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Is this misconduct

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acmb05

Senior Member
What is the name of your state? Tennesee

My cousin went to court this morning and got custody of his daughter. The mother did not show up and this is also the second court date for this as the Judge originally gave her another 30 days to respond which she did not do.

She showed up for court 1 1/2 hours late and asked to talk to the judge. He talked to her in chambers with no lawyers present for either side. He then issued a stay on his original ruling of this morning and gave custody back to the mom until they can set up another court date.

Should the judge have spoken to her about the case without my cousins lawyer present? Also can he just reverse his ruling like that without hearing from my cousins lawyer or giving him a chance to rebut her statement?

The judge Bowls on the same league as the mothers parents.
 


weenor

Senior Member
From your other posts, I did not get the impression that the judge reversed his holding he only agreed to allow the previously filed motions to be heard at hearing in the future. It is also possible that the judge only agreed to hear the issue of setting aside the default and if she wins, then will set a hearing on the merits of the case. Obviously the mother came up with a good reason for not being there either time...how would your cousin's lawyer have argued with her reasons on that issue? If the judge heard something on the merits of the case, that would have been improper, but simply allowing a hearing to proceed is not only proper but normal. That is why I posted what I did on your other thread. Judges do not like to change custody unless they can hear from both sides. This is not a money issue, but a child and they take that responsibility very seriously. I told you to expect some sort of motion to set the decision aside because there was a very real possibility that when she figured out she lost custody she would get a lawyer who would be in the judge's office before the end of the week to get some sort of hearing. Now your cousins' lawyer needs to contact the judge and find out if the hearing will be arguments to set aside the judgment or arguments on the custody/contempt issues.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
acmb05 said:
What is the name of your state? Tennesee

My cousin went to court this morning and got custody of his daughter. The mother did not show up and this is also the second court date for this as the Judge originally gave her another 30 days to respond which she did not do.

She showed up for court 1 1/2 hours late and asked to talk to the judge. He talked to her in chambers with no lawyers present for either side. He then issued a stay on his original ruling of this morning and gave custody back to the mom until they can set up another court date.

Should the judge have spoken to her about the case without my cousins lawyer present? Also can he just reverse his ruling like that without hearing from my cousins lawyer or giving him a chance to rebut her statement?

The judge Bowls on the same league as the mothers parents.
Why did you lock your other thread? I went to the trouble to answer your question including this quesiton already. There is no misconduct on the part of the judge.

Acmb05 Why did you lock your thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1323457
acmb05 said:
Wow are you confused.
No, I am not confused.

The judge was going to do the contempt motion at the same time as the original hearing for the move away.
Judges don't "DO/make motions" they hear motions. It would have been your cousin's attorney who would have made the motion for contempt if there were grounds and then the judge would have set a date for the contempt to be heard. If the Judge had ruled on it at that time, that would have been lack of due proces.

I am not filling in anything I have been talking to my cousin. [/qoute] As I said, this is 3rd hand and lacks facts.
I am telling you exactly what happened.
According to your cousin who in not an objective party.

My Aunt has a right to testify but the way she was putting it was she would have a say so in what happens.
That would all depend on the content of her testimoney.

I have no idea where you got the idea she would be testifying against her son but she would ot be she was going to testify FOR her son.
Then why do you object to her testimony? If she was there to testify on behalf of her son, don't you think his attorney would have asked the court to wait for her to arrive or provided a declaration of some sort?

I am not goin to go into the illness as the judge knows all about it. He bowls on the same league as the mothers parents and has first hand knowledge of the illness.
And your cousin's attorney didn't ask to have the judge removed for prejudice? Actually that is not first hand knowledge of the disease. BTW people do die of skin cancer just in case you believe it is not serious and people react in different ways to treatment, sometimes well after treatment is finished.

Now there has been a kink in the order already as the mother showed up for court 1 1/2 hours late and spoke to the judge in chambers without any lawyers present and judge has now stayed his ruling until another court date can be set.
As you may well know, persons with disabilities may request ADA accommodations, these requests are ex parte and confidential and the other party or their counsel is not privy to them, that is why there were no attorney's present, just in case you think the judge can't stay the order.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
weenor said:
From your other posts, I did not get the impression that the judge reversed his holding he only agreed to allow the previously filed motions to be heard at hearing in the future. It is also possible that the judge only agreed to hear the issue of setting aside the default and if she wins, then will set a hearing on the merits of the case. Obviously the mother came up with a good reason for not being there either time...how would your cousin's lawyer have argued with her reasons on that issue? If the judge heard something on the merits of the case, that would have been improper, but simply allowing a hearing to proceed is not only proper but normal. That is why I posted what I did on your other thread. Judges do not like to change custody unless they can hear from both sides. This is not a money issue, but a child and they take that responsibility very seriously. I told you to expect some sort of motion to set the decision aside because there was a very real possibility that when she figured out she lost custody she would get a lawyer who would be in the judge's office before the end of the week to get some sort of hearing. Now your cousins' lawyer needs to contact the judge and find out if the hearing will be arguments to set aside the judgment or arguments on the custody/contempt issues.

The problem was she still does not have a lawyer. She talked to the judge in private. He also gave custody to my cousin this morning.

He said this morning that he was awarding full custody to my cousin and even told him to go pick the child up immediately upon receiving the paperwork because the mother may try to move once she found out she lost custody.

There was no motion to set aside the order from this morning it was only her going and talking to the judge in private. There were no lawyers involved. No motions filed.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Why did you lock your other thread? I went to the trouble to answer your question including this quesiton already. There is no misconduct on the part of the judge.

Acmb05 Why did you lock your thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1323457
No, I am not confused.

Judges don't "DO/make motions" they hear motions. It would have been your cousin's attorney who would have made the motion for contempt if there were grounds and then the judge would have set a date for the contempt to be heard. If the Judge had ruled on it at that time, that would have been lack of due proces.

I am not filling in anything I have been talking to my cousin. [/qoute] As I said, this is 3rd hand and lacks facts.
According to your cousin who in not an objective party.

That would all depend on the content of her testimoney.

Then why do you object to her testimony? If she was there to testify on behalf of her son, don't you think his attorney would have asked the court to wait for her to arrive or provided a declaration of some sort?

And your cousin's attorney didn't ask to have the judge removed for prejudice? Actually that is not first hand knowledge of the disease. BTW people do die of skin cancer just in case you believe it is not serious and people react in different ways to treatment, sometimes well after treatment is finished.

As you may well know, persons with disabilities may request ADA accommodations, these requests are ex parte and confidential and the other party or their counsel is not privy to them, that is why there were no attorney's present, just in case you think the judge can't stay the order.
I locked it because you kept asking the same question and I got tired of answering it. You can ask it 10 different ways and the answer is the same.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
Why did you lock your other thread? I went to the trouble to answer your question including this quesiton already. There is no misconduct on the part of the judge.

Acmb05 Why did you lock your thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1323457
No, I am not confused.

Judges don't "DO/make motions" they hear motions. It would have been your cousin's attorney who would have made the motion for contempt if there were grounds and then the judge would have set a date for the contempt to be heard. If the Judge had ruled on it at that time, that would have been lack of due proces.

My cousins lawyer is the one who filed the motion for contempt. It was going to be heard at the same time as the custody hearing.

I am not filling in anything I have been talking to my cousin. [/qoute] As I said, this is 3rd hand and lacks facts.
According to your cousin who in not an objective party.

That would all depend on the content of her testimoney.

Then why do you object to her testimony? If she was there to testify on behalf of her son, don't you think his attorney would have asked the court to wait for her to arrive or provided a declaration of some sort?

For the third time he did not object to her testimony it was her attitude going into court that was thought could hurt his case. As you well know grandparents have no rights in this situation and she has the attitude that she does have rights. If she went in there acting as she normally does and try to butt in I am sure the judge would have put a stop to it anyway and it would not have looked good for my cousin.

And your cousin's attorney didn't ask to have the judge removed for prejudice? Actually that is not first hand knowledge of the disease. BTW people do die of skin cancer just in case you believe it is not serious and people react in different ways to treatment, sometimes well after treatment is finished.

Actually my cousins attorney did not know this until this morning. I know people die from it I am not an idiot. I have never said it was not serious.

As you may well know, persons with disabilities may request ADA accommodations, these requests are ex parte and confidential and the other party or their counsel is not privy to them, that is why there were no attorney's present, just in case you think the judge can't stay the order.
Since she is not on disibility no she cannot request it. However since no one knows what she told the judge in private including my cousins attorney who's to say what she told him.

Btw his lawyer is filing to have him removed from the case.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
Rmet since the only reason you respond to any of my threads is to try to beat me down or bring up issues that have no relevance to the case at hand, You also insist on bringing up my prior court case in matters that they have no business being in. Then I would prefer you just dont answer my post.

If you have something worthwile to add to my post then go ahead but lets keep your personal opinion of me out of it.
 

weenor

Senior Member
acmb05 said:
The problem was she still does not have a lawyer. She talked to the judge in private. He also gave custody to my cousin this morning.

He said this morning that he was awarding full custody to my cousin and even told him to go pick the child up immediately upon receiving the paperwork because the mother may try to move once she found out she lost custody.

There was no motion to set aside the order from this morning it was only her going and talking to the judge in private. There were no lawyers involved. No motions filed.
The judge took her request as an oral motion. I know this is frustrating, but since she doesn't have a lawyer so she is representing herself pro se and that is how the judge took it. Again if the judge heard her argument about why she didn't show, there was nothing for your cousin's lawyer to argue (unless the lawyer has evidence to refute why she wasn't there). There was nothing improper about giving her a new hearing date- we just don't what type of hearing as yet- Judges will bend over backwards to make sure they hear from both sides in custody cases, especially if one or both of the parties is pro se, because the judge knows they don't know what they are doing. I have defended a couple of correctional facilities against claims from pro se prisoners and the judges do everything they can to let them have their day in court.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
weenor said:
The judge took her request as an oral motion. I know this is frustrating, but since she doesn't have a lawyer so she is representing herself pro se and that is how the judge took it. Again if the judge heard her argument about why she didn't show, there was nothing for your cousin's lawyer to argue (unless the lawyer has evidence to refute why she wasn't there). There was nothing improper about giving her a new hearing date- we just don't what type of hearing as yet- Judges will bend over backwards to make sure they hear from both sides in custody cases, especially if one or both of the parties is pro se, because the judge knows they don't know what they are doing. I have defended a couple of correctional facilities against claims from pro se prisoners and the judges do everything they can to let them have their day in court.
Thank you. I guess he will just have to wait it out again.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
acmb05 said:
rmet4nzkx said:
Why did you lock your other thread? I went to the trouble to answer your question including this question already. There is no misconduct on the part of the judge.

Acmb05 Why did you lock your thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1323457
No, I am not confused.

Judges don't "DO/make motions" they hear motions. It would have been your cousin's attorney who would have made the motion for contempt if there were grounds and then the judge would have set a date for the contempt to be heard. If the Judge had ruled on it at that time, that would have been lack of due proces.



I locked it because you kept asking the same question and I got tired of answering it. You can ask it 10 different ways and the answer is the same.
You were not answering the questions, you were repeating the same thing that raised the question in the first place. Your use and understanding of language lacks clarity.

you said.
The judge was going to do the contempt motion at the same time as the original hearing for the move away.
You said the JUDGE, not the attorney made the motion and the judge cannot hear a contempt motion at the original hearing because there would have to be appropriate notice on the other party. I understand you want to go directly from A to Z but you have to focus on what you are saying.
 

seniorjudge

Senior Member
acmb05 said:
What is the name of your state? Tennesee

My cousin went to court this morning and got custody of his daughter. The mother did not show up and this is also the second court date for this as the Judge originally gave her another 30 days to respond which she did not do.

She showed up for court 1 1/2 hours late and asked to talk to the judge. He talked to her in chambers with no lawyers present for either side. He then issued a stay on his original ruling of this morning and gave custody back to the mom until they can set up another court date.

Should the judge have spoken to her about the case without my cousins lawyer present? Also can he just reverse his ruling like that without hearing from my cousins lawyer or giving him a chance to rebut her statement?

The judge Bowls on the same league as the mothers parents.

Based SOLELY on the information in this post (I am not going to read all your prior posts) this is gross misconduct on the part of the judge.
 

rmet4nzkx

Senior Member
acmb05 said:
rmet4nzkx said:
Why did you lock your other thread? I went to the trouble to answer your question including this quesiton already. There is no misconduct on the part of the judge.

Acmb05 Why did you lock your thread?
https://forum.freeadvice.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1323457
No, I am not confused.

Judges don't "DO/make motions" they hear motions. It would have been your cousin's attorney who would have made the motion for contempt if there were grounds and then the judge would have set a date for the contempt to be heard. If the Judge had ruled on it at that time, that would have been lack of due proces.

My cousins lawyer is the one who filed the motion for contempt. It was going to be heard at the same time as the custody hearing.



Since she is not on disibility no she cannot request it. However since no one knows what she told the judge in private including my cousins attorney who's to say what she told him.
Attitude or not, your aunt's presense would have been helpful, the fact that his attorney rushed things through in order to get the default shows he didn't want her available to be questioned or he didn't want to risk waiting in case mom showed up later.

Just because the judge knows relatives of the parties does not mean they have to resuse themselves. Don't you think that if he had been biased he would have ruled differently?

You do not have to be on disability to request ADA accommodations.
http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/geninfo/ADA/IndexADA.htm
The Americans with Disabilities Act prohibits discrimination against any qualified individual with a disability. The Tennessee Judicial Branch does not permit discrimination against any individual on the basis of physical or mental disability in accessing its judicial programs. In accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act, if neccessary, the Tennessee Judicial Branch will provide reasonable accommodations in order to permit access to all of its programs, services and activities to persons with qualified individuals with disabilities.
it is up to the judge or ada coordinator as to the qualification and the accommodation, not you or his attorney, nor is it grounds to challenge a judge, it is an administrative order, done ex parte.

Btw his lawyer is filing to have him removed from the case.
See this is where you create confusion, there is no verb subject agreement, WHO is is lawyer asking to be removed from the case, the attorney who is the only subject you mention in your statement, or the judge who is not mentioned at all?
 

acmb05

Senior Member
rmet4nzkx said:
acmb05 said:
Attitude or not, your aunt's presense would have been helpful, the fact that his attorney rushed things through in order to get the default shows he didn't want her available to be questioned or he didn't want to risk waiting in case mom showed up later.

OMG how many times have you or others here said that a person who is not party to the case should keep thier mouth shut.

Just because the judge knows relatives of the parties does not mean they have to resuse themselves. Don't you think that if he had been biased he would have ruled differently?

Actually know I dont think he realized who she was until she got there as he did not know her married name.

You do not have to be on disability to request ADA accommodations.
http://www.tsc.state.tn.us/geninfo/ADA/IndexADA.htm it is up to the judge or ada coordinator as to the qualification and the accommodation, not you or his attorney, nor is it grounds to challenge a judge, it is an administrative order, done ex parte.

See this is where you create confusion, there is no verb subject agreement, WHO is is lawyer asking to be removed from the case, the attorney who is the only subject you mention in your statement, or the judge who is not mentioned at all?
Your kidding right????? The judge is what this whole thread is about.

As I said before, YOU need to take your bias against me and just stay off the thread because you have completely twisted anything I say to you to fit your agenda towards me, YOU asked me a question on the last post and I answered it but since it was not to your liking you keep insisting I did not answer it.
 

acmb05

Senior Member
you see Rmet you asked this question:

rmet4nzkx said:
You say mom was duly notified of the court action, exactly what do you mean by that?
You stated this in post number 7 and in post number 8 I responded with.

acmb05 said:
Mom was duly notified by the courts of the action against her and told she had 30 days to respond and that if she could not afford an attorney that one would be appointed to her. She did not respond in that 30 day period and judge issued a 30 day continuance and she was notified if she did not respond or have a lawyer respond in the 30 days she would be held n contempt. She still did not respond and contemp issue was going to be dealt with this morning when they got to court for the custody modification. She did not show up nor respond in any way to the order.
I also informed you that she was served her supeona at her home on two seperate occasions.

So what exactly do you want? would you just like me to quote the supeona she was given? would that satisfy you. She was served and received both of them this is a fact. I answered your question but in order to do it the way you expect would take me 3 pages and really it is not needed because the basic question was answered already.

Of course I could just get you copies of all the court transcripts then you can read it, then you can come back here and explain what you think is going on.
 

garrula lingua

Senior Member
This Judge should have recused himself, once he realized he knew the woman's parents socially.

Also, that was incorrect of the Judge to interview the woman in his chambers.
The ADA doesn't enter into it - this was a very poor, very inappropriate thing for the Judge to do.

That was ex parte communication - unethical and against judicial canons in all states.

Your cousin's atty is in an odd place - if s/he files a Motion to Recuse the Judge, he will probably be sent to a second Judge, sympathetic to Judge #1. But, if atty doesn't get out of that court, the atty is stuck with a biased Judge.
Personally, I'd file a Motion to Recuse & document what the Judge did.

My understanding of the ADA is that it was intended to allow access & provide accommodation to that end... it was never meant to diminish the Cousin's rights or rewrite the law and claim a 'disabled' person was involved, so it is OK for the Judge to violate ethical standards.

One problem I see is that the appearance by the woman is not 'on record'. She shows up, goes into the Judge's chamber & things change, with no record/transcript. Even more reason for cousin's atty to document this unethical act by the Judge - that's the only way it will be memorialized.
 

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