Double encumber my position?

What is the name of your state?Florida

Does anyone know what it means to double encumber a position (mine) I was told that today that my postion number would be changed to anither number and when I got back to work they would put the other person they are hiring to fill in my job somewhere else, or maybe vice versa. Can they do that if your out on disability and I am having a surgery in two weeks and dont know when i will be going back ( I have been on my job 20 years this year and I have been out for three months due to back severe back problems) I was just wondering what they are doing to me now. Any opinions or advice please let me know and thanks.

msmarie said:

What is the name of your state?Florida

Does anyone know what it means to double encumber a position (mine) I was told that today that my postion number would be changed to anither number and when I got back to work they would put the other person they are hiring to fill in my job somewhere else, or maybe vice versa. Can they do that if your out on disability and I am having a surgery in two weeks and dont know when i will be going back ( I have been on my job 20 years this year and I have been out for three months due to back severe back problems) I was just wondering what they are doing to me now. Any opinions or advice please let me know and thanks.

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As far as I can tell "double encumber a position" means you work more but for the same pay.

dont know

No I was told they got permission to hire someone to do my job while I am out something about a double encumber and and b and my position number will be changed but when and if I get back then they will put that person somewhere else, I am confused to the statement they made to me today and I am awaiting a surgery in two weeks, I have been out on short term disability for 3 months now.

I'm not familiar with the phrase, double encumber; however, as I said in the other post where you asked about this, you are only guaranteed 12 weeks of protected medical leave. After that, your employer has no legal obligation to hold your job, or any job, open for you.

Are you stating Florida law because FMLA is 6 months and I have not read anything of the such what you say about the 12 weeks period. Are you also saying they could terminate your job when you are on disability? What would be the reason be for disability benefits if they were to do this? I see your from up north and you are a HR consultant is that a human resoures person. I still would like to know where i can read this about the 12 weeks online for the state of Florida and thanks again.

Florida has no mandatory medical leave whatsoever. FMLA is a Federal law; it is valid in all 50 states, and it is not for six months, it is for 12 weeks. Yes, I am saying they can terminate your job while you are on disabilty. My being from up north does not have anything to do with what the law says. I have had employees in Florida before now. Yes, I am an HR consultant and as such I know more about employment law than a tax attorney or a real estate attorney would. And that's not me saying that; that's coming from three different attorneys (one corporate attorney, one intellectual property attorney, and one real estate attorney) who have contacted me asking for information about employment laws that I knew and they didn't.

Here is the link to the US DOL's discussion of FMLA. Note that it says 12 weeks, not six months.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/fmla/

Here is the link to the Office of Personnel Management's discussion of Federal employee's entitlements to FMLA. Note that it says 12 weeks and not six months.

http://www.opm.gov/oca/leave/html/fmlafact.htm

I cannot direct you to a Florida state discussion since the state of Florida follows Federal regulations and does not have a mandated disability leave to begin with.

You are correct on the FMLA entitlement and let me jot down here what it says on the back of my leave slips. You must be reinstated to the same or an equivalent job with the same pay, benefits, and terms and conditions of employment on your return from leave. If you do not return to work following FMLA leavefor a reason other than !> continuation, recurrence or onset of a serious health condition which would entitle you to FMLA leaveor 2. other circumstances beyond your control, you may be required to reimburse us for our share of health insurance premiums paid on your behalf during your FMLA leave.

Furthermore I am not on FMLA now I am on disability so we are talking two different aspects. Short term disability is for 6 months and I do have long term disability also, so are you saying even with that they could fire me being on disability??? Or give me another position when I am able upon doctors orders ( I am under several doctors care now) to go back to work. This is a big government job, I would hope they wouldnt treat someone with an excellent job history of 20 years to try to oust them out due to health concerns. As I appreciate your input it sounds a little hard. I know up north there are lots of unions I bet they couldnt pull a fast one on you if you were in a union? Now could they?.

No they can not fire you for being on FMLA or disability. I just checked that one out so thats not correct info and it dosent say anything about losing your job when you are on disability. I do believe there would be alot of politicians jump on that one if they were to fire everyone person who had cancer, heart diseaese, etc, thats just ludicrist. My opinion and I just lloked over my plan document for short and long term disability and it does not say anything about losing your job at all. This is from the State of Florida

Okay. One last try.

Yes, I agree that you are not on FMLA now since your 12 weeks has expired.

Short term disability is income protection. It is not now and never has been protected leave time. Once your FMLA has expired, whether you are on short term disability, long term disability, or any disability at all, YES YOU CAN BE FIRED. There are NO circumstances, barring a state law which FLORIDA DOES NOT HAVE, in which your employer is required to hold your job longer than the requisite 12 weeks of FMLA. Since you have exceeded the 12 weeks of FMLA they are NO LONGER OBLIGATED to return you to the same job or any job at all. YES, you can be fired while you are on disability once your FMLA expires. I keep telling you that and you just won't believe me. I don't know why I bother continuing to answer.

I am telling you what the law requires your employer to do and what the law gives your employer permission to do. I am not necessarily telling you what I would do. Don't assume that because I say an employee CAN be fired when FMLA expires automatically means that that's what I would to to my employees.

I have not worked in a union environment of any kind since 1983, with the exception of a 6-week contract job in 2002 where I administered the union STD and LTD claims. IF you are in a union it may give you greater rights; however, that is a contract issue and not a legal issue.

Please sir

I have read your posts and I do not want to hear that I dont want to hear the answers, thats not what this forum is about. You keep stating that you know the laws and on and on but you are NOT an employment or disability attorney so you are not correct in your judgement of me or my present situation. It sounds like you are more for the company and not the employees if you are such a human resource person I sure wouldnt want you being on one side of the fence without considering the employees. You know the empolyees have rights too and whether you feel that my job is in jeopardy well that just isnt so and I will not worry myself with your comments in that regards, While I respect your opinions on this site I dont want you to become argumentative with me on these issues. I see you do not work for the employees so probably not the right person for me to get my forum advice or opnion for that matter. End of discussion and I will consult a Florida attorney may the need arise if they should fire me because of my illness. Could you imagine them doing that to you where you work, so think of it on the other side of the coin for once. Thank you

msmarie;

it sounds like you are confusing FMLA and your companies policy on STD and/or LTD.

Getting back to your original post. All it sounds like they are doing is filling your position while you are gone. As far as encumbering or double encumbering your position, it sounds as if they merely have 2 people assigned to your position,you and your replacement.

As far as what FMLA v. STD rules and requirements are I will defer to cbg, who has been very helpful and correct in prior postings. Which one applies might determine what job you return to. I'll let cbg run from here.

oh I forgot Cmg the FMLA isleave is unpaid and that is per calendar year so every year you do get another 12 weeks.

You cannot be fired BECAUSE you took FMLA or BECAUSE you took disability leave. I never said you could. What I said is that you can be fired DURING your disability leave if your FMLA has expired. I did not give you incorrect information; you interpreted what I said incorrectly.

Calendar year is only one of the possibilities. An employer is not required by law to use a calendar year as the 12 month period; they may use several other options as well.

You have made it absolutely clear that you are not going to believe a thing I say unless it is to tell you that you cannot be fired while you are on disability. By all means consult with a Florida attorney; do come back and tell me what he says. Be sure to get the statute numbers and/or names of any case law if he tells you that as long as you are on disability leave your job is protected indefinitely. But if he knows the law he won't tell you that.

Just a lay man

Thanks so much for the post and I understand what your saying and thats exactly what I was told about the terminology about the recumbered postion of mine, it just got me going on what it actually meant and then I guess Cmg is saying I could be fired on disability time, oh well if thats the way the Good Lord wants it then let it be, but I can tell you one thing after everything that has happened to me on the job and the things they had me doing that make my condition worse I really dont think they would try to do that to me but who knows, I have all my medical documentation and it would be a fight till the end if my good employer should choose to terminate me due to and illness and disease. We have personell dept not human resource people who have compassion and work for the employees not against. I know Cmg keeps emphasizing that I can be fired well I will let him have it his way and like I said only the Man upstairs knows what will happen. God Bless and thanks for writing your post to me. Got to go now

Cmj

Okay you won but I have one last question CMG How and what grounds would someone fire you when your FMLA entitlement is up and you are on disability. On what grounds would they or could they fire you while you are on disability. This is doctor saying I am disabled and his paperwork, not the employee trying to get out of working. I have a big surgery coming up. Do you mean to tell me the doctors' dont have any say so on keeping you out of work due to a health condition? Wow whats the world coming to and this is my last post today okay, I am tired now and thank you again for all your answers even if you think I interpreted you wrong all the time. I can agree to disagree and so can you and its all educational information anyhow not to get too personal with the comments. Again thanks so much and stay warm up there this winter.

God Bless, Msm