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Chevy Malibu intake manifold gasket

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Jeffery

Junior Member
What is the name of your state? Washington
I too have been having problems with my 1998 Malibu. I purchased it for my son thinking it would be a reliable car. I usually buy imports but thought we would give chevy a try. Several months after driving the car, the low antifreeze light comes on. I refilled it and the next morning it came on again but there was no appearent leak under the car. I looked at the oil on the dip stick and it was 6 inches above the max fill line. The antifreeze went into the oil. After reveiwing the threads on this sight, I figured it was the intake gasket problem. I bought a manual and the parts. When I went in to purchase the parts, the parts guy just grabbed em off the shelf not looking up the parts numbers. I asked him if he was sure they were correct and he told me he does lots of these gaskets and has them memorized. He grinned as he told me this. This upset me. I tore the engine down and removed the intake gasket. This took me 6 hours. As I was pulling it off, it crumbled in my hand. It appeared to be made out of some type of plastic.
I could see where the water was leakig around it into the engine. The bolts that held the intake on were almost finger tight. As the gasket deteriated, the bolts loosened. The bolts are required to be torqued low because of the plastic gasket design. This appears to compound the problem. As I pulled the new gasket out of the wrapper, it looked identical to the one I pulled out.
Plastic. Eight years later and a known engineering problem and the same plastic gasket. It doesnt appear to have any improvements made to it but I could be wrong. An 8 year neighbor kid was watching me do the repair. He asked me why the gasket wasnt made out of metal. I shrugged my shoulders and stated, not sure. I fealt a little embarressed. I told him it was super plastic. I finished the repair and flused the engine and it runs fine now.
Not sure when the plasic will go out again so we are probably going to sell the car. Somebody mentioned on a previous thread about Japans technoligy after WW2. Most of that technoligy was taught to Japan by Dr Demming.
He taught the Japanese to improve upon improvement.(Kaizeen). And to use the employees ideas on improving efficency on the assembly lines. Basically, most ideas originated from the employees on the floor and the customer. Most of the original technoligy originated in America. Japan knew how to improve it.
That is why they are doing so well. Some American factories are applying the Deming theory with excellent results. The bottom line is, what is being done about this gasket? After reading all the threads, It appears to be an ongoing problem that never goes away. Year after year. I really feel bad about the single moms out there that posted previous theads that have to put up with the high repair costs of trying to keep their car running on fixed incomes.
It is not fair. Not sure what it will take to improve the American car industry but I hope they do something.
My back is so sore right now from changing out that gasket, I need to lay down.
P.S. Why havent these cars been recalled?What is the name of your state?
 


HomeGuru

Senior Member
Jeffery said:
What is the name of your state? Washington
I too have been having problems with my 1998 Malibu. I purchased it for my son thinking it would be a reliable car. I usually buy imports but thought we would give chevy a try. Several months after driving the car, the low antifreeze light comes on. I refilled it and the next morning it came on again but there was no appearent leak under the car. I looked at the oil on the dip stick and it was 6 inches above the max fill line. The antifreeze went into the oil. After reveiwing the threads on this sight, I figured it was the intake gasket problem. I bought a manual and the parts. When I went in to purchase the parts, the parts guy just grabbed em off the shelf not looking up the parts numbers. I asked him if he was sure they were correct and he told me he does lots of these gaskets and has them memorized. He grinned as he told me this. This upset me. I tore the engine down and removed the intake gasket. This took me 6 hours. As I was pulling it off, it crumbled in my hand. It appeared to be made out of some type of plastic.
I could see where the water was leakig around it into the engine. The bolts that held the intake on were almost finger tight. As the gasket deteriated, the bolts loosened. The bolts are required to be torqued low because of the plastic gasket design. This appears to compound the problem. As I pulled the new gasket out of the wrapper, it looked identical to the one I pulled out.
Plastic. Eight years later and a known engineering problem and the same plastic gasket. It doesnt appear to have any improvements made to it but I could be wrong. An 8 year neighbor kid was watching me do the repair. He asked me why the gasket wasnt made out of metal. I shrugged my shoulders and stated, not sure. I fealt a little embarressed. I told him it was super plastic. I finished the repair and flused the engine and it runs fine now.
Not sure when the plasic will go out again so we are probably going to sell the car. Somebody mentioned on a previous thread about Japans technoligy after WW2. Most of that technoligy was taught to Japan by Dr Demming.
He taught the Japanese to improve upon improvement.(Kaizeen). And to use the employees ideas on improving efficency on the assembly lines. Basically, most ideas originated from the employees on the floor and the customer. Most of the original technoligy originated in America. Japan knew how to improve it.
That is why they are doing so well. Some American factories are applying the Deming theory with excellent results. The bottom line is, what is being done about this gasket? After reading all the threads, It appears to be an ongoing problem that never goes away. Year after year. I really feel bad about the single moms out there that posted previous theads that have to put up with the high repair costs of trying to keep their car running on fixed incomes.
It is not fair. Not sure what it will take to improve the American car industry but I hope they do something.
My back is so sore right now from changing out that gasket, I need to lay down.
P.S. Why havent these cars been recalled?What is the name of your state?

**A: I don't know. Ask the federal government.
 
I own an automotive repair facility plus I also teach automotive technology part time.

I understand your frustration. This must have been the infamous 3.4L motor.

The problem here isn't the gasket as much as it is the coolant that GM uses. The DEXCOOL (R) coolant is garbage. It eats everything in the cooling system from the inside out. Anything where theres a coolant passage, it eats alive (i.e. head gaskets, freeze plugs, water pumps, radiators, etc). I would flush all that crap out and install Prestone aluminum glycol (the green stuff). Several other manufacturers have their own version of 100,000 mile coolant (toyota and honda for 2). I always recommend replacing their stuff with good old aluminum glycol that your dog cant drink. So what if he can drink DEXCOOL, it'll distroy your engine.

Lastly... having had that much water mixed in the engine will eventually caused the connecting rod or main bearings to fail. It'll just be a matter of time. It's not if, it'll be when. Get rid of the car.

If I'm not mistaken, I heard talk of a class action suit against GM regarding DEXCOOL. You might want to google it to see if I know what I'm talking about. I've never checked into it myself.

The other problems this has caused has been broken pistons, connecting rods, and engine blocks if enough of the coolang rushes into the intake chamber fast enough while the engine is running or is just being started (hydralically locking the cylinder).

Hope this helps.

John
 

Jeffery

Junior Member
Thanks for the advise

Thanks for the advise. I will flush out the coolant this weekend and put in the green stuff. Just wasnt sure if you could use the green stuff. The dealer just didnt know. The engine sounds real smooth right now so I will probably unload it as U suggest. I will check into the class action suit and jump on board if there is one.
Thanks again,
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
JSAautomotive said:
I own an automotive repair facility plus I also teach automotive technology part time.

I understand your frustration. This must have been the infamous 3.4L motor.

The problem here isn't the gasket as much as it is the coolant that GM uses. The DEXCOOL (R) coolant is garbage. It eats everything in the cooling system from the inside out. Anything where theres a coolant passage, it eats alive (i.e. head gaskets, freeze plugs, water pumps, radiators, etc). I would flush all that crap out and install Prestone aluminum glycol (the green stuff). Several other manufacturers have their own version of 100,000 mile coolant (toyota and honda for 2). I always recommend replacing their stuff with good old aluminum glycol that your dog cant drink. So what if he can drink DEXCOOL, it'll distroy your engine.

Lastly... having had that much water mixed in the engine will eventually caused the connecting rod or main bearings to fail. It'll just be a matter of time. It's not if, it'll be when. Get rid of the car.

If I'm not mistaken, I heard talk of a class action suit against GM regarding DEXCOOL. You might want to google it to see if I know what I'm talking about. I've never checked into it myself.

The other problems this has caused has been broken pistons, connecting rods, and engine blocks if enough of the coolang rushes into the intake chamber fast enough while the engine is running or is just being started (hydralically locking the cylinder).

Hope this helps.

John


While I agree with what you have said here- actually posted the same myself a few months back, you and I both know that this problem is easily avoided with proper maintenance.....
 
Zephyr...

I totally agree with you. If the coolant were replaced at around the 30K mark, the intake gaskets would have probably not failed. But when you have a manufacturer stating that their coolant is designed to go 100K without replacement, then you have a big problem.

Here's a little story.

I used to work at a Pontiac/Buick GMC dealer here in Woodland Hills, Ca called Livingston Motor Cars. I'm still friends with the service Mgr Jerry Leakwald, the owners, and most of the tech/parts guys.

I called Jerry one day regarding a Pontaic Grand Am with the same sob story about the 3.4L intake gaskets. I was trying to help my customer get it fixed for free under GM's tab. I figured Jerry could just sweep it under the rug even though she (a sick and elderly woman on social security.... has to drive around with oxygen tanks) was out of her warranty period. Jerry being the nice guy he is took care of it for me. Maybe my spending $3K a month with their parts dept had something to do with it..... I don't know. But anyway... I asked Jerry... "what is GM doing to take care of this with the public.... I mean they know it's their coolant that is causing all the problems here". Jerry told me that they do not get paid their warranty labor/part by GM if they don't put that crap back into the cooling system. Amazing huh??
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
BUT- there are service schedules recommended by the manufacturer- as a coolant, dexcool is superior, why people continue to not educate themselves on the proper care of their second biggest investment is beyond me.....

just so people do not have the intake issues, we will routinely recommend any vehicle with the appropriate mileage that has dexcool in it's system to have a coolant flush and replace with green.....why because people are too lazy to take care of their cars


I do think that GM has a responsibilty to address this problem in future production, but these people answer has always been sitting right there in their glove box- the owners manual- WHAT ? what's that you say?!?!?! it this handy dandy little book that outlines what your car needs.....
 
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Jeffery

Junior Member
Shame on U

Zephyr...
If I worked for GM, I wouldn't want you on any improvement teams. This is the type of mentality that is dragging GM down. Need to stop blaming the consumer and address the problem and fix it. My other cars don't do this. Look up Dr. Demming and his teachings on business practices in Japan. We applied his principles at a food processing plant that I managed and we turned an almost bankrupt company into the most profitable food processing plant in the United states. I am now retired. GM has alot of overhaul work to do. With China hitting the market soon, the American car will be bankrupt if they dont get serious. America is a great inventer but they cant seem to improve the product. They dont listen to the consumer. When Japan gets ahold of it and we are litterly screwed.The parts counter guy that sold me parts for my malibu intake gasket repair had a smerk on his face. I will never forget it. GM needs to profit in sells not repairs. People are wising up.
Jeffery
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
Jeffery said:
Zephyr...
If I worked for GM, I wouldn't want you on any improvement teams. This is the type of mentality that is dragging GM down. Need to stop blaming the consumer and address the problem and fix it. My other cars don't do this. Look up Dr. Demming and his teachings on business practices in Japan. We applied his principles at a food processing plant that I managed and we turned an almost bankrupt company into the most profitable food processing plant in the United states. I am now retired. GM has alot of overhaul work to do. With China hitting the market soon, the American car will be bankrupt if they dont get serious. America is a great inventer but they cant seem to improve the product. They dont listen to the consumer. When Japan gets ahold of it and we are litterly screwed.The parts counter guy that sold me parts for my malibu intake gasket repair had a smerk on his face. I will never forget it. GM needs to profit in sells not repairs. People are wising up.
Jeffery

what mentality? I said it's a substandard design that needs improvement, but just because it is a poor design does not totally absolve the consumer from maintaining their property:rolleyes:


sheesh when will people in this country quit having their hands out:rolleyes:

show me one person who maintained their dexcool gm as per the manufacturer guidelines that still has the problem you do- I will take every word back.....
 

moyaya02

Junior Member
Thank you all for the information. I am in the same problem. coolant leaks into oil.

Now I am willing to pay to replace the gasket with a new one (around 600$ job). But are there any expectations things would not go wrong again? how many miles should I expect the car to travel after fixing? has it been confirmed that using the typical green coolant solves the problem with a good gasket? I read somewehre on the net that GM came up with a new gasket design that solves the problem? is that right?
or shall I just get rid of the car?

Thanks a lot in advance.
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
moyaya02 said:
Thank you all for the information. I am in the same problem. coolant leaks into oil.

Now I am willing to pay to replace the gasket with a new one (around 600$ job). But are there any expectations things would not go wrong again? how many miles should I expect the car to travel after fixing? has it been confirmed that using the typical green coolant solves the problem with a good gasket? I read somewehre on the net that GM came up with a new gasket design that solves the problem? is that right?
or shall I just get rid of the car?

Thanks a lot in advance.
yes switching to green coolant after replacing the gasket will prevent the issue from happening again- the problem, like JSA said is the dexcool coolant turns acidic- and acid deteriorates things, almost every time we have a dexcool car in we recommend they switch to green, don't forget to do a coolant flush
 

cmedjesky

Junior Member
Green okay for Lumina as well?

I know the make-up of the car's engine is nearly identical if not identical, but I did want to confirm that I can switch the green coolant for my 99 Lumina (3.1 engine). I was just bit by the GM problem today and if switching to this coolant will help prevent this happening again I'll be glad to do it.

What I'm at it, I've had a HUGE range of price quotes for this problem: Pepboys - $900, Meineke - $850, ProCare -$6-700, one Chevy dealership - $1200, a second Chevy Dealership - $450, Midas - $400.

Midas asked me the exact same questions and gave me the exact same price quote for the part and estimated time to fix, so obviously I went with that one. Did anyone else run into this huge range of price though?

All of these places are within a 15 minute drive of one another too. Strange.

Thanks,

Chris - Pennsylvania
 

Zephyr

Senior Member
cmedjesky said:
I know the make-up of the car's engine is nearly identical if not identical, but I did want to confirm that I can switch the green coolant for my 99 Lumina (3.1 engine). I was just bit by the GM problem today and if switching to this coolant will help prevent this happening again I'll be glad to do it.

What I'm at it, I've had a HUGE range of price quotes for this problem: Pepboys - $900, Meineke - $850, ProCare -$6-700, one Chevy dealership - $1200, a second Chevy Dealership - $450, Midas - $400.

Midas asked me the exact same questions and gave me the exact same price quote for the part and estimated time to fix, so obviously I went with that one. Did anyone else run into this huge range of price though?

All of these places are within a 15 minute drive of one another too. Strange.

Thanks,

Chris - Pennsylvania
yes you can switch to green, different shops can have extremely different labor rates, and or buy different parts, 400 does seem a little on the low side- 6-800 is good range for that car in my area......
 

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