Fraud

I filed my taxes this morning. Every odd tax year I am allowed to claim my daughter on my taxes according to the agreement entered into court six years ago.
So far that has not been a problem at least until today. My ex-girlfriend called me this weekend and informed me that by accident the tax place she went to put our daughter on her taxes as a deduction. I find this ironic considering that she got married last year and this will be the first year that she is not able to get the earned income credit.
Nor will she be able to file as head of household because her husband makes more money than she does.
So consequently because she is making good money and so is he and they are married she will not be able to get her annual 6000.00.
That is not really my concern, my concern is I wanted my refund as soon as possible so I can finish my home project.
My question is what will happen? Legally by law and the courts my daugher is my exemption this year.
When my ex called she told me they made a mistake on her taxes and that I should not file mine until March.
Thats when I told her I already had

norm9838 said:

I filed my taxes this morning. Every odd tax year I am allowed to claim my daughter on my taxes according to the agreement entered into court six years ago.
So far that has not been a problem at least until today. My ex-girlfriend called me this weekend and informed me that by accident the tax place she went to put our daughter on her taxes as a deduction. I find this ironic considering that she got married last year and this will be the first year that she is not able to get the earned income credit.
Nor will she be able to file as head of household because her husband makes more money than she does.
So consequently because she is making good money and so is he and they are married she will not be able to get her annual 6000.00.
That is not really my concern, my concern is I wanted my refund as soon as possible so I can finish my home project.
My question is what will happen? Legally by law and the courts my daugher is my exemption this year.
When my ex called she told me they made a mistake on her taxes and that I should not file mine until March.
Thats when I told her I already had

Click to expand...

Legally, what will happen is that your return is going to get rejected (electronically) if mom's return got there first.

Then, your only option will be to file a paper return. You will still get your refund but it will take 4-6 weeks to receive it via a paper return. Then later on the IRS will investigate and determine who the exemption really belonged to, and will handle it accordingly.

Unfortunately, based on the information that my office just received I am not sure who the IRS would give the exemption to.

Our office was just advised that there were new decisions made in late december that could completely contractict everything in the IRS publications for 2005.

Previously the rules required that the ncp could only get the exemption if the cp signed a form 8332 or if there was a signed divorce agreement stating that the ncp could claim the exemption.....however the IRS generally honored court orders.

It appeared that the new rules for 2005 allowed for the ncp to claim the exemption by just a court order...the cps agreement was no longer required.

Now, apparently under BRAND NEW rules....the IRS is going to flat out require form 8332...no matter what....and is going to leave state court orders up to the enforcement of the state court judge.....and penalties up to the state court judge.

So.....apparently everything is up in the air at the moment.

ARG

LdiJ said:

Legally, what will happen is that your return is going to get rejected (electronically) if mom's return got there first.

Then, your only option will be to file a paper return. You will still get your refund but it will take 4-6 weeks to receive it via a paper return. Then later on the IRS will investigate and determine who the exemption really belonged to, and will handle it accordingly.

Unfortunately, based on the information that my office just received I am not sure who the IRS would give the exemption to.

Our office was just advised that there were new decisions made in late december that could completely contractict everything in the IRS publications for 2005.

Previously the rules required that the ncp could only get the exemption if the cp signed a form 8332 or if there was a signed divorce agreement stating that the ncp could claim the exemption.....however the IRS generally honored court orders.

It appeared that the new rules for 2005 allowed for the ncp to claim the exemption by just a court order...the cps agreement was no longer required.

Now, apparently under BRAND NEW rules....the IRS is going to flat out require form 8332...no matter what....and is going to leave state court orders up to the enforcement of the state court judge.....and penalties up to the state court judge.

So.....apparently everything is up in the air at the moment.

ARG

Click to expand...

Were there not other years that the IRS would only honor the 8332? I ask out of curiosity because I had been told that previously (5 or 6 years ago), and thought that was crappy because how the heck do you get a noncooperative CP to sign it other than hauling them back into state court getting the judge to make them sign out..I know, the CP in many cases originally agreed, but years down the road when they get remarried new spouse doesn't think its fair. Just wondering.

Unfortunately, mistakes like this happen. If your return rejects, you can still efile if you take your daughter off the return. Then you have the option of either amending your return & including the custody decree/8332 & waiting 8 weeks for the IRS to send out the money, OR you could tell your ex how much her mistake cost you & let her reimburse you directly for the refund you lost. That way *she* doens't have to amend her return or deal with the IRS either.

LdiJ,

The new law is actually worse than that. It was the IRS' intention that the use of 8332 eventually be phased out altogether. The actual law reads that only court orders that existed prior to the law could be used in lieu of 8332.

At present, the IRS is ignoring the law...

Snipes

Snipes5 said:

LdiJ,

The new law is actually worse than that. It was the IRS' intention that the use of 8332 eventually be phased out altogether. The actual law reads that only court orders that existed prior to the law could be used in lieu of 8332.

At present, the IRS is ignoring the law...

Snipes

Click to expand...

What is you understanding of exactly how the law reads now?...and exactly how the IRS intends to handle things? I am getting differing information on the change that happened in late december.

What we were told is that the IRS is going to be ignoring all court orders, going strictly by tax law as to who gets the exemption, unless a form 8332 is signed by the CP, and that it will be up to the state court judges to police their state court rulings, via contempt charges etc.

If your contention is right, and they intend to phase out form 8332, are you saying that ncp's will NEVER be able to take the exemption for children? I expected the IRS to eventually take the power of making orders regarding the tax exemption away from state court judges....but I never expected them to take it so far as to get rid of form 8332. Do you think that will actually get by Congress?

I did file my taxes yesterday before she called and today it came back rejected. It said only one dependent can be used on one tax return. We both have filed our own taxes for the last six years now. Never before on odd years did she ever claim my daughter as a dependent only as a qualifying child because she could file head of household and get the earned income credit.
Last year she got married in May and I know her and her husband probably made too much money for the earned income credit but I am sure she wanted the exemption so they would get something back. Too, they supposedly told my daughter they were buying a large pool for her.
I am already going into court with her over child visitation contempt so this is just icing ontop of the cake. She refused me visitation at Thanksgiving supposedly because she says my daughter is old enough to make her own decisions. she's 12. Then she tried to not let me have her from Dec 26 till the 1st even though thats what are papers state.
I am ready to file contempt for this too. It just keeps getting better and better. My attorney filed for full remembursement of all fees. So I guess will just add this too.
In the past years I never needed the forms because I have a court decree.
Do you think if I would get the other form and have her sign it and refile my taxes that they will reject them or will I have to file a paper return? Especially if hers has been accepted

This is a load of crap. I went last year and had to go to the child support office to get credit for summer visitation applied to my account for all the past years so they would not hold my state check. She now owes me over 2000.00 in arrearage. I am only suppose to pay half during the summer but i have my child support removed from my check and they will not mess with changing the amount during the summer.

So I use to think I wanted to be a nice person but you know I am beginning to think no more. No more tucking all the crap she does under the mat. No more answering the phone six years later and telling her bill collectors that I do not have an addess or phone number for her. Besides I am tired of them calling here. So from now on I will just give them the information they need so they will leave me alone. Let him and her handle it.

My interpretation right now is that no 8332 is allowed for Never-Married parents, but is allowed if there is an existing court order, properly signed BY THE PARENTS. Since most court orders are signed by attorneys and NOT by the parents, most of them would not be valid as 8332 substitutes.

Also, in my reading of the IRS ' proposal in 2002, it appears they wish to phase out all such court orders...

However, the IRS is currently ignoring the law and is accepting 8332 from divorced and never-married parents, so we are accepting them at my workplace.

It is still quite a mess, and many of us are waiting for IRS clarification, which will probably come sometime this summer...

Snipes

LdiJ: here's the old and new wording of the statute. You will see that Congress made substantial changes to the law. I believe that this was because Congress heard the plea of the state court judges who are tired of wasting their time with 126 contempt proceedings when CPs won't sign an 8332 because of some reason that boils down to 'I'm mad at my ex.' Accepting a court order signed by a judge lets the NCP bypass form 8332.

OLD LAW:
(2) Exception where custodial parent releases claim to exemption for the year
A child of parents described in paragraph (1) shall be treated as having received over half of his support during a calendar year from the noncustodial parent if—
(A) the custodial parent signs a written declaration (in such manner and form as the Secretary may by regulations prescribe) that such custodial parent will not claim such child as a dependent for any taxable year beginning in such calendar year, and
(B) the noncustodial parent attaches such written declaration to the noncustodial parent’s return for the taxable year beginning during such calendar year.

==========================
NEW LAW:
(e) SPECIAL RULE FOR DIVORCED PARENTS-
[NCP can claim the kid if the parents provided over 1/2 the kid's support & the kid lived with them over 1/2 the year, and]
"such child shall be treated as being the qualifying child or qualifying relative of the noncustodial parent for a calendar year if the requirements described in paragraph (2) are met."

(2) REQUIREMENTS- For purposes of paragraph (1), the requirements described in this paragraph are met if--
(A) a decree of divorce or separate maintenance or written separation agreement between the parents applicable to the taxable year beginning in such calendar year provides that--
(i) the noncustodial parent shall be entitled to any deduction allowable under section 151 for such child, or
(ii) the custodial parent will sign a written declaration (in such manner and form as the Secretary may prescribe) that such parent will not claim such child as a dependent for such taxable year, or

(B) in the case of such an agreement executed before January 1, 1985, the noncustodial parent provides at least $600 for the support of such child during such calendar year.

For purposes of subparagraph (B), amounts expended for the support of a child or children shall be treated as received from the noncustodial parent to the extent that such parent provided amounts for such support.

===============================

So, paraphrasing the new law, a NCP gets to claim the kid if the divorce/maintenance/separation agreement says s/he does, or if it says that the CP has to sign a form 8332 or equivalent.

Thus, the IRS will have to accept divorce orders, whether signed by the CP or not. Although given how enamoured they are of their own infallibility, it will probably take a scathing court decision to hammer this into the bureaucratic mindset.

Please note: the only context in which the IRS can now accept an 8332 is if a divorce/maintenance/separation agreement requires the CP to sign. SO, if the parents were never married, they can't have those kinds of agreements. There is no provision for a CP to voluntarily waive the exemption. The IRS pubs are ignoring this too & saying they will accept an 8332 from never-married parents. I don't see how this is going to get challenged in court, unless some CP claims their kid and argues that the court support order letting the NCP claim the kid is void because it is in violation of the tax code.


Is it any wonder the IRS is confused?

Well I called her today and told her that my return was rejected. She then told me that she told H & R Block that there was a mistake and that she was not allowed to claim our daughter on her and her husbands tax return. Then she told me that nothing could be done until March about it.
Well I know from being on the H & R Block website that they do file amended returns. So yet she lies again and I have her on tape stating that nothing could be done.
I am not as ignorant as she thinks I know that her return has probably been accepted and she has probably applied for rapid refund. So she wants me to wait. Well I told her that I could refile if she signs the 8332 form and she said she would maybe, was her exact words. Well if not I will just have my attorney file more comtempt charges. Mayve if I am lucky eventually I will just have my daughter living with me.

Well, just kindly write a letter to your ex stating that you will be reporting her to the tax authority if she refuses to amend her tax return immediately (within 3 days), and do what you were advised by others here - to file a paper return and wait for the IRS to grant you the right to your daughter's deduction. It looks like you will win in the end. She may come to her senses if you give her a written notice...or is she really thick skinned?

This woman is really nasty. I wish you good luck.

She isn't lying. They can't file an amended return until the refund shows up from the first one. It is standard procedure to wait about 6 weeks after filing before filing an amendment.

Snipes

Show me the money

At 7pm she showed up tonight to pick up my daughter. I took the paper out with me for her to sign. She then announced to me that she was signing nothing because it might cause me to be audited. Ha my tax information is spotless. Then her and her husband said yet again that nothing could be done until March and she wants me to wait and file my taxes then.

Then she proceded to tell me that they had already gotten their money. Talk about a slap in the face. Well I doubt she went to H & R Block. My fiancee has gone and had her taxes done there for over 18 years now and she said they would of asked straight forward about changes in filing status and dependents. Especially considering that my daughters last name is not the same as her and her husbands. My fiancee also usually filed rapid refund and she said it usually took 24-48hrs to get that done and get the money.

Now they have a place called Jackson Hewitt who has the Now Loan which from what I understand you can get part of your money right away.

I know thats not money from the government but a loan from a finance company. I am going to refile my taxes with my documentation concerning my right to take the exemption for my daughter. I am also contacting my attorney and seeing if I can have contempt charges filed on her.

I am also going to check with the irs and see if I can report her for fraud. At the bottom of your tax forms it says under the penalty of perjury I have examined this return and all attachments and to the best of my knowledge and belief it is true.

She perjured herself when she claimed my daughter and come hell or high water I will get whats rightfully mine.

If you file a paper return you will get what is rightfully yours without any problems. She and her husband are the ones who will have to deal with the IRS and pay back the excess refund. If for some reason that doesn't happen, then you have the option of contempt of court.