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Electric co's equipment improperly installed. A week later oil spills all over car.

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Six Black Roses

Junior Member
This legal question applies to a property damage mishap which occured in California.

Here's what happened:

On a certain, recent, Monday, repairs were conducted, by a local electric company, on a transformer atop a distributor pole which electricity is drawn from. These repairs were necessary because that transformer ruptured in a loud, flamboyant explosion, rendering the residents in the immediate area without electrical power.

Sometime between the manufacturing of the replacement unit and/or replacement parts, and the time of installation, the repairman dispatched by the electrical company has incorrectly performed the repairs, or has failed to notice the arbitrary nature of the [presumably faulty] transformer and/or the parts necessary for the repair.

It is undetermined if the repairman of this electric company's choosing was incompetent at the time of said repair, or if the electric company did not take whatever necessary and reasonable steps it should have taken to ensure the authenticity of the equipment and hence the safety of the many pedestrians travelling on the sidewalk under that transformer, and to ensure that no property damage occurs which very well could have been avoided had the electric company taken those steps.

On the hot Sunday evening, just following that Monday, my mother's luxury car was legally parked on the side of the road across one of my mother's properties, and there were left two small openings in the windows to avoid the heat buildup which any physician would deem not particularly healthy for any human being. Anyway, sometime between 6:30 PM and 10:00 PM, the [mineral, as I was told the electric company's representative said] oil spilled out, in a quick, bursting method, but the rupture was significantly different--quiet, inaudible, even! This was a leak, not a detonation caused in part by electrical energy.

The temperature during that Sunday evening was extremely hot, enough to cause heat stroke in most human beings. The mineral oil that sat in the transformer was most definitely not cooler than the air temperature, and was enough to jeopardize the well-being of a humab being if it would come in contact with skin.

What if, could have, and might've are never things that'll hold up in court, unless there are laws explicitly commanding that precautions be taken to avoid the potential what-if. More on this a tad later.

The roof and hood, and of course, windshield were all drenched in oil, making the vehicle unsafe to operate including because of, but not limited to, the severely blurred view of the road in front of the car. There's oil inside the car, on the seats, the steering wheel, seatbelts, carpet, etc. There's oil under the hood that has caused smoke to come out from under it. There's oil on the engine compartment.

By the way, did I mention that the windshield wipers need to be replaced?

My sister came to my mother after receiving a phone call saying what happened. My sister then dialed this electic company's emergency hotline, and finally at approximately 1:00 AM (now a Monday, one week from the time the repair was done) a representative of this company came out. Photographs were taken by the representative, and photographs were taken earlier by a neighboor. It was messy. The road was covered in oil.

The representative instructed my mother and sister to ask for a claims form. A Monday later, now two weeks after the repair, we got the claim form.

That is a story of an electric company's negligence.


And now a jump to the present. Ah, but what fine jump it is, indeed. Anyway...

1) Are there any laws in California that require electric company's to be responsible about this sort of thing? It's all grand that nobody came out with a scalded... scalp, but children are not to be left unattended in a daycare, even if no harm was done during the instance of absence. True, **** happens and employees **** up, but the fact that this happens a week after [insufficient] repairs are made won't make this electric company look good in court, right?

2) I took the car in for an estimate to have it cleaned, and the estimate came out to being just fifty bucks shy of an even thousand. This is what the "property" damage is at, assuming that after we clean the vehicle, it won't be then determined that the whole car needs a new coat of paint.

3) Due to the nature of my mother's self-employment, using her vehicle is crucial to getting things done, to get money, to feed herself, me, me, me, and my sister. My sister's kind of getting fat, but that's something a judge would most likely say is irrelevant. This means that if she cannot get to where she needs to be--walking isn't an option--she stands the inevitable risk of losing paying tenants. And if there are no paying tenants, she runs the risk of losing some of the houses she owns because they're not all yet fully paid for. It's true, she's self-employed.

But here's the tricky bit... she works only about 1008 hours per year. Though it's true that she isn't losing a penny in practice, she now is nevertheless facing lost earning capacity. The hours that she could have allocated for business purposes, she now has to allocate to getting this mess cleaned up. And at nearly $120/hr, her time is money. And as of now, she's had a good 8 to 10 hours taken from her life, hours she'll never, ever get back, hours that she was without the car she should have otherwise been using for business purposes during those hours.

If this has merit, will it be persuasive to mention in the claim letter that additional spent time going back-and-forth will more or less simply end up costing the company more?

4) The body shop at Toyota estimated that the car will be there for two to three days, just to get it cleaned. This means that my mother will have to incur another expense, which is to rent a comparable, luxury car (why should she be forced to give up the comforts of what she's accustomed to, just because an electric company hired a moron, or assigned an otherwise smart man with installing faulty equipment?). I printed out a quote from Avis saying it'll be $500 for three days. Oh yes, there's insurance. Why should she have to drive without insurance when her Toyota is happily insured, albeit filthy? Will they tell us to go screw ourselves, or will they settle to avoid the hassle of going to court?

5) My mother's is not informed of her rights, whatever they may be, so she seeks out the help of someone who might let her know. I know that I cannot practice law because I don't have the paper which lets me, but I'm not sure on whether or not I'm allowed to give legal advise, if unprofessionally. And even then, where's the line between I'm-just-someone-doing-research-for-you-even-if-it-happens-to-be-of-legal-nature and Mr. Devils Advocate?

Can I charge her for this? If so, what rate can I get away with? Don't say five bucks an hour, and most definitely don't say "100k/hr-mwahahaha".

Can I put "consultation with legal advisor: $XXX" and not risk doing something illegal myself in doing so? Or would "legal advice: $XXX" be more advantageous as far as liability issues are concerned?

6 Her skin came in contact with this oil, which may or may not be detrimental to her health. Anything here that I could cleverly word to get a settlement? I already have a speeding ticket to worry about, and I don't want to tie up my time in court for this kind of trivial thing.

7 Now don't laugh, but the gasoline which was consumed while travelling to the car dealership just 17-20 minutes away totalled to being... $11.94544, according to my calculations. This is gasoline she wouldn't have to blow money on if only the electric company didn't install defective equipment, or have equipement incorrectly installed. This gasoline costs money. This is money my mother would get to keep, plain and simple, if it weren't for the negligence of this electric company. Will they think this is cute, or will they think we have a tedious monster of a lawyer working with us?

Thank you, thank you all.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
Prove the installation was defective or the equipment was KNOWN to be or should he been known to be defective and you miight have a claim to some of the money lost.

Your mom has a requirement to mitigate her damages so the lost wages are out the window. If she had to have a car, she could rent one and that woul elimnate the lost wages. As well, lost wages have to be actual lost wages, not,"since she makes xxx dollares per year and she works about xx hours per year, she lost xxx dollars" That won't cut it. The wages need to be documentable losses.

As well, I don't know what model of car mom has but I can't think of any with a Toyota label on them that would be considered luxo barges. If it was T's upscale brethren (Lexus) this would make some difference but not much. If you are paying $500 bucks for three days, I suggest you are getting ripped off.


5) My mother's is not informed of her rights, whatever they may be, so she seeks out the help of someone who might let her know. I know that I cannot practice law because I don't have the paper which lets me, but I'm not sure on whether or not I'm allowed to give legal advise, if unprofessionally. And even then, where's the line between I'm-just-someone-doing-research-for-you-even-if-it-happens-to-be-of-legal-nature and Mr. Devils Advocate?

Can I charge her for this? If so, what rate can I get away with? Don't say five bucks an hour, and most definitely don't say "100k/hr-mwahahaha".
You can advise mom any way you wish. She is your mom. As far aas charging? Don;t even think about it. Then you are playing attorney and it will be you breaking any laws nobody else. A well, unless you "advise" folks for a living, you aren't getting paid for talking with mom.

6 Her skin came in contact with this oil, which may or may not be detrimental to her health. Anything here that I could cleverly word to get a settlement? I already have a speeding ticket to worry about, and I don't want to tie up my time in court for this kind of trivial thing.
It's mineral oil. Old old trnsformers did have pcb's in them but theose transformers are far and few between anymore. Unless you can prove there is something detrimaental in the oil, your looking up the wrong tree for the 'coon here.

7 Now don't laugh, but the gasoline which was consumed while travelling to the car dealership just 17-20 minutes away totalled to being... $11.94544, according to my calculations. This is gasoline she wouldn't have to blow money on if only the electric company didn't install defective equipment, or have equipement incorrectly installed. This gasoline costs money. This is money my mother would get to keep, plain and simple, if it weren't for the negligence of this electric company. Will they think this is cute, or will they think we have a tedious monster of a lawyer working with us?
If this is that big of a deal for you, I would ask for it although $12 bucks for 20 minutes driving in a Toyota?? With all their claims of high mileage. If you drove 70 mph for 20 minutes the greatest distance you could have traveled is 24 miles. If you got only 10 mpg you would have used 2.4 gallons. Even in todays record prices (we'll arbitrarily use $3.15 per gallon) it would only be $7.56. Not sure how you would ever come up with $12 for gas but it appears very unreasonable. If you start asking for unreasonable things, they are going to balk at even the deserved money and actually make you spend money to get anything revocered.

The utilities often pay (without too much gripe) for items they are actually at fault for. If you start playing games, they have alot of money to play games with as well.


Prove their liability and mom will get what she deserves.


That is a story of an electric company's negligence.
That is a very large statement and you have shown (and apparently have) absultely no evidence to back up that statement. They will probably take care of actual expenses without an arguement. It is more cost effective for them to do so but if you get stupid (legal fees for your advice?? ya right) they will become defensive and make you prove every penny of claim and prove their responsibility. That is going to cost you unrecoverable money.

Wake up and smell the coffee. Don't try to make a mountain out of a molehill. It will end up hurting you in the end.
 

Six Black Roses

Junior Member
My brother got $10,000 for his van that got a scratch on it. Literally, a scratch. Not even the kind you'd get from being keyed. He's not a lawyer, but has a way with technicalities and calm, politically correct... negotiation. I mean, the guy got $18,000 from his employer at a cable company after his knees started hurting because of having to crawl on them in accordance to the inherent requirements of the job.

Hell, after spending half a day with my head in the California Vehicle Code, I've come across a legal technicality that is so stupidly flawed that I had to check, and double-check to make sure it's not too good to be true. According to what it says in the authoritative CVC, going over the speed limit is illegal. As long as you don't give a testimony, any evidence presented against you will be rendered inadmissable in court, and the witness (officer) will be considered an incompetent witness... all because of this one legal technicality. The judge could know you were going 97 MPH, the officer could know you were going 97 MPH, and the smirk on your face could tell everyone you were going 97 MPH. But the prosecution needs to to present evidence and witness, both of which are now invalid, and the judge cannot admit that evidence without forfeiting jurisdiction. I know what you're thinking--the guy won't show up with the paperwork evidence supporting calibration, blah, blah, blah, because it costs them too much money? Yes, and no. Yes, that's what usually happens, but no, this technicality isn't dependent on the absence of evidence... all because it will be made inadmissable, the officer an incompetent witness, and the prosecution nude. The judge, as I've mentioned, cannot accept that inadmissable evidence.

I love that blue book! It's the best $7 I've ever spent.

Now, getting back on the issue at hand.

The possibility that E-co followed rules and guidelines during the installation and repair of the equipment does not make the incident an act of God or an act of war. I'm not sure how other states are with this kind of thing, but here in California if your car rolls off your driveway in the middle of the night and hits your neighboor's shiny sports car, YOU will be held legally liable, even if you've taken precautions such as making sure to set the e-brake.

- The E-co sent out a crew to clean up the oil spill in the street, and I'm certain it wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts that they did this.

- My mother had to take time out of her schedule to deliver the car to the Toyota dealership, wait for them to arrive at an estimate, and spend time driving to and back from the dealership. She will have to repeat some of that process when the car will be again delivered to actually get it cleaned. There is nothing she could have done aside from, perhaps, hiring somebody to deliver the car for her and get things out of the way. If you get $10,000 dollars from an insurance company and you don't get the damages fixed, that's none of their business. If my mother "knows somebody" who would offer to do the necessary things for free because of being friends with them, that's not to be any of E-co's business. The damages were done, and compensation is necessary. If my mother decides to donate this car to charity a day after she gets compensated by E-co, E-co can't turn around and say, "But you're not even using the funds to fix the damages."

- It's a Toyota Avalon. Not what I personally would call a luxury, but a lot keep referring to it as the Lexus with Toyota branding. The rental includes insurance for the three days. The base price is $340 for those three days.

- Lost wages don't have to be actual lost wages. They're not referred to as lost wages. It's called lost earning capacity. What this means is that even if you don't lose a penny because you called in sick and are paid for days you're sick, you still have the right to the wages that you'd otherwise have been earning. She's self-employed and has the paperwork to support that she makes an unmistakable six figures in gross. Another thing to mention is that you need to look at your gross income, not your net--for even though you might not get to keep the full gross, it's not like your bills and business expenses shrink.

- We only use premium gasoline, 91 octane. True, higher octane is overkill for engines that don't have high enough a compression ratio, but that doesn't change the fact that my mother fills up in accordance to what the dashboard says: "Premium Fuel Recommended." It has seen 3.31/g today. 20 minutes there, 20 minutes back. That's for the estimate. Then another 20 minutes there, 20 minutes back to finally get it detailed. The mileage on this thing is 21 MPG in the city, 29 on Highway, and a simple average of 25 MPG. Fact of the matter is that this is not an expense my mother would be incurring if it wasn't for E-co's faulty transformer.
 
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justalayman

Senior Member
Six Black Roses said:
My brother got $10,000 for his van that got a scratch on it. Literally, a scratch. Not even the kind you'd get from being keyed
.Nothing to do with this situation though.

Hell, after spending half a day with my head in the California Vehicle Code,
That's not quite where I was thinking your head was.

I've come across a legal technicality that is so stupidly flawed that I had to check,. As long as you don't give a testimony, any evidence presented against you will be rendered inadmissable in court, and the witness (officer) will be considered an incompetent witness..
I'll call you on this one. Post the code and section.




The possibility that E-co followed rules and guidelines during the installation and repair of the equipment does not make the incident an act of God or an act of war
. Didn't say it did. Just said if you are going to try for all this, you have to prove that it was negligence. There is a difference between an act of God and negligence.

I'm not sure how other states are with this kind of thing, but here in California if your car rolls off your driveway in the middle of the night and hits your neighboor's shiny sports car, YOU will be held legally liable, even if you've taken precautions such as making sure to set the e-brake.
It would depend upon why it rolled. Here again, negligence or act of God or possibly defective engineering. All possibilities..

- The E-co sent out a crew to clean up the oil spill in the street, and I'm certain it wasn't out of the goodness of their hearts that they did this.
Of course. At this point, even if it was not their negligence the oil leaked, if they do not take care of it now, it will become there liablity at this point.

- My mother had to take time out of her schedule
But did she lose money because of it?? It doesn't sound like it. The time you speak of is generally not recoverable unless it causes an actual loss of money.

If you get $10,000 dollars from an insurance company and you don't get the damages fixed, that's none of their business
.True but what does this have to do with anything? If mom has a lein on the vehicle though, it will be required to have it fixed per her contract with the loan company.

, "But you're not even using the funds to fix the damages."
You right. The money is to "make her whole", not to repair the car. It is the value, not the repair that gets paid for.

- It's a Toyota Avalon. Not what I personally would call a luxury, but a lot keep referring to it as the Lexus with Toyota branding. The rental includes insurance for the three days. The base price is $340 for those three days.
CHeck again. Your close but still high.

- Lost wages don't have to be actual lost wages. They're not referred to as lost wages. It's called lost earning capacity.
Your mom has not lost earning capacity, she would at best, have lost income. Earning capacity is just what it says, you no longer have the ability to earn what you could before. It is for injuries to the person not a vehicle. Additionally, if she rents a car, she has no lost income at all. So give this one up. If she fails to rent a car and this results in lost income, she still won't get it because she is required to mitigate her damages. By failing to rent a car, she has failed to mitigate her damages..


She's self-employed and has the paperwork to support that she makes an unmistakable six figures in gross. Another thing to mention is that you need to look at your gross income, not your net--for even though you might not get to keep the full gross, it's not like your bills and business expenses shrink.
She will have to prove actual losses, what if's and I coulda aren't worth anything in court.

You might as well go for the gas 'cuz she ain't getting loss of income let alone "loss of earning capacity".

Post that section of the Cali code about the testimony for us , would ya?
 

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