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Post Dated Check

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Nameofjim

Junior Member
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
A friend used one of those "check-into-cash" loan places. He exchanged his personal check written in the amount of $137.50, for a $100.00 "cash advance." The check cashing operator promised to "hold" my friend's personal check for 10 business days, before cashing it. My friend claims that his personal check was not post-dated when he gave it to the check cashing operator. After 10 business days the check cashing operator attempted to cash/deposit my friend's personal check; that check was returned "NSF." Has my friend committed a bad check crime?
 


justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
Yes, he has. Why do you think it would make any difference if he didn't post date the check?
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Paradise, in other posts reagrding this type of situation I have been informed that by post dating the check that it becomes a promissory note and changes the rules accordingly. This action seemed to take it from the realm of criminal activity to civil concerns.
 
S

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
That is not my point. So the guy dated the check for the day he wrote it. They kept the check for 10 days and tried to cash it. No big deal about the dates.
 
S

seniorjudge

Senior Member
Nameofjim said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
A friend used one of those "check-into-cash" loan places. He exchanged his personal check written in the amount of $137.50, for a $100.00 "cash advance." The check cashing operator promised to "hold" my friend's personal check for 10 business days, before cashing it. My friend claims that his personal check was not post-dated when he gave it to the check cashing operator. After 10 business days the check cashing operator attempted to cash/deposit my friend's personal check; that check was returned "NSF." Has my friend committed a bad check crime?
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What date did you put on the check?
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
That is not my point. So the guy dated the check for the day he wrote it. They kept the check for 10 days and tried to cash it. No big deal about the dates.
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Why do you think it would make any difference if he didn't post date the check
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But that was your question!

Obviously since the OP stated the check was not post dated it would not be applicable here. I was merely making a statement regarding the question within your post.
 
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CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
Nameofjim said:
What is the name of your state?What is the name of your state? Ohio
A friend used one of those "check-into-cash" loan places. He exchanged his personal check written in the amount of $137.50, for a $100.00 "cash advance." The check cashing operator promised to "hold" my friend's personal check for 10 business days, before cashing it. My friend claims that his personal check was not post-dated when he gave it to the check cashing operator. After 10 business days the check cashing operator attempted to cash/deposit my friend's personal check; that check was returned "NSF." Has my friend committed a bad check crime?
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I am not familiar with OH law on the matter, but generally if you knowingly write an NSF check you have committed a crime.

What these cash advance places do is allow you to write a check in exchange for cash NOW because you are promising that in 10 days there WILL be money in the account to cover the check.

In my state these tend to be civil concerns and not criminal. My guess is that it is the same in OH - regardless of the date on the check.

- Carl
 
S

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
justalayman said:
But that was your question!
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EXACTLY! What is the difference if he dated it for the day he wrote it, or for 10 day's later? They didn't deposit it untill 10 day's later, anyway's.

Try not to put a spin on my statements, ok?
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
EXACTLY! What is the difference if he dated it for the day he wrote it, or for 10 day's later? They didn't deposit it untill 10 day's later, anyway's.

Try not to put a spin on my statements, ok?
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I was not attempting to put a "spin" on your statements. What I was and still am stating is that there IS a difference as to what date was written on the check.

In many states the criminal provisions regarding bad checks do not apply to post-dated checks. Because post-dated checks are a promise to pay in the future, they are not technically viewed as checks. It has generally been held that post-dated checks are not within the scope of most states’ bad check laws. http://www.tfc-associates.com/news/bad_check_laws.shtm
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To the OP: although the website link above is several years old it may still be accurate. Look at the #5. Time could be a critical element here.
 
S

Shay-Pari'e

Senior Member
justalayman said:
I was not attempting to put a "spin" on your statements. What I was and still am stating is that there IS a difference as to what date was written on the check.



To the OP: although the website link above is several years old it may still be accurate. Look at the #5. Time could be a critical element here.
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I'm going to try and go slow for you.

HE DID NOT POST DATE THE CHECK. I am taking this as meaning he dated the check for the day he wrote it. The Check Cashing place still held it for the 10 day's, as they were supposed to.

NO BIG DEAL about the dates. The check would have cleared had there been money in the account.
 
justalayman

justalayman

Senior Member
--PARIDISE-- said:
I'm going to try and go slow for you.

HE DID NOT POST DATE THE CHECK. I am taking this as meaning he dated the check for the day he wrote it. The Check Cashing place still held it for the 10 day's, as they were supposed to.

NO BIG DEAL about the dates. The check would have cleared had there been money in the account.
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Paradise, I'm not here to argue with you and actually have no basic disagreement with you. Re-read my last post and you will see I am agreeing with you on that point. As I stated before: I was responding to your question to the OP in your very first post in this thread. It was not a condemnation of your advice merely pointing out that it often does make a difference as to what date was put on the check. I am sorry if you took this to be some attack on you or even to be offensive. There was no intent to do so.

So basically:

the OP's friend wrote a check that was NOT post dated.....at face value this is illegal but apparently Ohio statute allows 30 days from notification to remedy before criminal charges are initiated.

IF the check had been post dated there may not be any criminal activity. That changes the action from writing a check to a promissory note. There would be no crime committed as of yet. The "check cashing place" would have to seek civil remedies to regain their funds.
 
N

Nameofjim

Junior Member
Thank You

In re.: my Q about post dated checks:

Thank you for your replies.. albeit there does not seem to be a general consensus. However, I have since had access to a law school web site (Univ of Cincinnati School Of Law) and found that several Ohio cases citing both a 1980 Massachusetts case and a 1992 W. Virginia case.
In sum****:
(Massachusetts) post dated-checks are, indeed, a promisary note and not subject to fraud laws UNLESS it can be clearly proven that the post-dated check was issued with the sole and exclusive intenet to defraud -- such as in a bait & switch conspiracy, in which the crime is not the issuing of the NSF check but rather conspiracy to commit fraud.
(W. VIrginia) payroll advance and check advance companies are in the business of making high risk, unsecured cash advances. While they may not generally subject to laws concering usery (spelling?), fee assessment & interest limitation, neither do they benefit from criminal protections afforded by law. The cash advance operator's intent is that the check is for delayed deposit and is aware that the customer intends the check to be later deposited regardless of the date on the check. Unless the customer admits that the check was intended to defraud the business operator, there is no criminal case to prosecute. It does not even matter that the customer may have been unrealistically hoping-against-all hope, that the money to cover the check MIGHT come from somewhere including an unanticipated windfall, a long-lost relative's estate bequest, or an act of God.
Finally, there appears that there are a number of bankruptcy cases where such debts were fully dischargeable.
Thanks to everyone who contributed a reply.
nameofjim
 
A

AHA

Senior Member
On a side note:

I personally think the laws stink if you are allowed to put any god damn date you want on a check that is considered to be a monetary payment. That's just insane.
 
K

Kane

Member
Layman's right. Post-dating a check does make a difference, at least in my state, and I assume in other states too.
 
CdwJava

CdwJava

Senior Member
AHA said:
On a side note:

I personally think the laws stink if you are allowed to put any god damn date you want on a check that is considered to be a monetary payment. That's just insane.
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It's really no different than signing a note promising to pay the debt on a certain date. In my state, bounced checks are almost always a civil matter absent evidence of fraud or forgery. If a business agrees to accept ANY check they tend to do so at their own risk. But, there MUST be money in accepting these sorts of advanced payments as these businesses are everywhere. And even the local liquor stores that get shafted for hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars every month on fraudulent checks refuse to give up the business. They must be making SOME money!

Heck, we even have a number of stores that refuse to follow their own store policies and then want us to track down the debtors! We have several businesses that we have informed we will not investigate their check fraud and forgery cases as they do not even follow the most SIMPLE procedures (you'd THINK that checking ID and matching the ID with the check and the writer would be a no-brainer ...)!

The one business that does not call us are these cash advance companies. They KNOW the risks and go into it wide open. And when you get an advance, it is a contractual arrangement (a "loan", I suppose ... but at very high interest) and they take the risk of a bad debt openly. No crime out here (unless intent to defraud can be established).

- Carl
 
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