• FreeAdvice has a new Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, effective May 25, 2018.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our Terms of Service and use of cookies.

Required to Tell?

Accident - Bankruptcy - Criminal Law / DUI - Business - Consumer - Employment - Family - Immigration - Real Estate - Tax - Traffic - Wills   Please click a topic or scroll down for more.

jamhunt

Member
I am from NC. Is there a law that requires you to tell if a vehicle has been involved in an accident when making a trade with a dealership. I did not tell them because they did their own inspection and liked the car. However, some other guy thinks that I should have told the dealership about the damage which was fixed.
 
Last edited:


genivieve

Member
jamhunt said:
I am from NC. Is there a law that requires you to tell if a vehicle has been involved in an accident when making a trade with a dealership. I did not tell them because they did their own inspection and liked the car. However, some other guy thinks that I should have told the dealership about the damage which was fixed.

The garage inspected the car themselves. Most all garages will see repairs done to vehicles, it takes a trained eye. Common signs are primer-finesse in the door jams/windshield rubber/tail light assembles, stickers missing from doors, over spray, colors very very similiar but not matching due to years of fade and weather, and of course replaced part numbers.

Your vehicle was a trade in, so I would go to bed and sleep well not worrying. If you had sold the vehicle to a private person, then you should tell them. On NY titles your required to check a box if the car has been wrecked or totaled out to your knowledge. I havent seen too many NC titles, does yours have this?

Was your car totaled by the insurance co, and you bought it back then repaired it? If it was not totaled out then there would be no record (Car FAX) of a collison. Also keep in mind most trade-ins are brought right to the zoo (car auction) when they are standing up on the podium bumping the auctioneer do you actually think they are yelling out Previous Collison History!! :p
 

jamhunt

Member
Trade in

Yes, the car was salvaged at some point. However, I was not aware of the salvaged title due to the fact that the title was not branded salvaged when I bought it and is still not branded. Also the used car salesman told me that the car was not a salvaged titled vehicle. Moreover, I did not sign any notice that the car was a salvaged vehicle car. At any rate, the dealership that I traded with did not bother to check the vehicle history and later found out that the car had a salvaged history by a thrid party that bought the car from them. Interestingly enough, the dealership thought the car was a great trade and gave me a reasonable amount for it. Anyway, the dealer is upset with me and says that I lied about my knowledge of the car history. Oh, they also had a lawyer send me a notice that I should buy the car back from the dealer. I say no way. The deal was unfortunate for them but they had all means to verify my trade-in before the deal was sealed. Actually, I believe that the dealer had a greater obligation to verify that the car was in good standing before they closed the deal to protect themselves and the consumer. As far as I am concerned this is a case of Caveat Emptor. Would you agree?
 

genivieve

Member
jamhunt said:
Yes, the car was salvaged at some point. However, I was not aware of the salvaged title due to the fact that the title was not branded salvaged when I bought it and is still not branded. Also the used car salesman told me that the car was not a salvaged titled vehicle. Moreover, I did not sign any notice that the car was a salvaged vehicle car. At any rate, the dealership that I traded with did not bother to check the vehicle history and later found out that the car had a salvaged history by a thrid party that bought the car from them. Interestingly enough, the dealership thought the car was a great trade and gave me a reasonable amount for it. Anyway, the dealer is upset with me and says that I lied about my knowledge of the car history. Oh, they also had a lawyer send me a notice that I should buy the car back from the dealer. I say no way. The deal was unfortunate for them but they had all means to verify my trade-in before the deal was sealed. Actually, I believe that the dealer had a greater obligation to verify that the car was in good standing before they closed the deal to protect themselves and the consumer. As far as I am concerned this is a case of Caveat Emptor. Would you agree?
Very much so. Most dealers use the car fax system before placing a trade in back on their lot. The car does not have a salvage title which would be clearly stated on the title. Tell the car dealer to go sh*t in his hat. If he did not ask you about previous history, examined the car before the trade and found it worthy then its his fault. That would be what dealers call "Buyer Beware".

Almost 80% of cars have been in one accident or another during their life time, if we junked ever car that had been boy would retail new car dealers make money.
 

jamhunt

Member
Conclusion

3 questions:
My lawyer will provide the dealership with a legal response to their claim of fraud and deception. The letter that my lawyer provides the dealership with will hopefully cause them to back down. I had to pay the lawyer $200.00 to write the legal response. I could have written a response myself but I'm sure that it carries more weight coming from an actual law office. I did provide the lawyer with all the details. If the dealership still wants to go to court with this case then I'm not sure that I would be able to cover lawyer fees on my behalf considering it cost me $200.00 for them to write a letter of response. (1) Is this something that I could defend myself? (2) If we did go to court is it possible that I could sue the dealership for fees to cover a lawyer. (3) What do the different color bubbles beside usernames mean?
 
Last edited:

genivieve

Member
jamhunt said:
3 questions:
My lawyer will provide the dealership with a legal response to their claim of fraud and deception. The letter that my lawyer provides the dealership with will hopefully cause them to back down. I had to pay the lawyer $200.00 to write the legal response. I could have written a response myself but I'm sure that it carries more weight coming from an actual law office. I did provide the lawyer with all the details. If the dealership still wants to go to court with this case then I'm not sure that I would be able to cover lawyer fees on my behalf considering it cost me $200.00 for them to write a letter of response.


(1) Is this something that I could defend myself? Play dumb and say for forgot?
(2) If we did go to court is it possible that I could sue the dealership for fees to cover a lawyer.

You can try, but seriously you probably wont go to court. Many people who attain a lawyer usually are just trying to conerice you into fixing the problem. And course a lawyer is always willing to write a scare tactic letter because he is getting paid for it. Again tell him to go sh*t in hat. (3) What do the different color bubbles beside usernames mean?
The bubble lit up in green states that user is on, but like myself I like to hide so my bubble is never lit up.
 

jamhunt

Member
Final thoughts

I will let the dealership make the next move (if there is one). They probably will not continue forward with their bogus claim of fraud. I will update this post if I go to court or if there are any new developments. Thanks for the advise and words of empowerment. Although, I never told the dealership to go **** in their hat:) Peace Out!
 
A quick addendum to this story: Be on the alert for "totalled"vehicles from hurricane Katrina that are being "rehabilitated" and resold without disclosing their salvage status. The crooks typically register and reregister the car (usually high-end type vehicles) until the salvage brand on the title disappears. Ebay would be a likely place to find such duds.

Hey, if it looks to good to be true...
 

dallas702

Senior Member
Unless the dealer or his lawyer can cite a specifc statute that you have violated, you have nothing to worry about.
 

jamhunt

Member
Statute Cited

NCGS 20-71.4, is the statute that was cited. The dealer's lawyer cited this statue in his letter to me. However, I did not know that the car had been salvaged when I purchased it. I had every reason and did believe the car to be a clear titled vehicle (the title was clear, no brand). Frankly, I blame the dealer for all of this mess. He should have confirmed the vehicle at some point during the transaction. Actually, he never did check the history. A third party bought the car from him and they found out that it had a salvaged history.
 

dallas702

Senior Member
Then the dealer is just as guilty as you might be. Actually, moreso because he is a professional in the business of buying/selling cars and should know all the laws regarding these transactions. He has a much greater duty than you to abide by the laws.

Give us the quoted cite he is using to say YOU violated the law. Do the words "knowingly" or "intentionally" appear in there?
 

jamhunt

Member
Statute Cited Below

§ 20‑71.4. Failure to disclose damage to a vehicle shall be a misdemeanor.

(a) It shall be unlawful for any transferor of a motor vehicle to do any of the following:

(1) Transfer a motor vehicle up to and including five model years old when the transferor has knowledge that the vehicle has been involved in a collision or other occurrence to the extent that the cost of repairing that vehicle, excluding the cost to replace the air bag restraint system, exceeds twenty‑five percent (25%) of its fair market retail value at the time of the collision or other occurrence, without disclosing that fact in writing to the transferee prior to the transfer of the vehicle.

(2) Transfer a motor vehicle when the transferor has knowledgethat the vehicle is, or was, a flood vehicle, a reconstructed vehicle, or a salvage motor vehicle, without disclosing that fact in writing to the transferee prior to the transfer of the vehicle.

(a1) For purposes of this section, the term "five model years" shall be calculated by counting the model year of the vehicle's manufacture as the first model year and the current calendar year as the final model year. Failure to disclose any of the information required under subsection (a) of this section that is within the knowledge of the transferor will also result in civil liability under G.S. 20‑348. The Commissioner may prepare forms to carry out the provisions of this section.

(b) It shall be unlawful for any person to remove the title or supporting documents to any motor vehicle from the State of North Carolina with the intent to conceal damage (or damage which has been repaired) occurring as a result of a collision or other occurrence.

(c) It shall be unlawful for any person to remove, tamper with, alter, or conceal the "TOTAL LOSS CLAIM VEHICLE" tamperproof permanent marker that is affixed to the doorjamb of any total loss claim vehicle. It shall be unlawful for any person to reconstruct a total loss claim vehicle and not include or affix a "TOTAL LOSS CLAIM VEHICLE" tamperproof permanent marker to the doorjamb of the rebuilt vehicle. Violation of this subsection shall constitute a Class I felony, punishable by a fine of not less than five thousand dollars ($5,000) for each offense.

(d) Violation of subsections (a) and (b) of this section shall constitute a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1987, c. 607, s. 1; 1987 (Reg. Sess., 1988), c. 1105, s. 3; 1989, c. 455, s. 4; 1989 (Reg. Sess., 1990), c. 916, s. 2; 1993, c. 539, s. 337; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1998‑212, s. 27.8(b); 2003‑258, s. 2.)


I had no knowlegde of the vehicle history. All evidence and even the car salesman indicated that the title was clear.
 
Last edited:

dallas702

Senior Member
"I had no knowlegde of the vehicle history. All evidence and even the car salesman indicated that the title was clear."

Exactly! You are one of perhaps several innocent parties in a list of transactions. Since you are not a professional in the industry you not only have the defense of "no knowledge", but that you also had no duty or training to have the knowledge. Your clear title speaks for itself.
 

jamhunt

Member
Thanks

Thanks everyone for all of the feedback. I will update this post if there is any additional information.
 

jamhunt

Member
Help

I purchased the car in 2002 and did sign a salvaged vehicle disclaimer unknowingly at the time of the sell. I paid $26,000 for the $30,000 used car and the salesman told me that it was a clear title. The title is clear but the car has a salvaged history. I did not know that the car was salvaged. However, I found out just last week that I did sign a disclosure when I bought the car. I signed so much paperwork that day. The dealer now has an attorney and wants to take it to court because he says I knowingly traded the salvaged title vehicle. Please read the earlier posts for full details. Can I win this without a lawyer?
 

Find the Right Lawyer for Your Legal Issue!

Fast, Free, and Confidential
data-ad-format="auto">
Top