box was blank. I am really upset about this and I would of never signed this judgement with this on there. What should I do? The altering of legal court documents in a court room! The legality of this is basically illegal and the irony of this is this happened in a court room. I could use some advice.
 


brent0025

Member
Out of all due respect senior judge this has a stink to it. In any contract for that matter if the original is altered in any way then the contract is null and void. Example, u buy a car for 30,000 and sign the paper work which includes interest, taxes etc. And then u receive your car note and it shows a balance of $40,000, I think you would question it and not just pay it. The court appointed attorney does not deserve one penny from me and if he wanted his thousand dollars then he needed to tell me in advance. And why did they need to add that $1000 dollars after I had signed it, if it was there to begin with then i would not be in this situation. Bottom line is u cant go altering documents to the way u see fit, especially court documents. This is why we invented carbon copies so we can avoid situations like this one. Any other advice and I will take it. I dont think telling me to just pay it has and merit to what I am questioning.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
brent0025 said:
Out of all due respect senior judge this has a stink to it. In any contract for that matter if the original is altered in any way then the contract is null and void. Example, u buy a car for 30,000 and sign the paper work which includes interest, taxes etc. And then u receive your car note and it shows a balance of $40,000, I think you would question it and not just pay it. The court appointed attorney does not deserve one penny from me and if he wanted his thousand dollars then he needed to tell me in advance. And why did they need to add that $1000 dollars after I had signed it, if it was there to begin with then i would not be in this situation. Bottom line is u cant go altering documents to the way u see fit, especially court documents. This is why we invented carbon copies so we can avoid situations like this one. Any other advice and I will take it. I dont think telling me to just pay it has and merit to what I am questioning.
Then go back to court and show them your copies and say you do not think you should have to pay for your lawyer but you do think the taxpayers should pay for your lawyer.

Post back with results.
 

brent0025

Member
I am on the open docket to speak with the judge tommorow at 1:30. I will post back with results, the proof is in my hands with the carbon copies so I dont think they should have an arguement.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
brent0025 said:
I am on the open docket to speak with the judge tommorow at 1:30. I will post back with results, the proof is in my hands with the carbon copies so I dont think they should have an arguement.
Post back truthfully....
 

gawm

Senior Member
If the judge does let you out of the plea(I don't think he will) you'll probably be at square one again. I'm sure they'll include on your next agreement if they offer you another one. Don't go in there with the attitude that your being screwed, go in there with a misunderstanding attitude
 

Kane

Member
I can't speak to all the counties in Texas, but in the counties around here it's normal to make probationers pay their court-appointed fees back. It's not something that's subject to the plea-negotiation process. In other words, the judge was going to tack that on regardless of what deal you'd reached. Court-costs, probation fees (you'll probably have to pay that too, if you didn't know that ), and some other things are also like that (fees for the anger management class, for example).

Having said all that, court-appointed's should tell their clients ahead of time. There's no reason for it to be a surprise. Also, $1000 is way high for court appointed fees on a misdemeanor. The county is supposed to have a schedule for court appointed fees. See if you can get a copy.

I'm curious to know what he judge has to say.
 

brent0025

Member
Ok i know a few people who wanted details in what happpened to this story. I finally was able to talk to the judge yesterday. I am late for work, I will post complete details later on this evening.
 

brent0025

Member
Basically I got screwed... i was able to talk to the judge in her private quarters with the bailiff present. At first she did agree with me and said the copies did not bleed through, Of course I said they didnt bleed through because the orginal was not atttached to the carbon copies when i signed them. I told her that the original was altered and that i question the legality of the altering of federal documents. She asked me why I would wait over month to bring this up after signing the judgement. I guess because you have 1 month to file a motion to revoke judgement.

She told me it was standard procedure to write in the amount on the judgement of the attorneys fees after the defendant has signed the paperwork. I asked her that before someone signs something they read everything carefully so that they are fully aware of the situation they are in, apparently not in the justice system. Basically its bull**** and yes i could hire a attorney and probably get this taken care of, but it would probably cost me more money to hire an attorney to get rid of this 1000 bucks.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND A COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY TO ANYONE, THEY ARE IN THE PROSECUTIONS POCKET, and are only good for making a decent plea agreement. Do not expect them to step up to bat for you. I can just picture the court appointed attorney saying to the prosecutor after i signed the judgement " you owe me a steak or lobster dinner for me talking my defendant into signing this judement."
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
brent0025 said:
Basically I got screwed... i was able to talk to the judge in her private quarters with the bailiff present. At first she did agree with me and said the copies did not bleed through, Of course I said they didnt bleed through because the orginal was not atttached to the carbon copies when i signed them. I told her that the original was altered and that i question the legality of the altering of federal documents. She asked me why I would wait over month to bring this up after signing the judgement. I guess because you have 1 month to file a motion to revoke judgement.

She told me it was standard procedure to write in the amount on the judgement of the attorneys fees after the defendant has signed the paperwork. I asked her that before someone signs something they read everything carefully so that they are fully aware of the situation they are in, apparently not in the justice system. Basically its bull**** and yes i could hire a attorney and probably get this taken care of, but it would probably cost me more money to hire an attorney to get rid of this 1000 bucks.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND A COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY TO ANYONE, THEY ARE IN THE PROSECUTIONS POCKET, and are only good for making a decent plea agreement. Do not expect them to step up to bat for you. I can just picture the court appointed attorney saying to the prosecutor after i signed the judgement " you owe me a steak or lobster dinner for me talking my defendant into signing this judement."


Okay. Thanks for a truthful post.
 

outonbail

Senior Member
You requested the courts to appoint you an attorney did you not? Did you have to fill out a form which asked for financial information before you had an attorney appointed to represent you? If so, read what is printed on the form and you will probably see where it informs you that fees will be assessed for this service when your case is settled.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
brent0025 said:
Basically I got screwed... i was able to talk to the judge in her private quarters with the bailiff present. At first she did agree with me and said the copies did not bleed through, Of course I said they didnt bleed through because the orginal was not atttached to the carbon copies when i signed them. I told her that the original was altered and that i question the legality of the altering of federal documents. She asked me why I would wait over month to bring this up after signing the judgement. I guess because you have 1 month to file a motion to revoke judgement.

She told me it was standard procedure to write in the amount on the judgement of the attorneys fees after the defendant has signed the paperwork. I asked her that before someone signs something they read everything carefully so that they are fully aware of the situation they are in, apparently not in the justice system. Basically its bull**** and yes i could hire a attorney and probably get this taken care of, but it would probably cost me more money to hire an attorney to get rid of this 1000 bucks.

I DO NOT RECOMMEND A COURT APPOINTED ATTORNEY TO ANYONE, THEY ARE IN THE PROSECUTIONS POCKET, and are only good for making a decent plea agreement. Do not expect them to step up to bat for you. I can just picture the court appointed attorney saying to the prosecutor after i signed the judgement " you owe me a steak or lobster dinner for me talking my defendant into signing this judement."


So, basically your complaint is that you had to pay for your own lawyer.

Is this correct?
 

brent0025

Member
Well in a way. They should make it crystal clear when agreeing to a judgemnt that part of what you are agreeing to is included with the court appointed attorney fees and other conditions of your probation. The court appointed attorney fees is not a debt, its a court order, failing to make a payment can result in a warrant and a possible revoke in my probation.

If you cannot afford an attorney one will be provided for you, which would be a court appointed attorney. I pay taxes so in theory you would think the tax payers money would pay the attorneys fees. i just found out that the only way in which court appointed attorney fees do not have to be paid back is if you are found not guilty in a court of law, then the state picks up the tab. I had a case in which I felt very strongly that if i had the upfront money for a good attorney i would of easily been found not guilty. I know now that court appointed attorneys are just plea bargainers with the prosecutors and try to scare you to death if you chance it by going to trial. Its a win win for the state, i have to pay the attorney fees even though technically i havent been found guilty in a court of law, there was no trial which would of costed the state money, and then on top of that if i would of won then thet state would of had to pick up my attorney fees.

So bottom line is the court appointed attorneys work for the state and are compensated more by setting up a plea agreement then risking going to trial and costing the state money.

Oh yea to answer your question, i feel i shouldnt have to pay the court appointed attorney fees because it was not on the judgement when i signed it, i agreed to everything on the judgement that I signed, not what was altered only on the original copy. What is the point of putting the check box and attorney fees box on the judgement paperwork if it can be altered to whatever they want. I would of never signed the judgment if that $1000 dollars was on there. I would of fired him and then i would of found another $1000 or so for a real attorney and had my case dismissed.
 
Last edited:

acmb05

Senior Member
you should have to pay

Because when you accepted the court appointed attorney you acepted that you would have to possibly pay his fees. If you read your paperwork it is on there.

As far as the fees go from what I looked up they allow lawyers to charge a fee based on how many years they have been practicing.

0-2 years=150.00 an hour

2-4 years 200.00 an hour and so on. up to 350.00 an hour for anyone practicing over 11 years. So 1000.00 could add up real fast if your lawyer has been practicing for more than 11 years.

Of course they would not know the final fee until the case was done and over with which is why it was not on your paperwork originally. Keep in mind that any time he talked to you on the phone or filed any paperwork on your case you were charged for it. They dont just count the time you were actually in court. Considering most cases you got off pretty cheap at 1000.00 dollars.
 

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