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Property defense!

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Fred

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Arizona

Hello, I recently had a packaged delivered and left at my front door by the driver while I was not home, when I got home it is not there and is assumed stolen.

Hypothetically lets say while I was home I placed a empty box by my front door (maybe some rocks for wieght) and I was to view someone steal it. Now lets say I leave the house with a sledgehammer and the man begins to run with my box, what course of action am I able to take to get my box back and get them in jail? Can I beat them to within an inch of death? Can I actually kill them? Or what? What can I do? Also what if they dropped the package upon the sight of me would that change what I could do and how so?

Heres another situation, lets say I were to catch someone vandalizing my property, what legal action could I take against them?
 


From: http://tkdtutor.com/07Defense/Laws.htm


Defense of property

Generally, where only property is involved and the offender makes no threat against a person, the use of force is not justified. If a person approaches you and demands your wallet, but makes no threats whatsoever, you may refuse the request, but you may not use force against the person. Remember there must be the threat of force and/or an overt action of force. In general, the law does not view property as important enough to justify the use of force to protect or regain it. An exception to this general rule is "hot pursuit."

Hot pursuit

If you witness the theft of your property and make a "hot pursuit" to recover it, you may use minimal force to recover the property but you may not cause serious injury. If the thief responds with force, you may use a reasonable amount of force to defend yourself, but you must end the confrontation as soon as possible. If your pursuit is not immediate or you did not see the actual theft, then the "hot pursuit" justification no longer applies.

Defense of home

To the law, your home is your castle. It is your place of last retreat. You are not required to retreat from a threat in your home. When defending your home against a burglary, authorities rarely question the use of force¾ even deadly force. Burglary is legally defined as:

the breaking and entering,
without consent,
of the dwelling house of another,
while it is occupied,
at night,
with the intent to commit any felony or larceny therein.
If you believe a burglar is serious physical threat to you or your family, the law allows you to use whatever force you feel is necessary to neutralize the threat. However, here again, one must be careful since not all intruders are burglars. Someone may be intoxicated and enter the wrong apartment. A firefighter may be trying to break-in to warn you of a fire in your home. Wildly shooting at anyone who trespasses onto your property is not reasonable self-defense. If the mistaken use force is reasonable under the circumstance and no one is seriously injured. the law will generally excuse the action. However, remember that the victim may still pursue you in civil court.

The use of force is justifiable only if the actor first requests the intruder to desist from his interference with the property, unless the actor reasonably believes that:

Such request would be useless,

It would be dangerous to the actor or another person to make the request, or

Substantial harm will be done to the physical condition of the property which is sought to be protected before the request can effectively be made.

The use of deadly force is not justifiable in the defense of premises unless the actor reasonably believes that:

The person against whom the force is used is attempting to dispossess the actor of his/her dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or

The person against whom the force is used is attempting to commit or consummate arson, burglary, robbery or other criminal theft or property destruction; except that

Deadly force does not become justifiable under A or B unless:

The person against whom it is used has used or threatened deadly force against, or in the presence of, the actor or

The use of force other than deadly force to prevent the commission or consummation of the crime would expose the actor, or another in his/her presence, to substantial danger of serious bodily harm.

These are defenses to criminal charges which will be brought against you if you defended yourself. Even if the prosecutor or police decide not to bring criminal charges against you or if you are successful in proving that you were protecting yourself as permitted under certain provisions of the criminal code, the attacker if injured still may attempt to bring a civil suit to recover for any medical expenses or injuries incurred.

Trespassing

Trespass occurs when a person enters property without permission or refuses to leave after permission is withdrawn and a person responsible for the property makes a clear request to the person to leave. If the person does not leave, he/she is considered a trespasser. As such, you may use minimal force to eject the trespasser, but you may not cause serious injury. The proper response to a trespasser is to notify the police. However, if the trespasser enters your property in a violent manner, you need not request him/her to leave before using reasonable force to eject the trespasser.

The use of force upon or toward the another person is justifiable when the actor is in possession or control of the premises or is licensed or privileged to be thereon and he/she reasonably believes such force is necessary to prevent or terminate what he/she reasonably believes to be the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass by such other person in or upon such premises. A person commits a criminal trespass if, knowing that he/she is not licensed or privileged to do so, enters or surreptitiously remains in any structure or separately secured or occupied portion thereof.

Do not assume every trespasser is a burglar. A problem arises when a trespasser is on your property and you believe the trespasser may try to break and enter your home, but he/she has not yet attempted to do so. You cannot legally treat the trespasser as a burglar until he/she at least attempts to break and enter. On the other hand, if you treat the person as a simple trespasser, you may place yourself or your family in more danger than if you threat the person as a burglar. This is a judgment call that hopefully you will never face. If this situation does occur, the law will likely excuse your use of greater force than necessary if, in fact, the trespasser was planning to commit burglary. Such things as the person wearing a mask or carrying burglary tools may help prove this. However, if the intruder was merely a simple trespasser, authorities may prosecute you if you used excessive force.

Some have stated that, if you kill a trespasser make sure he/she is inside the home, even if you have to drag him/her inside after the shooting. This action would in itself be a crime, even if it were later determined that the initial shooting was justifiable.

One is not permitted to set up traps to kill or maim persons who attempt to trespass on his/her property. There is a responsibility to warn trespassers of dangerous conditions and an inherent risk of injuries. You may not use a deep pit to catch trespassers or rigged shotgun to kill a trespasser.
 

BelizeBreeze

Senior Member
Fred said:
What is the name of your state? Arizona

Hello, I recently had a packaged delivered and left at my front door by the driver while I was not home, when I got home it is not there and is assumed stolen.

Hypothetically lets say while I was home I placed a empty box by my front door (maybe some rocks for wieght) and I was to view someone steal it. Now lets say I leave the house with a sledgehammer and the man begins to run with my box, what course of action am I able to take to get my box back and get them in jail? Can I beat them to within an inch of death? Can I actually kill them? Or what? What can I do? Also what if they dropped the package upon the sight of me would that change what I could do and how so?

Heres another situation, lets say I were to catch someone vandalizing my property, what legal action could I take against them?
Let's assume you are an idiot looking for adivce from a legal forum on how to break the law and then not suffer the consequences. :rolleyes:
 
Fred said:
What is the name of your state? Arizona

Hello, I recently had a packaged delivered and left at my front door by the driver while I was not home, when I got home it is not there and is assumed stolen.

Hypothetically lets say while I was home I placed a empty box by my front door (maybe some rocks for wieght) and I was to view someone steal it. Now lets say I leave the house with a sledgehammer and the man begins to run with my box, what course of action am I able to take to get my box back and get them in jail? Can I beat them to within an inch of death? Can I actually kill them? Or what? What can I do? Also what if they dropped the package upon the sight of me would that change what I could do and how so?

Heres another situation, lets say I were to catch someone vandalizing my property, what legal action could I take against them?

You could pick up the telephone and dial 911. There is an organization specifically assigned to handle those matters. Can't recall the name, but I am sure that is the right number.

Here is another situation: Let's assume it is the real world, where petty thieves are now crack-heads and meth-addicts that would stab or shoot someone like you in a heart-beat; for another hit on a crack-pipe, much less a package with contents worth money at a pawn shop.

The only people allowed to do what you used for examples are Clint Eastwood, Stephen Segal, Chuck Norris, OJ Simpson, Robert Blake, and of course, Oprah (she can do anything).

We just had a case in Colorado where a guy broke into a couples' house with a weapon, and the husband & wife inside beat him to death. We have the "make my day" law here.

When I was transferred to Houston, it only took 12 days for my car to be stolen, and, just as the officer told me, it was recovered before he completed the theft report. He also told me that if I shot someone breaking into my car to 1) make sure I killed him, not maimed him, and 2)make sure he falls inside the car and 3) make real sure it is really my car. lol

Obviously, you can only use what is necessary to protect yourself from personal harm, which in most cases, is dialing 911.

You could also consider this fact: There is ALWAYS going to be somebody that has a "bigger gun" than you do; that is willing to actually use it, instead of just trying to scare somebody. First, use that sledgehammer to smash your own finger, which hopefully will distract you from chasing after the thief.

This post was a joke....right?
 

AHA

Senior Member
Fred said:
What is the name of your state? Arizona

Hello, I recently had a packaged delivered and left at my front door by the driver while I was not home, when I got home it is not there and is assumed stolen.

Hypothetically lets say while I was home I placed a empty box by my front door (maybe some rocks for wieght) and I was to view someone steal it. Now lets say I leave the house with a sledgehammer and the man begins to run with my box, what course of action am I able to take to get my box back and get them in jail? Can I beat them to within an inch of death? Can I actually kill them? Or what? What can I do? Also what if they dropped the package upon the sight of me would that change what I could do and how so?

Heres another situation, lets say I were to catch someone vandalizing my property, what legal action could I take against them?
"Hypothetical" doesn't belong here, this isn't a fictional story writing suggestion site.
 

justalayman

Senior Member
Fred said:
What is the name of your state? Arizona

Hello, I recently had a packaged delivered and left at my front door by the driver while I was not home, when I got home it is not there and is assumed stolen.

Hypothetically lets say while I was home I placed a empty box by my front door (maybe some rocks for wieght) and I was to view someone steal it. Now lets say I leave the house with a sledgehammer and the man begins to run with my box, what course of action am I able to take to get my box back and get them in jail? Can I beat them to within an inch of death? Can I actually kill them? Or what? What can I do? Also what if they dropped the package upon the sight of me would that change what I could do and how so?

Heres another situation, lets say I were to catch someone vandalizing my property, what legal action could I take against them?

So who did you kill?
 

divgradcurl

Senior Member
Burglary is legally defined as:

the breaking and entering,
without consent,
of the dwelling house of another,
while it is occupied,
at night,
with the intent to commit any felony or larceny therein.
Where did you come up with this old-fashioned common-law definition of burglary? I don't think any state still uses this common-law definition -- the common-law definition has been superseded by statute in every state I know of -- especially the part about a burglary only being "at night." Arizona simpply requires unlawful entry with intent to commit a felony -- structure can be residential or commercial, occupied or unoccupied, day or night -- see State of Arizona v. Dann, for example.
 

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